josh
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 604
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Post by josh on Jul 13, 2010 23:37:50 GMT -5
I'm kind of in the middle of the whole free tv matches debate. I think it's dumb they give them away for free on Impact but it's not the dumbest thing they do to kill business, not by a long shot Well it is when they do little to improve ratings and while there PPVs suffer. You can't expect fans to order a PPV when the matches they want to see are given away for free with no story. It like if you put RVD vs. Joe or Hardy vs. Joe on PPV it has been done for free no so the specialness is lost regardless how good that PPV match is. Other post someone talked about the rematches will draw and somewhat it will. But it not going to have the same effect as the first match on PPV. Example you think Rock vs. Hogan at WM X8 would be as special as it was if they did a one on one match on Raw a couple weeks before it? No. I mean lets look at it like this for real proof. Rock and Hogan was a huge thing for WM X8 it was made that PPV big and the selling point. Did No Way Out in 03 the next year after the first match feel as special? No and heck nobody even talks about that match nor did it have the same rave reviews as the first one. It really a simple business deal going on here. It doesn't take much of a wrestling mind or a business education to figure out how to draw. Right now the only match they can really put on now that could draw a good number. Is really Hardy vs. Angle. Which I can see TNA giving that up on free TV too at the next tappings. I stand by my statement that this whole "first match" rule only applies to dream matches on certain levels. None of these matches listed are at Hogan-Rock tier, Goldberg-Hogan tier or even Joe-Angle tier. The first time two guys meet isn't nearly as important as people like to stress it is. If they completely whored out RVD/Joe every month or so I'd say you have a point, but they don't and I highly doubt they will. Whenver, or if they ever try to make that a high level PPV match the only people making a big deal about it are the people who are just doing it to themselves, whereas to most fans it won't matter. Cena/Orton's first WWE encounter was on Eddie's tribute show yet when it came time for them to finally feud that match was not even thought about, you know?
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Post by slickster on Jul 13, 2010 23:49:35 GMT -5
The Eddie Guerrero tribute show matches did not count for a vast majority of the fans, like how nobody can recall the matches on Tribute to the Troops shows.
It's a lot easier to sell a match on 'first time ever' speculation ("What will happen? How will their contrasting styles work? Who is the bigger star in TNA?") than on having to spend a month writing decent angles for it on TV. 'First time ever' booking is pretty much foolproof: don't have them make extended contact and have your announcers/video production guys put the two over as awesome.
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josh
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 604
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Post by josh on Jul 13, 2010 23:55:27 GMT -5
The Eddie Guerrero tribute show matches did not count for a vast majority of the fans, like how nobody can recall the matches on Tribute to the Troops shows. It's a lot easier to sell a match on 'first time ever' speculation ("What will happen? How will their contrasting styles work? Who is the bigger star in TNA?") than on having to spend a month writing decent angles for it on TV. 'First time ever' booking is pretty much foolproof: don't have them make extended contact and have your announcers/video production guys put the two over as awesome. It's just that when TNA did mainly squash and jobber matches people complained, when they up it to big matches(which I prefer), they complain. People didn't blast WWE for giving us Jericho/Danielson, did they? Danielson/Batista? I'd be willing to bet that pretty soon we would have gotten Danielson/Cena and not on PPV. TNA is in the kind of situation where they can do no right.
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Post by lookout on Jul 14, 2010 0:04:08 GMT -5
It amazes me that tna can use the ecw name in any way and not be sued or stopped by wwe.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Jul 14, 2010 0:04:26 GMT -5
So.. anyone wanna clarify what the ECW guys were referred to as? Dixie didn't actually say "ECW", right? There's no way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 0:11:32 GMT -5
here some more detailed spoiler from wrestlingnewsworld.com {Spoiler}TNA Wrestling taped next week's edition of Impact tonight from Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. Thanks to Wrestling News World Orlando correspondent Tim Capture for providing us with text-message updates. Below are full results:
Xplosion:
* Amazing Red & Suicide vs. Desmond Wolfe w/Chelsea & Brutus Magnus. Winner via assisted Tower of London on Suicide, Desmond Wolfe and Brutus Magnus.
* Eric Young & Orlando Jordan vs. Generation Me. Winners after the More Bang for Your Buck on Orlando Jordan, Generation Me
TNA Impact (Airing next Thursday, July 22, 2010 on Spike TV):
* They're setting up where the audience comes in for a big entrance on camera. Nothing happened at the entrance way
* AJ Styles w/Kazarian vs. Rob Terry for the TNA Global Championship. Winner & new Global Champion, AJ Styles. AJ won with assistance from Kazarian when Kaz tripped Terry on a suplex attempt and Styles fell on Terry.
* Backstage, Sarita and Madison Rayne are making fun of Velvet Sky. The Beautiful People walk in and Velvet gets in Madison's face. Madison says she has to go get ready for her match. Lacey tries to calm Velvet down and says she'll fix this.
* TNA Knockout Women's Champion Angelina Love & Taylor Wilde vs. Madison Rayne & Sarita. Before the match starts, Earl Hebner says there's no proof the person who interfered at Victory Road was one of the Beautiful People, Angelina must relinquish the belt. Winners via Angelina's finisher on Madison, Angelina Love & Taylor Wilde. After the match the Masked Rider rides out and distracts Angelina and Taylor so that Sarita and Madison can beat them up. The Beautiful People watched this all go down from the ramp. After the beat down, Madison gets on the bike with the rider and yells at the Beautiful People to join her but Velvet does not. The Masked Rider, Madison, Sarita and Lacey leave together.
* The ECW guys are shown arriving to the Impact Zone.
* Hernandez vs. Kurt Angle. Winner via Ankle Lock, Kurt Angle
* After the match, Kevin Nash comes out. He gets on the mic and calls out Jeff Jarrett. He says he saw him earlier and wants to talk to him so come out and see Big Sexy. Jarrett comes to the ring. Nash says something didn't feel right. He says Jarrett is amazing and he's good at what he does. He almost believed Sting left the log in the punch bowl. Nash remembers when Sting would let him stay with him when he was starting out so he thinks Jarrett left the log in the punch bowl. Jarrett says he doesn't know what he's talking about. He says Nash hurt the company by going around Hogan to get Hall and X-Pace signed. Nash says he's already come to his conclusion but has a question for him. When his three daughters grow up and realize he's a p----, why don't you juggle that in your sleep?
* Samoa Joe vs. Jeff Hardy. Time limit draw. Joe and Jeff fight after the bell and the referees have to break it up.
* Matt Morgan vs. Mr. Anderson. Winner via Mic Check, Mr. Anderson. Some kid ran in the ring and celebrated with Anderson and almost got wiped out when Morgan attacked Anderson. The kid was not supposed to run in. Morgan is now beating Anderson with the mic and Anderson is busted open. The kid will have to be shown on TV, no way to re-tape it with Anderson bloody now.
* Match 2 in a Best of 5 Street Fight - Beer Money, Inc. vs. The Motor City Machine Guns. Winner after a beer bottle to the head of Alex Shelley, Beer Money Inc. Beer Money is up 2 to 0 in the best of 5.
* Backstage, Christy Hemme is interviewing Rob Van Dam about the ECW invasion. RVD says it was awesome and it felt like home. Those times were where he became the Whole F'N Show and to have them here while he's champ is awesome. Christy asks what he thinks Dixie's announcement in the ring later will be. RVD doesn't know but hopes it's good news.
* Dixie Carter comes to the ring for a big announcement. She has her own music and entrance video. She says the company is about the fans. Her favorite part of her job is getting feedback from the fans. The thing that always comes up is the fans love of hardcore wrestling. She brings out Tommy Dreamer, Rhino, Raven, Stevie Richards and Mick Foley. Dixie says she has so much respect for them and brought them here to address the fans. Foley gets on the mic and points out this is her first time doing this. Dixie says this is not a promo but her being real. She says these guys were a major part of wrestling in ECW. It's not just about being hardcore but about a love for the business. She thanks them for their love of the business and their parts in making TNA what it is. Foley thanks her for giving them another chance to make an impression. Dreamer says he watched TNA from the beginning. He had friends tell him to come over but he couldn't because he needed the financial security to support his kids. He compares TNA to early ECW. He thanks Dixie for bringing him here to see passion. He then craps on the new ECW and starts crying about what a disgrace it became. He says this is not about an invasion, it's about the fans who chant it, for the friends who lived it give them one night to show the fans what it really was about. Dixie asks the fans if she should do it. They cheer for it. She says only one condition: these guys run it and control it. Dreamer says they're going extreme. Abyss comes out to say they are not happy. Not only are they not happy but they're d--- right pissed off. This was never supposed to happen. They hold only one person responsible: you Dixie Carter. So they instructed him to have some girl on girl action because his girl Janice (the nail board) wants a piece of her. RVD runs out and takes out Abyss before he can get to Dixie. Then Devon comes out with weapons and all the ECW guys beat up on him and give him their finishers. The end of it is RVD frog splashing Abyss through a table.
Dark Match:
* Okada vs. Brian Kendrick. Winner via leg lariat/moonsault pin combo, Brian Kendrick.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Jul 14, 2010 0:19:39 GMT -5
The ECW storyline is interesting but I really think that if TNA *is* mentioning the name "ECW" over and over that this will get them in legal trouble for sure. So it's puzzling why they would do that.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Jul 14, 2010 0:20:45 GMT -5
So is it safe to say that the OJ push is over?
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josh
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 604
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Post by josh on Jul 14, 2010 0:28:37 GMT -5
So is it safe to say that the OJ push is over? Orlando's nipples are "they"
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jul 14, 2010 0:35:45 GMT -5
You know, intelligent wrestling fans can see that this ECW invasion isn't a conscious rip-off of Nexus. It's obvious that this was planned for quite a while, but to the casual fan, isn't that what he's going to assume?
WWE does an invasion-style angle and TNA answers back with one of their own only a few weeks back. Again, not a conscious effort, but man, the timing on this isn't very good.
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metylerca
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Don't be alarmed.
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Post by metylerca on Jul 14, 2010 1:01:32 GMT -5
And thus we have the obligatory WWE-dig of the evening. If the next time Joe/Hardy happens is in a year, things will most def. be different. But if they throw Joe/Hardy on No Surrender or BFG, it'll take away some steam from the allure of a first match, because people will point to their match on Impact. Granted, at least this was a time-limit draw so there's a chance this might build up more interest in a PPV match. So, yes. I agree with you here, I just dislike the idea that "If you're not always pro-TNA, you're a hater, therefore I'll treat you as such." TNA's not perfect, accept it. That was hardly a WWE dig, it was actually a reference to how their main event scene repeats matches, including matches we've gotten on free TV. I never said it was a bad thing, so quit trying to spin my words around. I disagree with your statement that if they threw it on a PPV even a few months down the line it'd hurt the build as long as the build was good. The build to a PPV is what matters, I don't care if I saw the match two weeks ago(Angle/AJ on the Jan 4th show and again at Genesis and those weren't even their first two encounters) is the perfect example of this. I've never once in my entire existence claimed TNA was perfect, if you'll go over my posts I even acknowledge their obvious criticism targets but I say this isn't one of them. So don't twist my words or ignore certain things I say to try to help your point out. Bringing up the stale-WWE main event scene in a TNA thread to boost one's argument is pretty much a dig, no matter how it's spun. I'm not trying to be personal, and I guess it's hard to detect emotion through the internet, but I do agree with you to an extent. However, it does seem that you've taken a lot of the TNA criticism lately as a personal offense, which is nowhere near people are going with their complaints. If Hardy/Joe was to happen in a few months, they can go back to this match as a spawn point for it. Thing is, imagine if they had a PPV time-limit draw. It'd be that much more important than a random throwaway Impact match. One other thing you state is how you wouldn't care if you'd already seen the match before, it wouldn't matter. That's fine and dandy, but I'd liken it to you already having made up your mind on watching TNA PPV's regardless. TNA's buyrates (or fictional buyrates) are so low right now, and this is probably one of the big reasons. Nothing seems important. And I'm sure the ones who support TNA all the way will order the shows no matter what's on them. WWE has the same fans, that's how they never get below 100,000 buys. But what TNA should shoot for, further than just their die-hard audience, is the rest of the wrestling fans out there. While someone who is following TNA every week and accepting it for what it is, there's seemingly twice as many people who can be swayed or pushed away based on how the television plays out. So throwing out PPV-calibur matches on Impact serves as a catch 22 of sorts. It's true that their TV show can build the reputation of putting out the best matches, and that's good to a point. But then it makes the PPV's seem essentially worthless, moreso, because they're not treated as important as their TV show. I'm well aware of WHY things are like this with TNA, but I'm positive that the writers are smart enough to realize that they can maximize their PPV potential if they save the big matches for the big shows. That would make PPV's seem important, and if they build up matches on television coherently, then Impact would also serve it's purpose to get you to buy the PPV. Something they havent' really done.
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Post by amanderson on Jul 14, 2010 1:05:58 GMT -5
I figure they probably said the letters ECW at the tapings, but the letters will probably be edited out during the Thursdays broadcast. Either way, I think the angle is going to be great.
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AriadosMan
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Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Jul 14, 2010 1:06:16 GMT -5
Y'know, at this point TNA might as well wave the white flag on the 12 PPVs a year thing and just do 4-6 a year. It would give them more time to build storylines AND it would finally give the "TNA NEEDS to sell this!!!" rhetoric a rest. Because I'm pretty certain at this point most of their $$$ comes from TV contracts anyway. Might as well just run with it.
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Post by slickster on Jul 14, 2010 1:53:04 GMT -5
TNA's contracted to do 12 PPVs a year, so they couldn't just stop running them even if they wanted to. Hey, remember the time Rhino told us ECW was dead and he supposedly burned his ECW Championship in a garbage can? www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOI7zlY6CsE
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Post by Parker Stiles on Jul 14, 2010 2:12:10 GMT -5
i think it has a better chance to work for TNA with the ECW thing due to them being able to book more guys.
But they need to let it die really. I wouldn't mind one more show. bring in Justin Credible, Shane Douglas, Sabu, Sandman.
Needs Heyman to work though
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Post by Sparvid on Jul 14, 2010 2:43:27 GMT -5
So.. anyone wanna clarify what the ECW guys were referred to as? Dixie didn't actually say "ECW", right? There's no way. Why not? How many times have they not said "Look! It's the wrestler formerly known as X, but now wants to be called Y!" Obviously, they can't call it an ECW PPV, but saying that so-and-so used to work for this or that promotion in the past sounds like a statement of fact to me. If WWE wanted to say that CM Punk is a former ROH champion, they could. But it wouldn't be much point to do it, other than giving a competitor free advertising. Oh, and as Dreamer and Dixie pointed out, it's not an invasion. They were invited, and have Dixie's approval.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 14, 2010 2:47:37 GMT -5
So the PPV title change is meaningless, the Knockout tag titles may or may not have been won but some random pairing of Angelina and Taylor and and oh yeah, the only Knockout not involved in this is Daffney, proving once and for all that TNA don't give a crap about her. Did I miss anything?
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jul 14, 2010 3:05:14 GMT -5
So the PPV title change is meaningless, the Knockout tag titles may or may not have been won but some random pairing of Angelina and Taylor and and oh yeah, the only Knockout not involved in this is Daffney, proving once and for all that TNA don't give a crap about her. Did I miss anything? The titles weren't defended.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 14, 2010 3:07:57 GMT -5
So the PPV title change is meaningless, the Knockout tag titles may or may not have been won but some random pairing of Angelina and Taylor and and oh yeah, the only Knockout not involved in this is Daffney, proving once and for all that TNA don't give a crap about her. Did I miss anything? The titles weren't defended. Excuse me for being confused when it says that they were.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jul 14, 2010 3:10:33 GMT -5
The titles weren't defended. Excuse me for being confused when it says that they were. I thought they were to, but a more detailed report on this thread didn't say anything about the tag titles being defended.
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