The 4 best attributes for a wrestler

[Andrew is Good]

The look
The work
The talk
The charisma

Discussion time. Who has all 4? Who has made it the furthest with the least. Who has what.

I was thinking about this while listening to the Who's Slamming Who main podcast, and they talked about how Sheamus had the look, and time will tell what else he has. And then I thought about Jamie Noble, who definitely has the talk and the work down, but never had the look or the charisma to attract a crowd's attention.

Roddy Piper had the work, the charisma and the talk, but didn't have quite the look. Hogan had the look, the charisma and the talk, but didn't quite have the work.

Kurt Angle, The Rock, Mr. Perfect, and probably others definitely have all 4.

Who's got what?

[strykerdarksilence]

It's pretty subjective though. I'd say Piper had a great look and that ALL Rock had was the look.

[Tfmcmg is Johnny Green]

Austin is sort of weird because austin had the look and the charisma but he either A. Had the talk as Stone Cold or B. The Work as Stunning Steve Austin but he never heard the work or the talk as the other one which I find strange.Though I think alot of it was the neck injury.

[TOK Is the Target Demo]

Austin had all 4. People seriously overlook his in-ring work as Stone Cold, he still could go technically, shown by his match with Taker at Unforgiven(?) in 2000. Most of the time, though, it doesn't make sense for a violent bully like SCSA to be applying wristlocks and chain wrestling.

And Foley had that crazy, psycho look, not to mention the other 3 in spades. I'd put him up there.

[hbk4ever09]

Shawn Michaels.
Angle
Savage
--------------------------
Everyone else.

[efarns]

I agree with:
Savage - to me, the best all-arounder ever
The Rock - his in ring work was the weakest of the 4, but it was still very solid.
Brian Pillman had all that

and . . . how about Ricky Morton? His work was great. He was a great talker. The R'n'R Express is the pinup tag team of the 80's.

Nov 13, 2009 22:09:32 GMT -5 TOK Is the Target Demo said:

Austin had all 4. People seriously overlook his in-ring work as Stone Cold, he still could go technically, shown by his match with Taker at Unforgiven(?) in 2000. Most of the time, though, it doesn't make sense for a violent bully like SCSA to be applying wristlocks and chain wrestling.

And Foley had that crazy, psycho look, not to mention the other 3 in spades. I'd put him up there.

I agree Steve's work doesn't get enough appreciation. He was a good enough worker that, when he had a lot of physical limitations, he knew how to work around it and still have good matches.

[jobberlybob]

Should be the top THREE attributes.
Talk/Charisma is the same thing, really. ( I mean, it's not like you'll give a guy 9 for charisma and a 3 for talking.)

[TripleMerc]

Nov 14, 2009 0:58:16 GMT -5 jobberlybob said:

(I mean, it's not like you'll give a guy 9 for charisma and a 3 for talking.)

I could name a few.

[Deleted]

Nov 14, 2009 0:58:16 GMT -5 jobberlybob said:

Should be the top THREE attributes.
Talk/Charisma is the same thing, really. ( I mean, it's not like you'll give a guy 9 for charisma and a 3 for talking.)

The Undertaker could have gone his entire career without uttering a word and still be among the most charismatic wrestlers of all time.

Charisma, by its definition, has more to do with power of presence an individual possesses and does not necessarily have to do with speaking (the OED's definition of Charisma does not mention speaking in its first definition, though it does in secondary ones) .

[Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan]

Hogan had the look, the charisma and the talk, but didn't quite have the work.

Granted these were in Japan. But to say Hogan "didn't quite have the work" is a blanket statement.

[quantum]

Bob Backlund got very far (to say the least) with non

I would say

Flair
Angle
HBK
Hart
Hogan
Savage
DiBiase

All had it all

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

The same people in that group are Angle, Flair, Sting, HBK, Austin, Savage, Disbiase, Perfect, and Hogan. Piper did have it all. His look yes he had it. The klit is what everyone knows him for wearing. There is a reason why he always had a monster reaction everytime he came out for anything. He was a great talker, He was a solid worker, and boy did he ever work a crowd during a match. Piper was another guy when he came out you knew something was going to happen. In the 80's most of all it was going to be a moment.

[Andrew is Good]

Nov 14, 2009 0:58:16 GMT -5 jobberlybob said:

Should be the top THREE attributes.
Talk/Charisma is the same thing, really. ( I mean, it's not like you'll give a guy 9 for charisma and a 3 for talking.)

Well, some guys connect with the crowd very well, but can't do that much talking. Bobby Lashley for example connects very well with the crowd, but can't talk. And while Sid does have half the brain you do, he has charisma coming from all sides.

[quantum]

I would also say that Owen Hart
Eddie Guerrero
Curt Henning
Rick Rude
and agree with Piper also of 'having it all'

[ritt works hard fo da chickens]

Matt and Jeff Hardy are the epitomes of 9s in charisma and 3s or less in the talk.

I think another HUGELY important and often overlooked aspect is the presentation. What makes you think of Randy savage the most and be honest, when someone does the flying elbow, the promos "Oh Yeah" or Pomp and Circumstance. Flair + Thus Spake Zarathustra, Goldberg and the shower of sparks, Sting dropping from the rafters, Hell Gangrel had no talk, average charisma, sub-par work, his look was good for what it was, but his presentation may have been the best they have done. Rey Mysterio's look is the same as in WCW, his work is probably less, his charisma is the same, his talk is the same, but he is presented so much better in WWE than he ever was in WCW, and I think that's why he can hang in the main events, because the crowds are hyped from the moment he comes out.

[brutuscheesecake]

How the hell did Orton get so far without having any of the 4?

[Citizen Snips]

These type of questions are great, but always get the same 10 guys or so. Let's dig deeper, folks!!!

-Jake Roberts had a good look, OK work with a great finisher, talk and charisma off the charts.

-Terry Funk had a good look from the neck up, fantastic work, talk and charisma

-For the gimmick he worked, I'd say Bruiser Brody went 4 for 4. Same with Stan Hansen. They looked and talked and worked like they could kick the bejeezus out of anyone. Throw Vader in there with them, maybe with less Talk points.

-Junkyard Dog had an OK look, mediocre work, good talk and INSANE charisma. He might be one of the guys that went farthest with not much.

-Sgt Slaughter. Real good look, so-so work, pretty good talk, fantastic charisma

-Jimmy Snuka. Great look, good work with a great finisher (in his prime), insanely bizarre talk, great charisma

-Sid Vicious. GREAT look and charisma, HORRIBLE work and talk.

-Bam Bam Bigelow. Great look and work, bleh talk, medium charisma.

-Big Bossman. Good look. Pretty good work, especially in his prime. Pretty good talker. Pretty good charisma.

[Bubble Lead]

Anyone saying talk and charisma are the same thing? No.

Theres in ring charisma, stuff like facial expressions and movement. Then theres talking.

A guy like Benoit for instance, had a lot of charisma in ring which is why he got reactions and connected with fans, but his promo work was never that great or interesting. Jeff Hardy, another good example.

Off the top of my head, guys with all four:

Angle, Foley, Austin, Rock, Hogan, HBK, Flair, Hennig, Jake Roberts, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Scott Hall, Hogan, Dibiase, Raven, Dusty Rhodes, Terry Funk, Piper, Savage.

Look at that list. All those guys were huge successes in their own right and top draws for the most part. A few of them were not as much a success as they could have been due to their personal problems. Any single one of those guys either were or could be the top guy in any promotion though.

[quantum]

Nov 15, 2009 10:36:45 GMT -5 Bubble Lead said:

Off the top of my head, guys with all four:

Angle, Foley, Austin, Rock, Hogan, HBK, Flair, Hennig, Jake Roberts, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Scott Hall, Hogan, Dibiase, Raven, Dusty Rhodes, Terry Funk, Piper, Savage.

Look at that list. All those guys were huge successes in their own right and top draws for the most part. A few of them were not as much a success as they could have been due to their personal problems. Any single one of those guys either were or could be the top guy in any promotion though.

I will agree with you on most however I would disagree that Foley and Terry Funk did not have the look and Dusty certainly did not either. That's one of the main reasons Dusty and Funk did not go to far when they were with the WWF. They did not have the correct look that a wrestler should have. Also I would say that is why Foley was never presented as the man either even in his short time at the top he was playing second fiddle to two guys who had all four in Rock and Austin.

Also Jericho's 'modern look' is very questionable with his gut. He did have all four I would say though a few years ago when he was more of a cruiser weight. Again I would say that's why Jericho has not gotten a bigger push and being playing second fiddle a lot of the time since his come back a few years back.

Jake Roberts most certainly had all four though and can;t believe I left him off my previous list.

[hbk4ever09]

Prime Kane (masked)- Look, charisma, work, and when he began to grunt and kinda talk the fans loved it.

Cena- Look, charisma, work (meh), talk. Yet they can't f***ing figure it out.