|
Post by machomadness on Dec 18, 2009 21:18:43 GMT -5
After reading the rest of this thread, I guess wrestling is subjective at the end of the day.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
|
Post by The Ichi on Dec 19, 2009 9:13:51 GMT -5
For such a smarky list (no Cena to be found anywhere; Danielson, Punk, Styles, and Angle in the top ten) why IS Randy Orton #7 anyways? Most smarks consider him to be a talentless hack to begin with... 'course, I could ask why Triple H is in the top 20, considering smarks HATE him AND this was one of his worst years as a performer, but I'll just stop right now... Actually I'd say Orton is about 50-50 with the smarks. Of course you can't really ask each one what they think of him. Not a good list in my opinion. Rey had a good year to be sure (maybe his best this decade, at least ringwork-wise) but doesn't deserve the #1 spot. Cena deserves to be in there at least somewhere considering how much he's busted his ass, and guys like Jeff Hardy and Edge, who are both good but were only really around for half of the year are way too high. Oh, and The Miz deserves to be way higher. Top 20 at least.
|
|
|
Post by The Blue Blazer on Dec 19, 2009 15:54:55 GMT -5
I don't have the slightest idea who 3/4 of these guys are.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Dec 19, 2009 16:57:21 GMT -5
I don't get what was so terrible about Orton/Hunter at Mania. On the night I enjoyed it more than Taker/Shawn, and now I'd say on a par having got the dvd and rewatched a few times. Taker/Shawn was technically better, but had no drama built going in, so it was just a cold match for me. So you dont think Hunter squashing somone in the main event has not been done 1000 times before (with about 500 of them with Orton) is not fresh or original or that people might be bored with it? ? As for Taker/Shawn it was incredible specially after Taker almost killed himself but the real test is whether they can do as good a job in the rematch?? I didn't think it was a squash. The match was different from their other meetings and it was amped up because of the weeks leading up to it. End of the day, I liked it more.
|
|
Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
|
Post by Big L on Dec 20, 2009 15:25:54 GMT -5
Ummm where's braden walker
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,664
|
Post by Bo Rida on Dec 20, 2009 18:25:02 GMT -5
I agree with Rey being top and I didn't even like him at the start of the year.
|
|
|
Post by silverking on Dec 22, 2009 8:35:48 GMT -5
-What the hell is Triple H doing in any sort of great workers list? -50 credibility points. -f***ing Edge made it and he was out for most of the year. Apart from doing nothing memorable except being carried by Rey. -You don't include the GOOD British workers like Finlay, Regal, Johnny Saint and Dave Taylor but include PAC?? -There are practically no Lucha libre workers. I would expect this in WWE magazine, but wow for a magazine like this, I'd expect them to cover Lucha Libre. PWI>Powerslam -Eddie Edwards is the 32nd best worker in the world. Nick Jackson is the 46th best wrestler in the world. Think about that. -Too much Dragongate, Yeech. -Rey, Danielson, Christian, Nakamura, Jericho, Morrison, Styles and Taker are the only dudes on here that belong in a top 50 best workers of the year list. Everyone else, oof. Only good thing about this list is Rey winning.
|
|
H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
|
Post by H-Fist on Dec 22, 2009 15:37:50 GMT -5
-f***ing Edge made it and he was out for most of the year. Apart from doing nothing memorable except being carried by Rey. Edge had solid feuds and/or matches with Rey, Punk, Hardy, Jericho and Cena. He was likely well on his way to a big-time face turn when his Achilles blew. He got hurt at the end of July, so he missed less than half the year, not "most" of it. Regal has had some solid stuff this year, but Finlay has been midcard enhancement talent this year for WWE. Outside of Chikara King of Trios and a 1PW match against Cabana, has Saint really been active enough to rank? Honestly, I don't follow what goes on in the UK (probably the driving issue here - no one really does, outside of the guys like Pac who do overseas tours). And the Squire also did KoT, but again, was his 2009 that busy and good to merit inclusion? Again, Mexican lucha libre is not particularly significant outside of Mexico, no matter how big it is there. Guys like Rocky Romero, Teddy, Jack and others can go down there and be very successful, but the reverse isn't really true. Dragon Gate/the Japanese version of lucha has been much more influential in recent years. As such, it is the DG performers who seem to get a lot of publicity. Meanwhile, wrestlers who work for CMLL or AAA or successful luchadores who might otherwise have a chance to be on this list (Evans, Romero, Kozlov, Blue Demon Jr to name a few) are ignored. Between these last two points, availability is a major common factor. It is easy to buy DG, NOAH, and ROH DVDs anywhere, so those promotions have an easier time gaining modica of fame for their stars. Eddie Edwards has come a long way and is probably moving quickly up the ROH ranks, but I agree that 32 in the world is too high based on work alone. But clearly this list is more than simply work. It's about being involved in meaningful angles, getting over, and being respected by fans. Edwards has certainly earned bonus points for GBH weekend as well as a solid tag title reign in ROH. I completely agree about Nick Jackson. I could probably rattle off a few dozen wrestlers I'd rather pay to see, ranging from high flyers to low-workrate power wrestlers. Especially with the beginning of DGUSA, this year was their year as the "it" promotion. Hopefully they don't become so dominant in popularity that all the American promotions/workers decide to go in that direction.
|
|
stjames
Mike the Goon
The Greatest Show on Earth
Posts: 48
|
Post by stjames on Dec 22, 2009 18:37:24 GMT -5
OK explain, what has Powerslam got against Cena?
No Cena fan, but not in the top 50? Dont understand.
|
|
|
Post by silverking on Dec 22, 2009 18:38:31 GMT -5
Again, Mexican lucha libre is not particularly significant outside of Mexico, no matter how big it is there. Guys like Rocky Romero, Teddy, Jack and others can go down there and be very successful, but the reverse isn't really true. Dragon Gate/the Japanese version of lucha has been much more influential in recent years. As such, it is the DG performers who seem to get a lot of publicity. Meanwhile, wrestlers who work for CMLL or AAA or successful luchadores who might otherwise have a chance to be on this list (Evans, Romero, Kozlov, Blue Demon Jr to name a few) are ignored. Between these last two points, availability is a major common factor. It is easy to buy DG, NOAH, and ROH DVDs anywhere, so those promotions have an easier time gaining modica of fame for their stars. Lucha promotions like CMLL, IWRG and AAA are available in basic cable (as opposed to HDNet or PPV). You don't even have to buy lucha dvds to be exposed to them. Lucha shows outdraw any non WWE and legend shows on a regular basis, especially in markets such as Texas, California and others. I'd say they have a bigger market than the indy scene. Do your research. Regal has had some solid stuff this year, but Finlay has been midcard enhancement talent this year for WWE. Outside of Chikara King of Trios and a 1PW match against Cabana, has Saint really been active enough to rank? Honestly, I don't follow what goes on in the UK (probably the driving issue here - no one really does, outside of the guys like Pac who do overseas tours). And the Squire also did KoT, but again, was his 2009 that busy and good to merit inclusion? Your argument doesn't hold up. What did PAC do? Is this list basing his oh so memorable work in NWE? To my recollection, he didn't work ROH or any major indy this year. I'd rather watch the Knox/Finlay or Christian/Regal feuds. Win/loss records do not make good or bad workers. Eddie Edwards has come a long way and is probably moving quickly up the ROH ranks, but I agree that 32 in the world is too high based on work alone. But clearly this list is more than simply work. It's about being involved in meaningful angles, getting over, and being respected by fans. Edwards has certainly earned bonus points for GBH weekend as well as a solid tag title reign in ROH. Edwards is a generic indy guy with a technical wrestler gimmick. He doesn't belong in top 500 list much less a top 50 list.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Dec 22, 2009 18:48:01 GMT -5
OK explain, what has Powerslam got against Cena? No Cena fan, but not in the top 50? Dont understand. Extreme, extreme stereotyped bias.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Dec 22, 2009 18:51:30 GMT -5
This is just my little opinion but Triple H and Randy Orton don't deserve to be in the list after one of the worst WM main events I've ever witnessed. I don't mind Rey at the top though, not his biggest fan but he had quite a few matches where he was really good.
|
|
repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by repomark on Dec 23, 2009 9:06:10 GMT -5
Yes Powerslam I get every month but it is starting to annoy me with its esoteric ways. They really have it in for Cena, yet as many have said he has to be in the top 50 love him or hate him. He had a pretty good year in terms of match quality which was what this list was calculated based upon. Their constant - and many times unfair critisism - of Cena is getting out of control and nothing short of petty.
They also seem to have real issues with Jericho for some reason - referring to him in previous issues as "a careless wrestler who always injures others" and "a man who is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is".
As a side note, their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read.
Mysterio as number 1 I thought was a strange choice, but when you look back on his year in terms of match quality he has had a pretty decent year. Not a wrestler of the year 365 days, but decent.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Dec 23, 2009 9:24:50 GMT -5
Yes Powerslam I get every month but it is starting to annoy me with its esoteric ways. They really have it in for Cena, yet as many have said he has to be in the top 50 love him or hate him. He had a pretty good year in terms of match quality which was what this list was calculated based upon. Their constant - and many times unfair critisism - of Cena is getting out of control and nothing short of petty. They also seem to have real issues with Jericho for some reason - referring to him in previous issues as "a careless wrestler who always injures others" and "a man who is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is". As a side note, their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read. Mysterio as number 1 I thought was a strange choice, but when you look back on his year in terms of match quality he has had a pretty decent year. Not a wrestler of the year 365 days, but decent. I stopped getting it a while back for the reasons you stated. I don't get their attitude to Jericho either. They took regular shots at him when he was on hiatus "He lives in an expensive neighbourhood and won't be able to afford it on his non-wrestling income"... Well how the hell do they know that?
|
|
|
Post by Maffew on Dec 23, 2009 10:15:37 GMT -5
Yes Powerslam I get every month but it is starting to annoy me with its esoteric ways. They really have it in for Cena, yet as many have said he has to be in the top 50 love him or hate him. He had a pretty good year in terms of match quality which was what this list was calculated based upon. Their constant - and many times unfair critisism - of Cena is getting out of control and nothing short of petty. They also seem to have real issues with Jericho for some reason - referring to him in previous issues as "a careless wrestler who always injures others" and "a man who is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is". As a side note, their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read. Mysterio as number 1 I thought was a strange choice, but when you look back on his year in terms of match quality he has had a pretty decent year. Not a wrestler of the year 365 days, but decent. Cena is routinely criticised by the magazine but gives reasons as to why (uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it) , but I'd like to know what matches he has had this year to merit a mention in the list? It is their opinion after all...but really, what has his year featured? Shite feud with Big Show, shite feud with the Miz, endless feud with Orton and only a good match with Edge at Backlash to truly brag about. "Pretty good year in terms of match quality". When? Where? I find it odd that people would actually care if Powerslam features Cena in the list, as if they have to or something. The only year Cena truly earned a mention was 2007 (imo). When have Powerslam ever said that about Jericho? You use quote marks, I'd love to know where they came from. I mean, it's not like you would state something to be true without citing your sources. They mark him as inconsistent, which I think is true. When Jericho is on, he's great but when he's not he's, well....not. I wish the magazine would actually cover UK events in detail as opposed to fleetingly mention some of them in the Top 50 list, posthumously.
|
|
repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by repomark on Dec 23, 2009 11:29:28 GMT -5
Yes Powerslam I get every month but it is starting to annoy me with its esoteric ways. They really have it in for Cena, yet as many have said he has to be in the top 50 love him or hate him. He had a pretty good year in terms of match quality which was what this list was calculated based upon. Their constant - and many times unfair critisism - of Cena is getting out of control and nothing short of petty. They also seem to have real issues with Jericho for some reason - referring to him in previous issues as "a careless wrestler who always injures others" and "a man who is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is". As a side note, their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read. Mysterio as number 1 I thought was a strange choice, but when you look back on his year in terms of match quality he has had a pretty decent year. Not a wrestler of the year 365 days, but decent. Cena is routinely criticised by the magazine but gives reasons as to why (uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it) , but I'd like to know what matches he has had this year to merit a mention in the list? It is their opinion after all...but really, what has his year featured? s***e feud with Big Show, s***e feud with the Miz, endless feud with Orton and only a good match with Edge at Backlash to truly brag about. "Pretty good year in terms of match quality". When? Where? I find it odd that people would actually care if Powerslam features Cena in the list, as if they have to or something. The only year Cena truly earned a mention was 2007 (imo). When have Powerslam ever said that about Jericho? You use quote marks, I'd love to know where they came from. I mean, it's not like you would state something to be true without citing your sources. They mark him as inconsistent, which I think is true. When Jericho is on, he's great but when he's not he's, well....not. I wish the magazine would actually cover UK events in detail as opposed to fleetingly mention some of them in the Top 50 list, posthumously. Read through back issues of Powerslam - those two quotes about Jericho are within issues of the magazine from this year. I was not aware that Wrestlecrap operated the Harvard system of referencing and please accept my apologies if this means that you are going to fail my post. In terms of people caring about whether Cena is or isn’t on the list - you cared enough to argue the point that you did not think Cena should be on the list so I guess everyone posting with in this thread is as bad as each other? Or is there not an inherent hypocrisy there? Who am I to say – I didn’t even care enough to reference the exact two issues of Powerslam from which I quoted. As has been said opinions on wrestling are subjective – and I personally believe Cena’s year has not been at all bad in terms of match quality where as you do not. The feud with Orton yielded some decent matches, the Edge match as you mention, the match against DX at Survivor Series, the WM match against Show and Edge. I liked them – you obviously did not. The very line “uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it” (by the way - is that a direct Powerslam quote you have used – would you care to site the reference more thoroughly?) suggests a personal dislike of Cena – which is fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion including magazines. Whilst some of their criticism is merited, it more often than not it is just as juvenile as the Cena promos they continually bemoan every month. Often it is just based on the fact they do not like the guy and they criticize even the things he does well and constantly make hints towards steroid use which, as John Cena himself would say “I can’t tell you that I haven’t but you will never be able to prove that I have”. (Cena, John, CNN Interview November 2007)
|
|
|
Post by hajimenoippo on Dec 23, 2009 11:45:46 GMT -5
It's maffew don't take him seriously
Cena should be on the list more so than PAC, the young bucks, or the American wolves
pwi 500 has more credence
|
|
|
Post by Maffew on Dec 23, 2009 12:35:21 GMT -5
Cena is routinely criticised by the magazine but gives reasons as to why (uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it) , but I'd like to know what matches he has had this year to merit a mention in the list? It is their opinion after all...but really, what has his year featured? s***e feud with Big Show, s***e feud with the Miz, endless feud with Orton and only a good match with Edge at Backlash to truly brag about. "Pretty good year in terms of match quality". When? Where? I find it odd that people would actually care if Powerslam features Cena in the list, as if they have to or something. The only year Cena truly earned a mention was 2007 (imo). When have Powerslam ever said that about Jericho? You use quote marks, I'd love to know where they came from. I mean, it's not like you would state something to be true without citing your sources. They mark him as inconsistent, which I think is true. When Jericho is on, he's great but when he's not he's, well....not. I wish the magazine would actually cover UK events in detail as opposed to fleetingly mention some of them in the Top 50 list, posthumously. Read through back issues of Powerslam - those two quotes about Jericho are within issues of the magazine from this year. I was not aware that Wrestlecrap operated the Harvard system of referencing and please accept my apologies if this means that you are going to fail my post. In terms of people caring about whether Cena is or isn’t on the list - you cared enough to argue the point that you did not think Cena should be on the list so I guess everyone posting with in this thread is as bad as each other? Or is there not an inherent hypocrisy there? Who am I to say – I didn’t even care enough to reference the exact two issues of Powerslam from which I quoted. As has been said opinions on wrestling are subjective – and I personally believe Cena’s year has not been at all bad in terms of match quality where as you do not. The feud with Orton yielded some decent matches, the Edge match as you mention, the match against DX at Survivor Series, the WM match against Show and Edge. I liked them – you obviously did not. The very line “uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it” (by the way - is that a direct Powerslam quote you have used – would you care to site the reference more thoroughly?) suggests a personal dislike of Cena – which is fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion including magazines. Whilst some of their criticism is merited, it more often than not it is just as juvenile as the Cena promos they continually bemoan every month. Often it is just based on the fact they do not like the guy and they criticize even the things he does well and constantly make hints towards steroid use which, as John Cena himself would say “I can’t tell you that I haven’t but you will never be able to prove that I have”. (Cena, John, CNN Interview November 2007) Oh dear oh dear.... I fear you have misunderstood some of my initial post. The quote againt Jericho ("a careless wrestler who always injures others") is one hell of a damning statement and I was curious as to know it's wherabouts. I'll scour Powerslam Magazines myself, they make for superb toilet reading anyway. I only intended on being a snarky smark when I saw your "their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read." and thought it too good to pass up on. My apologies if it was taken incorrectly, I fancied a good argument not a good slagging off session. Moving on...yes you are right Fin Martin et al's opinions do threaten fact in Powerslam more and more. And yes, they do seem to have it in for Cena. I do too, which I guess is why I jumped to Powerslam's defence like INTERNETWARRIORMAN. Ithink I do care about Powerslam Magazine's reputation. A bit sad, really. My naff line "uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it" wasn't a quote, as I didn't use quotation marks Thanks for the backhanded compliment though. It's maffew don't take him seriously Git.
|
|
|
Post by hajimenoippo on Dec 23, 2009 13:28:50 GMT -5
Hey I love your work, maffew srs wrestling fan is newz to me
|
|
repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by repomark on Dec 24, 2009 5:41:32 GMT -5
Read through back issues of Powerslam - those two quotes about Jericho are within issues of the magazine from this year. I was not aware that Wrestlecrap operated the Harvard system of referencing and please accept my apologies if this means that you are going to fail my post. In terms of people caring about whether Cena is or isn’t on the list - you cared enough to argue the point that you did not think Cena should be on the list so I guess everyone posting with in this thread is as bad as each other? Or is there not an inherent hypocrisy there? Who am I to say – I didn’t even care enough to reference the exact two issues of Powerslam from which I quoted. As has been said opinions on wrestling are subjective – and I personally believe Cena’s year has not been at all bad in terms of match quality where as you do not. The feud with Orton yielded some decent matches, the Edge match as you mention, the match against DX at Survivor Series, the WM match against Show and Edge. I liked them – you obviously did not. The very line “uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it” (by the way - is that a direct Powerslam quote you have used – would you care to site the reference more thoroughly?) suggests a personal dislike of Cena – which is fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion including magazines. Whilst some of their criticism is merited, it more often than not it is just as juvenile as the Cena promos they continually bemoan every month. Often it is just based on the fact they do not like the guy and they criticize even the things he does well and constantly make hints towards steroid use which, as John Cena himself would say “I can’t tell you that I haven’t but you will never be able to prove that I have”. (Cena, John, CNN Interview November 2007) Oh dear oh dear.... I fear you have misunderstood some of my initial post. The quote againt Jericho ("a careless wrestler who always injures others") is one hell of a damning statement and I was curious as to know it's wherabouts. I'll scour Powerslam Magazines myself, they make for superb toilet reading anyway. I only intended on being a snarky smark when I saw your "their constant stating everything they believe to be true as fact with no evidence or sources to back it up also is making the magazine more and more difficult to read." and thought it too good to pass up on. My apologies if it was taken incorrectly, I fancied a good argument not a good slagging off session. Moving on...yes you are right Fin Martin et al's opinions do threaten fact in Powerslam more and more. And yes, they do seem to have it in for Cena. I do too, which I guess is why I jumped to Powerslam's defence like INTERNETWARRIORMAN. Ithink I do care about Powerslam Magazine's reputation. A bit sad, really. My naff line "uninteresting and unbelievable on the mic, duller than daytime TV off it" wasn't a quote, as I didn't use quotation marks Thanks for the backhanded compliment though. It's maffew don't take him seriously Git. I love the term "Snarky Smark" lol. Yes I wasn't intending to slag you off or have a go either I just seized the opportunity to get the phase "HARVARD REFERENCING SYSTEM" onto Wrestlecrap I am fairly sure for the first time.
|
|