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Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
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Post by Square on Dec 30, 2010 15:30:29 GMT -5
Is that normal in the US, the idea of not being able to do more than one sport? Our school only had a football team. Would have had to look elsewhere ifI had wanted to play anything else. Really, I played rugby and cricket and there were people that did football and other sports on top of that
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Post by Mattification on Dec 30, 2010 15:35:06 GMT -5
Our school only had a football team. Would have had to look elsewhere ifI had wanted to play anything else. Really, I played rugby and cricket and there were people that did football and other sports on top of that We got a rugby session (maybe 2) in first or second year, then never again. Same for cricket, javelin (1 javelin between 25 was an exciting day) and no doubt a few others that I've forgotten about.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Dec 30, 2010 15:37:03 GMT -5
So how come you lose passion? I turned 9. I LOL'ed good sir.
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Post by FrankGotch on Dec 30, 2010 15:48:45 GMT -5
"Well for one thing, I would say that a general understanding of American football can be picked in a few minutes. Sure there are obscure rules etc, but then that applies to any sport."
Just by making this statement you've proven that you don't understand American football. There is no way on earth that anyone could be expected pick up even most of the basic rules within minutes of watching.
Do you honestly think that soccer teams don't employ complicated tactics and formations? Everything you said there, with the exception of the terminology could also be applied to soccer, and many other sports as well.
Soccer game planning and coach involvement is NOTHING like football. Yes Soccer has plays and strategies but the techniques employed in soccer are more equitable to basketball rather than football. In football intricate game planning is just as important as the quality of athletes on the field. I'm sorry but if you are making this comparison you don't know much about the sport of football.
Also, American football is on TV here all the time. While it doesn't get the same coverage as other sports on the news for example, it's a well known sport so assuming that Europeans only see it on Youtube would be incorrect.
I didn't assume that Europeans only saw football on youtube. My point was that unless they are sitting down, and taking in full multiple games on a yearly basis they are not going to understand the game very well.
"Which pretty much sums up my point here. While there's little doubt the OP has moved away from 'look at this silly article' and into trolling, it would be hard to argue that you haven't fallen into the same trap. Your complaint to him is that he is ignorant on the subject, yet your last few posts are also based on assumptions and cultural stereotypes."
No what I have done is used common sense. Much like Soccer in America its a well known fact that most Europeans don't follow football with a great deal of interest. And given the nature of the game of football there is no reason to assume that anyone even a casual American fan would understand a lot of what goes on during a game. Football is the worlds most complex team sport period. And I guarantee that anyone who is familiar with, or who has ever played some of the more popular world sports would agree.
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Post by Mattification on Dec 30, 2010 16:14:09 GMT -5
Just by making this statement you've proven that you don't understand American football. There is no way on earth that anyone could be expected pick up even most of the basic rules within minutes of watching.
That you've taken this of proof of anything demonstrates my point that alot of your points have been based on assumption. The last sentence of this quote is plain odd. What do you determine is basic? Is it enough to infringe upon their enjoyment of the game? When I first decided to make an effort with American football, I did it with someone who had played it (it was over here, so was amateur). I sat and watched a game. Obviously I wasn't fluent with the rule book by the end of it, but getting to grips with the game did not take long at all.
Soccer game planning and coach involvement is NOTHING like football. Yes Soccer has plays and strategies but the techniques employed in soccer are more equitable to basketball rather than football. In football intricate game planning is just as important as the quality of athletes on the field. I'm sorry but if you are making this comparison you don't know much about the sport of football.
You don't know that any of this is true.
I didn't assume that Europeans only saw football on youtube. My point was that unless they are sitting down, and taking in full multiple games on a yearly basis they are not going to understand the game very well.
The thing is, they can. They show American Football games here all the time. I maybe mistaken but it seems to me that you think that anyone who doesn't like the game, just doesn't 'get it' or understand it rather than just doesn't find it entertaining.
No what I have done is used common sense. Much like Soccer in America its a well known fact that most Europeans don't follow football with a great deal of interest. And given the nature of the game of football there is no reason to assume that anyone even a casual American fan would understand a lot of what goes on during a game. Football is the worlds most complex team sport period. And I guarantee that anyone who is familiar with, or who has ever played some of the more popular world sports would agree.
Massively sweeping statements agogo. I'm sorry, but if people can't judge American Football without fully understanding it, you can't decid what sports you've never watched or played are less complex.
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Post by ScottishProWrestling on Dec 30, 2010 16:17:48 GMT -5
If you want to support a team, do the hat choice. All teams in the top 4 leagues in a hat pick one out and support them to death! Thats how I'm stuck with Kansas City Royals as my baseball team Makes more sense than the article I posted, aslong as you go totally hardcore haha.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Dec 30, 2010 16:20:04 GMT -5
If you want to support a team, do the hat choice. All teams in the top 4 leagues in a hat pick one out and support them to death! Thats how I'm stuck with Kansas City Royals as my baseball team Makes more sense than the article I posted, aslong as you go totally hardcore haha. I so want to hear an American go "GO BRIGHTON AND HOVE ALBION!" or Scunny!
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sryans
Don Corleone
BROOKLYN, BROOKLYN
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Post by sryans on Dec 30, 2010 16:24:01 GMT -5
Let me reiterate, I was a college soccer athlete, and I played tight end in high school, and football is exponentially more complex.
Soccer is more of a game plan type strategizing from coaches as well as what substitutions to make and when. In football, every play has so many factors going into it, it is totally incomprehensible to someone who has not watched for a long enough time.
I have played both soccer and football, and I love both, but football is infinitely more complex.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2010 16:26:50 GMT -5
We care more about sports than you'll ever know kid.
And as for the "picking a club" thing, that's because they show Premier games over here on ESPN2, and for people that have no vested interest it helps you decide who you would like the most. We don't do that for our sports.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2010 16:29:27 GMT -5
Didn't have a flag football league in 2nd grade, but they did in 3rd. Is that normal in the US, the idea of not being able to do more than one sport? NOt at all, a lot of people do multiple sports in school. It just so happens that, often, soccer drops off as one of them beyond a certain age.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2010 16:33:23 GMT -5
Is that normal in the US, the idea of not being able to do more than one sport? NOt at all, a lot of people do multiple sports in school. It just so happens that, often, soccer drops off as one of them beyond a certain age. It's true. I played soccer in elementary school, but then I got into football and basketball, and soccer went away for me.
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Post by ScottishProWrestling on Dec 30, 2010 16:47:20 GMT -5
It would take some serious going to create a team to compete with the current Spanish side, who are, arguably the best side in history. Basketball, Hockey and Baseball aren't minority sports? Good luck finding them a regular tv slot before 2am or drawing fans (outside of a potential one off NBA game) of any decent number in Europe, South America, Africa and most of Asia then. You might want to do some research South America, and most of Asia are basketball crazy. Baseball is also big in Japan, Central, and South America. Also like I said before if Americans gave a crap about soccer we'd be at or near the top just like every other sport. Its just the way that our country is set up, we are great at turning out world class athletes. Heck the funniest thing about this thread is that for all your criticizing the US soccer team is still worlds better then your own national team. You might find that I praised the US side actually. Our side isn't that bad, just managed from Board level to team management by a bunch of backward monkeys!
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@TenaciousBe
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Post by @TenaciousBe on Dec 30, 2010 16:52:41 GMT -5
I don't get how this is even a question -- the complexity of football vs. soccer. Football is a chess game, with the added difficulty of your live athlete pieces sometimes not doing what you told them to do, sometime being outmuscled by the opponent's pieces, sometimes giving up the advantage due to simple human error. Soccer is a free-flowing continuously moving game with a little more abstract coaching / strategy. Doesn't make one sport "better" than the other, but to deny football's complexity in the face of facts is simply astounding.
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Post by FrankGotch on Dec 30, 2010 16:57:07 GMT -5
That you've taken this of proof of anything demonstrates my point that alot of your points have been based on assumption. The last sentence of this quote is plain odd. What do you determine is basic? Is it enough to infringe upon their enjoyment of the game? When I first decided to make an effort with American football, I did it with someone who had played it (it was over here, so was amateur). I sat and watched a game. Obviously I wasn't fluent with the rule book by the end of it, but getting to grips with the game did not take long at all.
Basic rules. What constitutes a hold? Why is one form of face mask 5 yards and another 15? How far must an onside kick go before it is eligible to be recovered by the kicking team. If the ball is spotted at the five and a field goal kicker misses where is the ball re spotted for the other team to take over? How far can a receiver go before the defensive back is no longer allowed to touch him? What constitutes intentional grounding? What is illegal motion by a receiver? Can you kick an onside kick after a safety?I could go on and on and on all day. These are just a few of a plethora of basic rules that you are libel to encounter in any game. Like I said before there is no way that you can expect anyone to grasp a lot of what goes on in a game after only limited viewing. Much less pick the game up in minutes like you claim.
You don't know that any of this is true.
Yes I do I have played all three sports at a high level, have coached both football and soccer and I am well aware of the rules and the play designs that these sport generally employ. Soccer, and Basketball both rely heavily on improvising on the run. Their play books focus more on controlling general zones, and really only employ specific tactical maneuvers on inbound plays. Football on the other hand uses a highly specific play book that is designed so that every move a player makes is a specific tactical maneuver meant to counter act the play that the other coach has called. Football more than any other sport is controlled by the strategy of the coach as much as the skill of the players.
The thing is, they can. They show American Football games here all the time. I maybe mistaken but it seems to me that you think that anyone who doesn't like the game, just doesn't 'get it' or understand it rather than just doesn't find it entertaining.
That is my point to a large degree. Like I have been saying football is a complex game that takes a long time, and repeated viewing to fully appreciate, and understand. Unless you have grown up with it as part of your culture, or played the game chances are that you will not be willing to invest the time into learning such a complicated game. Especially if you find it boring, and I can understand how someone who is used to watching a game like soccer could find footballs constant time outs and stoppages a bit drab. I can't blame any European if they don't like football , but at the same time I'm not going to take their criticizing to heart since most probably haven't spent a whole heap of time learning the game.
Massively sweeping statements agogo. I'm sorry, but if people can't judge American Football without fully understanding it, you can't decid what sports you've never watched or played are less complex.
For the record I have watched, played and or coached soccer, football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, and I have also been an armature boxer for many years. I have played baseball, football, and soccer what I would consider high levels. I not saying that to brag just trying to give you an idea of my athletic background.
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Post by Mattification on Dec 30, 2010 17:46:45 GMT -5
Basic rules. What constitutes a hold? Why is one form of face mask 5 yards and another 15? How far must an onside kick go before it is eligible to be recovered by the kicking team. If the ball is spotted at the five and a field goal kicker misses where is the ball re spotted for the other team to take over? How far can a receiver go before the defensive back is no longer allowed to touch him? What constitutes intentional grounding? What is illegal motion by a receiver? Can you kick an onside kick after a safety?I could go on and on and on all day. These are just a few of a plethora of basic rules that you are libel to encounter in any game. Like I said before there is no way that you can expect anyone to grasp a lot of what goes on in a game after only limited viewing. Much less pick the game up in minutes like you claim.
I said they could get a general grasp of the game in a few minutes (Note* not simply viewing). I stand by this. Not knowing any of these rules is hardly going to impact on someone's enjoyment of the game. So if theyu can enjoy the game without knowing these rules, why can't they dislike it?
Yes I do I have played all three sports at a high level, have coached both football and soccer and I am well aware of the rules and the play designs that these sport generally employ. Soccer, and Basketball both rely heavily on improvising on the run. Their play books focus more on controlling general zones, and really only employ specific tactical maneuvers on inbound plays. Football on the other hand uses a highly specific play book that is designed so that every move a player makes is a specific tactical maneuver meant to counter act the play that the other coach has called. Football more than any other sport is controlled by the strategy of the coach as much as the skill of the players.
This comes down to what is deemed as complex. Having plays worked out before hand or coming up with stuff on the fly. While I certainly would't argue that an American football 'playbook' would be far thicker than a soccer one, I don't think that it proves it's a more complex game. Just has more varieties of formations.
That is my point to a large degree. Like I have been saying football is a complex game that takes a long time, and repeated viewing to fully appreciate, and understand. Unless you have grown up with it as part of your culture, or played the game chances are that you will not be willing to invest the time into learning such a complicated game. Especially if you find it boring, and I can understand how someone who is used to watching a game like soccer could find footballs constant time outs and stoppages a bit drab. I can't blame any European if they don't like football , but at the same time I'm not going to take their criticizing to heart since most probably haven't spent a whole heap of time learning the game.
You kind of contradict yourself here. You understand that those used to a different type of game may not like American football, but previously asserted that people only dislike the game because they don't understand it. Just like the reason Americans haven't taken to soccer isn't because they don't know the rules.
For the record I have watched, played and or coached soccer, football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, and I have also been an armature boxer for many years. I have played baseball, football, and soccer what I would consider high levels. I not saying that to brag just trying to give you an idea of my athletic background.
I would argue that tactics at the highest level of soccer would be far more complex than you will have experienced, but to be fair I don't know what you have experienced.
Regardless though, playing and coaching 6 sports at what you consider a high level still doesn't put you in a position to say what is or isn't the world's most complex team sport. Just like I'm in no position to say, though I'm not claiming otherwise.
To be honest, I'm not particularly arguing your points (American football may well be the world's most complex team sport), but rather the sweeping statements being made on occasion in this thread.
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Dec 30, 2010 18:00:07 GMT -5
and this concludes the bi-monthly circular english football vs american football conversation.
please check back next time for exactly the same arguements.
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Post by thesam07 on Dec 31, 2010 7:59:28 GMT -5
The correct answer is Slamball.
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