"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Dec 23, 2009 23:46:32 GMT -5
And for that matter, when does it go from "independent" to "major"?
Take the original ECW as an example: some people would say it was a "large indy," while others would call it the number-three promotion in the U.S. Which was it? Both?
Same with ROH: it has a TV deal, but is still regarded as an indy, but "won't be for long," or something.
I'm beginning to think "independent" means "not owned or run by Vince McMahon." ;D
It's all very confusing, so I turn to you, WCF members: what the hell differentiates "independents" from "major promotions"?
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Post by Nacho STAYS Hyped on Dec 23, 2009 23:53:38 GMT -5
If they aren't on network television or running PPVs, I'd say they're an indy.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 23, 2009 23:54:55 GMT -5
It started as "independent of the NWA" I believe but, now it seems to be any company that isn't running or seen nationally on a regular basis. ROH is a large indy in that they have a nationwide TV deal and (use to) have PPV but, were still seen by limited people, same as ECW.
I guess it would be something like this:
Major Promotions (Maximum visibility, little talent sharing and, a national presence): WWE TNA
Major Indy (National outlets but, not available to all, some talent sharing, limited touring radius but, growing): ROH DGUSA
Large Indy (No TV outlets but, huge DVD sales, Talent sharing among similar companies, limited touring radius) Chikara PWG CZW (maybe major if ION TV deal happens)
Just my opinion on the examples though.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Dec 24, 2009 0:00:48 GMT -5
CZW (maybe major if ION TV deal happens) Wait, ION TV, like the ex-Pax? (brain explodes)
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 24, 2009 0:06:54 GMT -5
CZW (maybe major if ION TV deal happens) Wait, ION TV, like the ex-Pax? (brain explodes) I think ION was the channel.
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Post by Davey is Awesome on Dec 24, 2009 0:32:23 GMT -5
Wait, ION TV, like the ex-Pax? (brain explodes) I think ION was the channel. Yeah it was/is. Last I heard it's like 2-3 in the morning on Sundays.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 24, 2009 2:14:32 GMT -5
These days it means that all (or most) of the wrestlers are not under exclusive contract to the promotion. I'm not up on ROH these days, so maybe they no longer technically qualify by that criterion.
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MAGGLE
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Post by MAGGLE on Dec 24, 2009 4:24:12 GMT -5
Hate that word, for me it is still territories
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Dec 24, 2009 5:32:40 GMT -5
It has kind of come to mean anything that is not WWE. Although agree with others that I dislike the term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2009 9:31:51 GMT -5
Indeed, it used to mean independent of the National Wrestling Alliance, but now it has no real meaning.
I don't see how ROH can be classified as independent when they have a national television deal (though the network does have limited clearance, it's still national television), runs regularly across the entire eastern half of the United States, into Toronto and Montreal in Canada, and has run England and Japan on more than one occasion, and has performers under contract. The only major differences between ROH and TNA is that TNA has a backer with deeper pockets, and is on a stronger cable channel. Oh, and ROH brings in more revenue from live event ticket sales than TNA does.
DGUSA has run what, three events? But they're a "major independent," while PWG, which has run for over six years now and sold more tickets, isn't? How do you figure?
XCW in Texas ran PPVs, much like DGUSA is. Does that make XCW in Texas on par with them?
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Dec 24, 2009 10:57:20 GMT -5
I tend to think independent means they're not really beholden to anyone. Local feds without TV deals don't have advertisers, sponsors, executives, etc. they have to please, so they're free to present whatever product they choose. The only people they're "beholden to" are their fans.
WWE has tons of advertisers and network execs to answer to. Same with TNA. As for ROH, now that they have a deal with HDNet, I'm sure they have executives somewhere they have to keep happy. As such, I wouldn't consider them "independent" anymore.
The biggest reason the word probably came to almost mean "not WWE," was because until the last few years, WWE was the only promotion big enough to actually HAVE sponsors or networks or executives....or whatever.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 24, 2009 11:01:35 GMT -5
I don't see how ROH can be classified as independent when they have a national television deal (though the network does have limited clearance, it's still national television), runs regularly across the entire eastern half of the United States, into Toronto and Montreal in Canada, and has run England and Japan on more than one occasion, and has performers under contract. The only major differences between ROH and TNA is that TNA has a backer with deeper pockets, and is on a stronger cable channel. Oh, and ROH brings in more revenue from live event ticket sales than TNA does. First, TNA is running a lot more house shows than they use to and charge a lot more than ROH so I don't know that ROH brings in more live revenue. Second, TNA holds world wide tours while ROH barely gets out of the Northeast/Midwest. I like ROH but, they are a hell of a lot smaller than TNA and quite frankly are no where near a major promotion. DGUSA is partnered with a top Japanese promotion, is planning to tour more places and has nationwide exposure thanks to PPV. PWG does not have any of that. No. They have no nationwide touring, aren't even big in Texas are are now closed down, they are not and were not on par with DGUSA. Nevermind the face that their PPVs had extremely limited exposure. Part of how I classified them is based on perceived financial stability and their name value.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 24, 2009 11:11:40 GMT -5
I don't see how ROH can be classified as independent when they have a national television deal (though the network does have limited clearance, it's still national television), runs regularly across the entire eastern half of the United States, into Toronto and Montreal in Canada, and has run England and Japan on more than one occasion, and has performers under contract. The only major differences between ROH and TNA is that TNA has a backer with deeper pockets, and is on a stronger cable channel. Oh, and ROH brings in more revenue from live event ticket sales than TNA does. First, TNA is running a lot more house shows than they use to and charge a lot more than ROH so I don't know that ROH brings in more live revenue. Second, TNA holds world wide tours while ROH barely gets out of the Northeast/Midwest. I like ROH but, they are a hell of a lot smaller than TNA and quite frankly are no where near a major promotion. TNA has no live gates for shows at the iMPACT! Zone, which is where like 75% or more of their shows take place, since its free with admission to the Universal Studios, and damn near every city they go to in the US outside of Orlando they don't come close to selling out even half of the arena (and if its a pay-per-view a large number of the tickets are given away for free the day to try and fill up the audience). also, when they run overseas they always hold it with another, local promotion and split the profits to the tickets.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Dec 25, 2009 7:37:00 GMT -5
Not being WWE or TNA
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Post by xtremehorseman on Dec 25, 2009 18:47:19 GMT -5
The CZW deal was with ION and was supposed air at 2 pm the Sunday before every CZW show but did not air do to problems with the FCC. According to DJ Hyde the deal is still on and the show should air soon.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Dec 26, 2009 1:07:11 GMT -5
CZW (maybe major if ION TV deal happens) Wait, ION TV, like the ex-Pax? (brain explodes) It is a messed up deal after all.
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Thrillho
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Post by Thrillho on Dec 26, 2009 1:51:27 GMT -5
Not owned by a larger company or publicly traded.
Also, "Major" is not the opposite of "Independent"
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Dec 26, 2009 21:28:15 GMT -5
Not owned by a larger company or publicly traded. Also, "Major" is not the opposite of "Independent" Enlighten me, please. What is the opposite? Dependent?
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Thrillho
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Post by Thrillho on Dec 27, 2009 0:01:33 GMT -5
Not owned by a larger company or publicly traded. Also, "Major" is not the opposite of "Independent" Enlighten me, please. What is the opposite? Dependent? I suppose it is. What I'm saying is, if somehow it happened that Vince McMahon came into possession of 100% of WWE tomorrow, it wouldn't stop WWE being a major company, even though it would be independent.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
You couldn't ask for a better custom title!
How do you spell "Goddess"? C-H-R-I-S-T-Y!
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Dec 27, 2009 9:25:14 GMT -5
Enlighten me, please. What is the opposite? Dependent? I suppose it is. What I'm saying is, if somehow it happened that Vince McMahon came into possession of 100% of WWE tomorrow, it wouldn't stop WWE being a major company, even though it would be independent. I think I get what you're saying. That makes sense.
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