Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 1:43:46 GMT -5
This thread begins and ends with Rey Mysterio for me. Through booking he was a complete joke, even his 'Mania win came from him being a bitchy fool who had no right to star in it but got let in due to HIS HUGE HEART and his RELATON TO EDDIE (or whatever Michael Cole and Teddy Long would say at the time). His matches around that time were naff too, which I can't blame him entirely for given he had to face monsters like JBL, Henry etc who just don't click with Rey (some big guys seem to pull out good matches with him though, such as Kane). Urgh. I actually dislike the Mysterio character a lot due to that entire period.
On a specific note: he was meant to be the valiant face at 'Mania, fighting for the title, yet that spot where he jumped on the ref to interrupt Angle pinning Orton didn't fit. You could try to justify it as 'he was cheating, just like Eddie would!' but nah, didn't fit at all. The only weak spot of that incredible match.
Jeff Jarret - he's a solid wrestler, he can even carry a match at times, but world champion? He lacks a good enough look, he lacks anything that says he's better than any mid-carder...
Christian - I loved his main eventing run in TNA, his matches have ALWAYS been high quality, but his look is just...uncompelling. His mic skills also bother me, he's a natural speaker but I don't know, he seems more like a cocky midcarder than a viable threat, he couldn't sell me a PPV through his promos as such. I really think he's in a good spot as ECW champion, not quite main event, which just matches him perfectly.
|
|
|
Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Dec 26, 2009 3:59:07 GMT -5
I'll argue that Jeff Jarrett was one of WCW's best options for a main eventer at the time he won the belt. Remember, this was a few months after the Radicalz had left. Bret Hart was concussed into retirement. Goldberg was injured. They were trying to shake off the "WCW is headlined by '80s WWF stars" image, so another Hogan run was out of the question. Meanwhile, Jarrett was hot coming off of his "don't piss me off" he-man woman-hater run in the WWF and subsequent jump to WCW, and had hit a small goldmine with his "slapnuts" catchphrase. For a heel leader of the New Blood faction, there was really no better choice.
The problem was that he looked ineffectual and never really regained the momentum he had prior to winning it. He lost it to Diamond Dallas Page, then got entangled in the whole Arquette storyline before getting it back.
|
|
|
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 26, 2009 10:23:00 GMT -5
I think that Jeff Jarrett wasn't credible in some people's eyes because the big guys at the time were too concerned with their spots and didn't want to put him over. Same with Booker T in WCW. They never beat a Hogan or Nash or Goldberg to make their title win look impressive. By the time Jarrett got into the main event, he was feuding with midcard guys who were, by default, made into main event wrestlers (Sid, Benoit, Booker T).
Douglas was a great champion, I don't know how many of you were actually watching ECW in its heyday, but he made ECW. In the early days, he was really trying to get ECW on the map and carried the ball for that company, establishing himself as a fighting heel champion. He took on guys like Blanchard, Ron Simmons, Terry Funk and Sabu and helped make that belt matter. He really hit his stride around the Al Snow feud and his story telling in the ring during his feuds with taz and bam bam was tremendous. He was more than a bunch of explenetives.
It was hard for me to buy Steve Corino or Justin Credible as ECW champion, mainly because the company was grasping at straws at that point for champions.
I didn't buy into Triple H's first reign because I didn't feel he was a big enough name at the time and still viewed him as shawn's lackey.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 11:00:13 GMT -5
I'm with the ones who says, "There's just something about Christian". In his early days, he had an "indy look"; his hair appeared fried, he couldn't grow decent facial hair and he looked like a troll, his outfits remind you of a bad mid-'80s hair band with mesh tops and gold tights (guys, either wear a shirt or don't - leave the mesh/see-through tops for the ladies), his style was nothing special. Then, when he started becoming the "cool heel", he was buried in the mid-card because his promos were nothing that you build a main event level star around; Too much revolving around insults and bad jokes. Much like Chris Jericho in his run as "Unified Champion". He beat the Rock & Steve Austin to win said title, but who really thought he was a dominant champion instead of just a set-up transitional title-holder until Triple H came back?
|
|
|
Post by repomanfan on Dec 26, 2009 11:53:00 GMT -5
Maybe i am in the minority, but, i was a bigger Bret Hart fan before his WWF title run. For some reason i could never buy into the fact that he was the top dog. In my eyes he was an underdog type of guy, who put on great matches, could compete with anybody, but never win the big one. That is what appealed to me about Bret Hart, and what made me such a big fan of his in the late 80s early 90s. His mid 90s WWF title run, just didn't do it for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 12:14:38 GMT -5
Maybe i am in the minority, but, i was a bigger Bret Hart fan before his WWF title run. For some reason i could never buy into the fact that he was the top dog. In my eyes he was an underdog type of guy, who put on great matches, could compete with anybody, but never win the big one. That is what appealed to me about Bret Hart, and what made me such a big fan of his in the late 80s early 90s. His mid 90s WWF title run, just didn't do it for me. In Bret's defense, he didn't exactly have the most impressive list of contenders for his belt. Diesel I could accept as a top guy, Shawn Michaels I can buy as a credible main eventer, even Owen in a storyline kinda way made sense in 1993-94. But, the top guys were mainly good guys. You had Bret, you had Razor Ramon, you had Undertaker and a bunch of guys just filling roles on the card. I know Bret has that rare ability to make guys better just by working and associating with them (I've always believed that and still do to this day), but damn it was difficult to make Jean-Pierre Lafitte or Hakushi look like a serious threat when there was no real reason they were facing off, even if you were the best wrestler on the planet. Steal a jacket? Don't speak English? WTF? Another problem, adding more PPVs and not really building up a sizable list of top contenders for long programs was the norm, rather than the exception. The "real top contenders" like Diesel, Shawn, etc., were saved for the "name" PPVs; the IYH shows were just mainly about getting a new guy's feet wet in the promotion and seeing what he can do.
|
|
|
Post by chunkylover53 on Dec 26, 2009 12:50:24 GMT -5
This thread begins and ends with Rey Mysterio for me. Through booking he was a complete joke, even his 'Mania win came from him being a bitchy fool who had no right to star in it but got let in due to HIS HUGE HEART and his RELATON TO EDDIE (or whatever Michael Cole and Teddy Long would say at the time). His matches around that time were naff too, which I can't blame him entirely for given he had to face monsters like JBL, Henry etc who just don't click with Rey (some big guys seem to pull out good matches with him though, such as Kane). Urgh. I actually dislike the Mysterio character a lot due to that entire period. On a specific note: he was meant to be the valiant face at 'Mania, fighting for the title, yet that spot where he jumped on the ref to interrupt Angle pinning Orton didn't fit. You could try to justify it as 'he was cheating, just like Eddie would!' but nah, didn't fit at all. The only weak spot of that incredible match. Surprisingly enough, I was able to see Rey Mysterio in the Main Event before Eddie's death. He was getting higher up in the mid card and had the fan support for it, I really think he could've been a good underdog champ WITHOUT the Eddie pity. When he got into the Main Event, it wasn't about him, it was about his dead friend, forgetting months ago, Eddie made his life a living hell with the paternity suit. So to me, its moreso the booking that didn't make Rey a convincing main event, than Rey himself.
|
|
|
Post by repomanfan on Dec 26, 2009 13:03:45 GMT -5
Maybe i am in the minority, but, i was a bigger Bret Hart fan before his WWF title run. For some reason i could never buy into the fact that he was the top dog. In my eyes he was an underdog type of guy, who put on great matches, could compete with anybody, but never win the big one. That is what appealed to me about Bret Hart, and what made me such a big fan of his in the late 80s early 90s. His mid 90s WWF title run, just didn't do it for me. In Bret's defense, he didn't exactly have the most impressive list of contenders for his belt. Diesel I could accept as a top guy, Shawn Michaels I can buy as a credible main eventer, even Owen in a storyline kinda way made sense in 1993-94. But, the top guys were mainly good guys. You had Bret, you had Razor Ramon, you had Undertaker and a bunch of guys just filling roles on the card. I know Bret has that rare ability to make guys better just by working and associating with them (I've always believed that and still do to this day), but damn it was difficult to make Jean-Pierre Lafitte or Hakushi look like a serious threat when there was no real reason they were facing off, even if you were the best wrestler on the planet. Steal a jacket? Don't speak English? WTF? Another problem, adding more PPVs and not really building up a sizable list of top contenders for long programs was the norm, rather than the exception. The "real top contenders" like Diesel, Shawn, etc., were saved for the "name" PPVs; the IYH shows were just mainly about getting a new guy's feet wet in the promotion and seeing what he can do. By 93, Bret was in real tough spot. The business was in the worst shape it had ever been in and he was the top dog. You had Bret(a real pro wrestler) surrounded by clowns, garbage men, and race car drivers. Even as a 12 or 13 year old kid, i couldn't buy into half the crap that Vince was coming up with, no matter how hard i tried to convince myself.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Dec 26, 2009 13:05:36 GMT -5
This thread begins and ends with Rey Mysterio for me. Through booking he was a complete joke, even his 'Mania win came from him being a bitchy fool who had no right to star in it but got let in due to HIS HUGE HEART and his RELATON TO EDDIE (or whatever Michael Cole and Teddy Long would say at the time). His matches around that time were naff too, which I can't blame him entirely for given he had to face monsters like JBL, Henry etc who just don't click with Rey (some big guys seem to pull out good matches with him though, such as Kane). Urgh. I actually dislike the Mysterio character a lot due to that entire period. On a specific note: he was meant to be the valiant face at 'Mania, fighting for the title, yet that spot where he jumped on the ref to interrupt Angle pinning Orton didn't fit. You could try to justify it as 'he was cheating, just like Eddie would!' but nah, didn't fit at all. The only weak spot of that incredible match. Surprisingly enough, I was able to see Rey Mysterio in the Main Event before Eddie's death. He was getting higher up in the mid card and had the fan support for it, I really think he could've been a good underdog champ WITHOUT the Eddie pity. When he got into the Main Event, it wasn't about him, it was about his dead friend, forgetting months ago, Eddie made his life a living hell with the paternity suit. So to me, its moreso the booking that didn't make Rey a convincing main event, than Rey himself. I agree with this. I remember the segment where they turned Eddie back to face and started his on screen friendship with Batista, before they announced Eddie as #1 Contender, they teased Rey as being the guy they were going to announce before Palmer Cannon cut in. The crowd really popped for the idea of Rey in the title programme.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 13:13:21 GMT -5
This thread begins and ends with Rey Mysterio for me. Through booking he was a complete joke, even his 'Mania win came from him being a bitchy fool who had no right to star in it but got let in due to HIS HUGE HEART and his RELATON TO EDDIE (or whatever Michael Cole and Teddy Long would say at the time). His matches around that time were naff too, which I can't blame him entirely for given he had to face monsters like JBL, Henry etc who just don't click with Rey (some big guys seem to pull out good matches with him though, such as Kane). Urgh. I actually dislike the Mysterio character a lot due to that entire period. On a specific note: he was meant to be the valiant face at 'Mania, fighting for the title, yet that spot where he jumped on the ref to interrupt Angle pinning Orton didn't fit. You could try to justify it as 'he was cheating, just like Eddie would!' but nah, didn't fit at all. The only weak spot of that incredible match. Surprisingly enough, I was able to see Rey Mysterio in the Main Event before Eddie's death. He was getting higher up in the mid card and had the fan support for it, I really think he could've been a good underdog champ WITHOUT the Eddie pity. When he got into the Main Event, it wasn't about him, it was about his dead friend, forgetting months ago, Eddie made his life a living hell with the paternity suit. So to me, its moreso the booking that didn't make Rey a convincing main event, than Rey himself. Aye, I have to agree with you. Been thinking about it throughout the day and really, I was entertained by his matches, and I still am and respect his ability. The booking was just so pitiful and absolutely dispicable (when Randy delivered his 'HE'S IN HELL!' line I felt awful for all involved) that it damaged his character in my eyes to warrant me thinking he was useless. Sort of weird, but makes sense, crazy business.
|
|
|
Post by italliansausagepat on Dec 26, 2009 15:07:39 GMT -5
Hardcore Holly
|
|
|
Post by machomadness on Dec 26, 2009 17:14:53 GMT -5
I think the importance of having a good look can be a little overstated at times. Having a good look is one of about half a dozen things that make a main eventer. You need charisma, on screen presence, quality mic skills, great in ring ability (Psychcology, Athleticisim, consistantcy) and good oppodents. You can get way with lacking in one or two departments if you can excel in at least four of those six.
The reason why Jeff Jarret for example couldn't get over was because despite being a solid in ring performer and storyteller, he lacked that pizazz in his matches and the only way you could justify that is if you're taller than 6ft 6 or excelling in several other areas. Also despite being a comfortable speaker, he never truly had anything interesting to say in regards to his own character development. The only thing he did was use tired catchphrases and make up confusing insults, what is a "slapnuts" exactly? I wouldn't want to work with Jeff Jarrett because you're more likely to come out of a program with either nothing to show for it or even possibly coming out looking weaker such is the level of apathy most fans had and still have for him.
|
|
AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by AriadosMan on Dec 26, 2009 17:20:21 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett Christian Great Khali Vladimir Kozlov
|
|
|
Post by tap on Dec 26, 2009 17:57:46 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Jeff Jarrett could've made a fine WWF champion if built properly? Anyone can be a legitimate main eventer if built properly and if they have interesting characters/wrestlers to work with, so that people pay to see them square off.
|
|
|
Post by BitterAF on Dec 26, 2009 18:10:39 GMT -5
1. Jeff Jarrett 2. JBL 3. Lex Lugar in the WWF 4. Mick Foley any era. 5. DDP 6. Booker T 7. Scott Steiner
|
|
|
Post by repomanfan on Dec 26, 2009 18:16:21 GMT -5
I think the importance of having a good look can be a little overstated at times. Having a good look is one of about half a dozen things that make a main eventer. You need charisma, on screen presence, quality mic skills, great in ring ability (Psychcology, Athleticisim, consistantcy) and good oppodents. You can get way with lacking in one or two departments if you can excel in at least four of those six. The reason why Jeff Jarret for example couldn't get over was because despite being a solid in ring performer and storyteller, he lacked that pizazz in his matches and the only way you could justify that is if you're taller than 6ft 6 or excelling in several other areas. Also despite being a comfortable speaker, he never truly had anything interesting to say in regards to his own character development. The only thing he did was use tired catchphrases and make up confusing insults, what is a "slapnuts" exactly? I wouldn't want to work with Jeff Jarrett because you're more likely to come out of a program with either nothing to show for it or even possibly coming out looking weaker such is the level of apathy most fans had and still have for him. Agreed. Jarrett was average or above average in just about every department. The problem is, that he wasn't great at any one thing in particular. He was okay on the mic, he had a pretty good look, he could put on a good match so and so forth. When i grew up watching wrestling, i never once tuned in to watch Jeff Jarrett, and i don't think anyone else did either. It's not that i disliked him, i just didn't pay much attention to him. Some guys grab you the instant you see them and others don't, and for some reason he never captured the fans imagination.
|
|
|
Post by chunkylover53 on Dec 28, 2009 0:32:40 GMT -5
Does anybody think John Cena's main event status seemed forced at times? I mean, the WWE hype machine makes him seem like he's this generation's Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, when the whole time he was on top, WWE was lucky to get past a 4.0 in the ratings.
|
|
|
Post by KingPopper on Dec 28, 2009 1:06:48 GMT -5
Chyna.
|
|
|
Post by hajimenoippo on Dec 28, 2009 1:20:05 GMT -5
Does anybody think John Cena's main event status seemed forced at times? I mean, the WWE hype machine makes him seem like he's this generation's Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, when the whole time he was on top, WWE was lucky to get past a 4.0 in the ratings. He had a long slow build to the WWE title. He was so over in 2005 that it warranted putting the belt on him. People hate Batista/Cena nowadays because they've been main eventing for 4 years going on 5, so now people want new. Cena and Batista were the most over guys in WWE leading up to their title wins.
|
|
Thrillho
Dennis Stamp
0 Days since last "incident"james.anderson1989jamesandersonmusicJimBillAnderson
Posts: 3,740
|
Post by Thrillho on Dec 28, 2009 1:20:41 GMT -5
I had trouble accepting Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, JBL, and Rikishi as main eventers.
All but one of them proved me wrong.
|
|