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Post by Andrew is Good on Mar 27, 2010 20:57:07 GMT -5
If name recognition is what they're going for....(and maybe one of you more knowledgeable folks can explain this to me) wouldn't you want that name that's being recognized to be TNA and not WWE? Because as it is, they're becoming SOOOO loaded with ex-WWE guys that they look like WWE's new C-show. Be honest....most fans, when they first saw Mister Anderson didn't go "Hey it's Mister Anderson!" No...they went "Hey it's Mr. Kennedy from the WWE." They recognize these guys first and foremost from where they were LAST, which is the WWE, hence what it seems like to me is that TNA is actively promoting the WWE....TNA's own stars by comparison aren't promoted as heavily, or rarely get time away from ex-WWE folks to show what TNA's product really is. I mean, we know the WWE guys and what they can do. They're a known quantity to a lot of folks....but how about Samoa Joe? Daniels? AJ? Consequences Creed? Jay Lethal? MCMG? THOSE are the guys TNA needs to be worrying about getting over on TV...not Hogan, Flair, the Nasties, or (and I hate to say this, but it's true) RVD and Hardy. ALL those guys have had their turn as the focal point of the biggest name in wrestling in North America. We know who they are....and we know what they can do. How about letting some of the homegrown talent have some time to themselves to really shine? /two cents. God, I hate when people act like it's all the old guys who get the TV, and nothing goes to the young guys. Guys like Hogan and Flair are in manageral roles, focused on Abyss and AJ, respectivly, and the Nasties are barely on TV as it is to be effectivly taking anything away from anyone. But sadly, while they are in managerial roles, they are in the most prominent roles, Hogan especially, who seems to be the star of the show, and Abyss is his buddy, or number 1 Hulkamaniac. And, I must say, am I the only one who likes Jesse Neal, lol. The guy is a great talent, he's not the most experienced guy, but he's got a unique look, and is pretty good for his limited experience, which maybe just a couple of years. Especially since young talent, which is something TNA should build off of. The Shark Boy thing can be heard on Bill Behrens Who's Slamming Who podcast as said before, and he's just as baffled, especially considering how cheap Shark Boy is in relation to others like Jeff Hardy and RVD who currently don't have merchandise, or much merchandise. And also, I have to point this out. The only reason I'm defending what Dave Meltzer said is because I heard it first from Bill Behrens, who does have strong connections to TNA, being the legit manager of many TNA talents, AJ Styles being one of them. So he has verifiable first hand knowledge, and even with that, he's not shy on giving his critiques to TNA when they come up. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 27, 2010 22:43:24 GMT -5
Over the years, Meltzer has almost always been the definitive voice concerning the WWF/E, since he's always had some fantastic contacts in the company. If he reported on it, chances were his word was good, or at least had some tinge of truth to it if his source wasn't 100% correct.
With other companies, he's always had sources, but nowhere near the level of what he's had in the WWF/E.
It's fair to speculate that TNA may be taking a bath by bringing in a number of bigger contracts at the moment, but odds are good they're in a "spend money to make money" phase. That said, they'd do well to trim some fat soon, even just because their roster can't be supported by a single two hour weekly show.
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Post by wcw on Mar 28, 2010 0:44:28 GMT -5
Another thing people forget about TNA is that (Much like a prosports franchise) the real profit they are turning is likely the value of the company.
If TNA was sold tomorrow they would probably sell for a lot more then they bought it for. I think the official number for the original purchase of TNA was something like 400K. How much do you think TNA could sell for I say at least 10 million. \
That's a 9.6 million dollar profit. So yeah add in that they were supposedly making a little money the last few years I am pretty sure overall if you factor in the worth of the company they are at least about even or better.
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Post by Rorschach on Mar 28, 2010 0:47:31 GMT -5
Over the years, Meltzer has almost always been the definitive voice concerning the WWF/E, since he's always had some fantastic contacts in the company. If he reported on it, chances were his word was good, or at least had some tinge of truth to it if his source wasn't 100% correct. With other companies, he's always had sources, but nowhere near the level of what he's had in the WWF/E. It's fair to speculate that TNA may be taking a bath by bringing in a number of bigger contracts at the moment, but odds are good they're in a "spend money to make money" phase. That said, they'd do well to trim some fat soon, even just because their roster can't be supported by a single two hour weekly show. Hence why I (half jokingly) suggested a brand split. You could have all the Hogan and Co. BS taking up the majority of one show, and all the honest to God TNA stars actually wrestling taking up the majority of the other. THAT way we might actually get some decent match length for MCMG, Joe, Danielson, the Tag Titles and the KOs. |
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dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Mar 28, 2010 4:34:00 GMT -5
Meltzer has never had any contacts on the financial side for TNA. He's said that TNA is closing a whole host of times, but it's never happened. He's never predicted whats going on backstage there with any real accuracy, it's always been vague assertions which he then doesn't repeat when they don't come true. He has no credibility when it comes to what TNA does backstage, despite what's been said on this thread, as in reality, he has no contacts there and mostly goes on what a couple of guys tell him then acts like it's a fact. If he was right on the TNA issues he's raised, TNA would have shut down in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007, as in each of those years he's made claims TNA is in such bad financial straits it would be shutting down. I remember reading a variety of claims about wrestlers going unpaid and Dixie Carter looking for a way out, only for a few weeks later for Meltzer to be acting like he never said those things and for the claims to just dissapear.
Spike covers the costs for producing impact, as far as has been mentioned nearly no TNA guys are on anything but pay per appearence, and those that aren't (sting, angle) have had their contracts partially paid for by spike. The house shows must make a profit, TNA has proven it isn't stupid enough to keep running them otherwise. The PPV's outside Orlando weren't making a profit, so it cut them down to a few a year. TNA also has clearence in Britain, Australia, large chunks of europe, s korea, India etc etc. All of those deals bring in money, might not be that much but it's still cash. It's merchendise sales are also fairly good from what you see from house show videos, PPV's on the road and even inside the impact zone.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Mar 28, 2010 8:56:02 GMT -5
Meltzer has never had any contacts on the financial side for TNA. He's said that TNA is closing a whole host of times, but it's never happened. He's never predicted whats going on backstage there with any real accuracy, it's always been vague assertions which he then doesn't repeat when they don't come true. He has no credibility when it comes to what TNA does backstage, despite what's been said on this thread, as in reality, he has no contacts there and mostly goes on what a couple of guys tell him then acts like it's a fact. If he was right on the TNA issues he's raised, TNA would have shut down in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007, as in each of those years he's made claims TNA is in such bad financial straits it would be shutting down. I remember reading a variety of claims about wrestlers going unpaid and Dixie Carter looking for a way out, only for a few weeks later for Meltzer to be acting like he never said those things and for the claims to just dissapear. Spike covers the costs for producing impact, as far as has been mentioned nearly no TNA guys are on anything but pay per appearence, and those that aren't (sting, angle) have had their contracts partially paid for by spike. The house shows must make a profit, TNA has proven it isn't stupid enough to keep running them otherwise. The PPV's outside Orlando weren't making a profit, so it cut them down to a few a year. TNA also has clearence in Britain, Australia, large chunks of europe, s korea, India etc etc. All of those deals bring in money, might not be that much but it's still cash. It's merchendise sales are also fairly good from what you see from house show videos, PPV's on the road and even inside the impact zone. If Panda Energy didn't bail TNA out of a number of times with financial support, they probably would had went out of business. Spike saved them after they couldn't afford to pay FOXSports.net to air Impact on Fridays and were cancelled. Remember how they had to use their website to air Impact? If TNA is making a profit, great. But to think TNA daily operations and the worldwide economy woes is not hurting them is crazy. WWE made alot of major adjustments to counter-balance the struggling economy. Every major company is making adjustments in order to insure to make profits and in cases; to survive. TNA is hoping that the new Monday Night Wars will ignite the wrestling business. The reality is that train has long left the station. Even you have millions at home watching your show, only a few thousand have the money to pay your merch, ppvs, and live show event tickets. The diehards are not paying as much stuff as they use to because their disposable income is shrinking. Everybody is struggling right now. It's up to the business smarts of TNA management to keep them afloat. If that means cancelling some house shows and firing 1/3 of the roster, so be it. |
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Post by jfrogg007 on Mar 28, 2010 10:08:34 GMT -5
Source for Panda bailing TNA out numerous times, and that they were canceled? As far as i'm aware, their contract ran out and wasn't renewed. Spike TV also didn't SAVE anyone. They saw a product they thought they could make money off it, so they went for it. They didn't do it for the good of Dixie Carter, or Sharkboy or anyone else.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Mar 28, 2010 11:18:37 GMT -5
Source for Panda bailing TNA out numerous times, and that they were canceled? As far as i'm aware, their contract ran out and wasn't renewed. Spike TV also didn't SAVE anyone. They saw a product they thought they could make money off it, so they went for it. They didn't do it for the good of Dixie Carter, or Sharkboy or anyone else. Not being renewed is the same thing as being cancelled. When WWE was leaving Spike to go back to USA, Spike was banking the farm on UFC as the marquee show. WWE and Spike had a nasty fallout during the last episode of RAW. That helped out TNA's chances greatly with Spike when they were shopping Impact to different networks. Spike mainly signed them to screw with McMahon. Spike foots the bill for most of the main eventers like Sting and Angle. They pay TNA to air Impact, not the other way around. And your source for these facts, Jerry Jarrett's book about TNA and the same dirt sheets like Meltzer's that no one believes unless they say something you want to hear. |
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Post by dh03grad on Mar 28, 2010 11:22:49 GMT -5
Source for Panda bailing TNA out numerous times, and that they were canceled? As far as i'm aware, their contract ran out and wasn't renewed. Spike TV also didn't SAVE anyone. They saw a product they thought they could make money off it, so they went for it. They didn't do it for the good of Dixie Carter, or Sharkboy or anyone else. Whats your source for claiming that Meltzer stated TNA was in their deathbed for 6 straight years? |
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
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Post by ICBM on Mar 28, 2010 11:41:52 GMT -5
^Don't know about Metzler but everybody and thier mom who posts online believed this and posted it about every 3 months for the last 6 years. To the best of my knowledge TNA will still be on the air monday and the monday after that. thier webpage is still up and updates every few hours, they have a road show tonight I believe and a PPV scheduled again this month so as far as them being on thier last legs in anyway shape or form...there seems to be no evidence to support this claim.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Mar 28, 2010 11:59:47 GMT -5
Meltzer has never had any contacts on the financial side for TNA. He's said that TNA is closing a whole host of times, but it's never happened. He's never predicted whats going on backstage there with any real accuracy, it's always been vague assertions which he then doesn't repeat when they don't come true. He has no credibility when it comes to what TNA does backstage, despite what's been said on this thread, as in reality, he has no contacts there and mostly goes on what a couple of guys tell him then acts like it's a fact. If he was right on the TNA issues he's raised, TNA would have shut down in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007, as in each of those years he's made claims TNA is in such bad financial straits it would be shutting down. I remember reading a variety of claims about wrestlers going unpaid and Dixie Carter looking for a way out, only for a few weeks later for Meltzer to be acting like he never said those things and for the claims to just dissapear. Spike covers the costs for producing impact, as far as has been mentioned nearly no TNA guys are on anything but pay per appearence, and those that aren't (sting, angle) have had their contracts partially paid for by spike. The house shows must make a profit, TNA has proven it isn't stupid enough to keep running them otherwise. The PPV's outside Orlando weren't making a profit, so it cut them down to a few a year. TNA also has clearence in Britain, Australia, large chunks of europe, s korea, India etc etc. All of those deals bring in money, might not be that much but it's still cash. It's merchendise sales are also fairly good from what you see from house show videos, PPV's on the road and even inside the impact zone. If Panda Energy didn't bail TNA out of a number of times with financial support, they probably would had went out of business. Spike saved them after they couldn't afford to pay FOXSports.net to air Impact on Fridays and were cancelled. Remember how they had to use their website to air Impact? If TNA is making a profit, great. But to think TNA daily operations and the worldwide economy woes is not hurting them is crazy. WWE made alot of major adjustments to counter-balance the struggling economy. Every major company is making adjustments in order to insure to make profits and in cases; to survive. TNA is hoping that the new Monday Night Wars will ignite the wrestling business. The reality is that train has long left the station. Even you have millions at home watching your show, only a few thousand have the money to pay your merch, ppvs, and live show event tickets. The diehards are not paying as much stuff as they use to because their disposable income is shrinking. Everybody is struggling right now. It's up to the business smarts of TNA management to keep them afloat. If that means cancelling some house shows and firing 1/3 of the roster, so be it. They weren't cancelled from fox sports, they left, as far as I heard anyway. Plus despite TNA having Panda energy as a backer, Meltzer still claimed they were going to close. Time after time I read quotes from him saying they would be shutting soon, time after time he was wrong and they didn't. It became a running joke how many times he's said TNA is just about to collapse, a bad one too. He claimed TNA wrestlers weren't being paid, and then there's my all time fave, that Dixie Carter wasn't coming back from maternity leave as she thought the company would have shut down by then. She came back from maternity leave a few weeks later with the company still running the same as before. Meltzer has no idea what goes on backstage at TNA and never has, he may know a wrestler or two, but as far the financial and booking side, he doesn't have any more information than the cameramen or cable runners. I learnt a long time ago to ignore his prophecies, he makes them regularly and when they turn out be false, he just makes some new ones and ignores the old ones. And as for spike taking up TNA to annoy raw, I really doubt a limited company run for a profit like spike would take on TNA just to annoy the WWE. They pay TNA for impact, they've also paid part of big names contracts in the past. They do that because TNA makes them money, for any other reason would damage their credibility. |
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Mar 28, 2010 12:12:27 GMT -5
How exactly did negotiations between Spike and WWE go bad?
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dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Mar 28, 2010 12:15:14 GMT -5
How exactly did negotiations between Spike and WWE go bad? I've never heard about that before, as far as I heard WWE were offered more money to change networks back so went, spike just couldn't match the offer. |
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Post by Mr. Backlund on Mar 28, 2010 12:41:42 GMT -5
Another thing people forget about TNA is that (Much like a prosports franchise) the real profit they are turning is likely the value of the company. If TNA was sold tomorrow they would probably sell for a lot more then they bought it for. I think the official number for the original purchase of TNA was something like 400K. How much do you think TNA could sell for I say at least 10 million. \ That's a 9.6 million dollar profit. So yeah add in that they were supposedly making a little money the last few years I am pretty sure overall if you factor in the worth of the company they are at least about even or better. When the WWF bought WCW for $4.2 million, which was done so at the peak of the wrestling boom and saw the WWF not only put out a very real competitor and acquire a number of valuable assets, but also a massive library that they could use for future revenue streams and the rights to things like the Big Gold Belt, etc. If the Invasion wasn't botched, the deal probably would have netted them quite a bit more, but even so, the tape library alone will payoff the investment for the WWE. With that in mind, there's no way TNA is worth even 1/8th of what WCW was, even at its sad, pathetic end. Honestly, TNA might be worth $500k at most right now, and that's pretty optimistic. Its doesn't have a library anyone would really want (outside of maybe Sting, whose time at TNA means anything to a mainstream audience that would buy a compilation DVD?) and what assets does it own? The only thing of value is the TNA name, and its questionable if even that is worth anything in the bigger picture (as a new outfit would be better off with their own name, instead of leveraging what TNA has built thus far). Add in a bad economy, wrestling not "booming" and everything else and the $400k it was bought for isn't too far off what its worth now. The killer is, despite everyone saying they've made a profit for the past few years, that doesn't mean they paid off the huge debt they accrued when launching the brand initially. There's probably still red on those books, and that will factor into the pricing of the company, as well. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 28, 2010 14:45:57 GMT -5
TNA has something WCW didn't have when it was sold for a pittance, a TV show. Anyone who bought it could keep the company going, WCW never had that so it was sold for next to nothing as no-one else wanted it.
I'm sure the video library alone would be worth more than 500k to Vince, there's footage of Kurt Angle, Sting, Christian, early CM punk, the Dudleys, Jeff Hardy, Hall, Nash, Waltman, Curt Hennig, Mickie James, Booker T, Scott Steiner and so on that could be used on career DVD's and a load of Impacts and PPV's that could be used on the proposed WWE TV channel... Heck, if Vince ever got over himself they could even use the footage of Jarrett and Raven. I doubt TNA is worth megabucks, but as long as it keeps ticking over without losing masses of money the video library will keep gaining value.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Mar 28, 2010 15:43:04 GMT -5
How exactly did negotiations between Spike and WWE go bad? USA offered to pay for WWE programming almost twice what Spike was offering. Once it became apparent that WWE was leaving the network, Spike tried to sandbag the deal between WWE and USA with threats of taking both of them to court which was ironic because USA did the same thing years before. Spike soon found its WWE replacement in a up and coming company called UFC. Commercials soon start airing during Raw basically stating that wrestling was super fake and declaring UFC the future. WWE went along with hyping UFC during Raw. No problem since they were leaving the network soon and didn't care. During the last Spike episode of Raw, WWE tried to announce USA as the new home of Raw. Spike had their censors beep out every mention of it. And not in a way you wouldn't had notice. It soon became a game of chicken with Vince egging on the Coach and Lawler to keep saying it until Spike give up. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2010 15:49:49 GMT -5
I've listened to WO before and I've never heard them say "TNA will be out of business"
I've heard them say, "How does TNA stay in business with this crappy writing?" or "TNA doesn't understand how to run a business."
But I've never heard them actually say they have sources telling them that TNA will be out of business in X months.
I think people misconstrue a lot of what was said.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Mar 28, 2010 20:32:23 GMT -5
It's hard to say Jesse Neal has a unique look when the company also has Shannon Moore. They have different mohawks, hair colours, body types, ring attires, styles, etc. Jesse has more piercings too, if I'm correct and Shannon has more tattoos. The only thing they have in common is a mohawk, and as said above, they have different styles of mohawks. That would be like saying that Brother Ray doesn't have a unique look because the company also has Shannon Moore, as they both have mohawks too. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2010 20:50:45 GMT -5
How exactly did negotiations between Spike and WWE go bad? I've never heard about that before, as far as I heard WWE were offered more money to change networks back so went, spike just couldn't match the offer. WWE asked for a huge jump in the amount they wanted but, Spike wasn't going to pay it and publicly stated they were dropping out leaving USA as the only channel making an offer and causing the amount that USA was willing to pay to plummet. After WWE signed with USA, Spike told WWE they were free to mention they were leaving but, not to mention USA however Spike aired several TNA ads during RAW. After the first, WWE tried all the could to get USA out there. |
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Mar 29, 2010 0:03:56 GMT -5
I'm sure TNA is losing money right now. They couldn't have been making that much of a profit before they signed the big money players they signed over the last year, I can't see how they're not in the red right now. I question whether that equals "financial problems". From what I understand Panda Energy is a very big, very lucrative company. TNA is basically a pet project of the bosses daughter. I imagine they're willing to bankroll something like that even though there are no returns from it for the time being.
Remember, WCW was constantly losing money throughout most of its existence. But Turner didn't care, it was a pet project of his. It wasn't until he was out of the picture that Time Warner finally pulled the plug on them.
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