Tarik Dee
Hank Scorpio
I loved you before I even ever knew what love was like
Posts: 5,233
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Post by Tarik Dee on Dec 30, 2010 0:19:17 GMT -5
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Dec 30, 2010 0:34:42 GMT -5
Very good list. I for one was very annoyed with the whole Conan/Leno debate. Yea the poor guy lost his show, but did you see how much he received for it? Cry me a river.
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h
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,734
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Post by h on Dec 30, 2010 0:49:34 GMT -5
I'm not a Jay Leno fan, but he's made me laugh a few times. Nowhere near as much as O'Brien and Letterman, though.
The thing that bugged me the most about the situation is that the timeslot had little to do with the problems with Leno's new show. People will watch Jay Leno. The format of the show doomed it from day one, though.
Here's the standard formula for a talk show: 1) Opening monologue 2) Stupid crap that is entertaining because it's stupid crap 3) Special guest 4) Musical guest
The format has worked for years. There's no reason to change it. Here's how Leno's new show looked, though:
1) A little bit of Jay Leno 2) An unfunny guest host who takes over the show for 15 to 20 agonizing minutes while Jay Leno seemingly takes a coffee break 3) Who knows? I never made it past the stupid guest host.
I could have solved the problem for NBC for a hell of a lot less than $45 million.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 30, 2010 0:53:34 GMT -5
Very good list. I for one was very annoyed with the whole Conan/Leno debate. Yea the poor guy lost his show, but did you see how much he received for it? Cry me a river. Which he gave a large portion of to his staff because they got jacked over.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Dec 30, 2010 1:30:08 GMT -5
Very good list. I for one was very annoyed with the whole Conan/Leno debate. Yea the poor guy lost his show, but did you see how much he received for it? Cry me a river. Which he gave a large portion of to his staff because they got jacked over. Yeah, and he is a rich, Harvard educated celebrity, but it was his dream to host The Tonight Show, and he got boned out of doing it after a few months because of really corny circumstances. Seeing someone's dream deflated tends to be a little offputting, particularly when that someone is as funny and likeable as Conan, and the beneficiary is someone as bland and formulaic as Jay Leno. Should anyone feel bad for him? Not really. But it was a crappy situation that was mostly out of his control.
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Post by willywonka666 on Dec 30, 2010 10:23:17 GMT -5
Thank God Cracked explained this to everyone. Seriously. Only a handful of people seemingly ever understood that Jay Leno was not the bad guy in this situation.
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Post by FrankGotch on Dec 30, 2010 12:57:41 GMT -5
These explanations were pretty good, the one they linked about EBM not so much. But anyway I'm glad they posted Leno Connan since I remember spending entirely too much time on this forum trying to explain to people why Leno wasn't the devil incarnate.
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Dec 30, 2010 13:15:23 GMT -5
My whole problem with the war for late night had more to do with Jeff Zucker. Now I realized he was between a rock and a hard place in that losing Leno or Conan would help divide the late night audience even more and cause NBC headaches. That being said, Zucker's biggest mistake wasn't replacing Leno with Conan or re-replacing Conan with Leno. What he should've done was in 2004 was to chose one or the other definitively to host the Tonight Show and just wish the other well in their future endeveaurs after their contract expired. Instead Zucker tried to act like Solomon but this time instead of determing the true king of late night, it ended up giving both Leno and Conan half a baby.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,699
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Post by Glitch on Dec 30, 2010 13:44:39 GMT -5
The article was right in the fact that leno wasn't as bad as the media made him out to be. But Leno wasn't completely innocent considering he agreed to take the 10 o'clock timeslot that would cut off a huge chunk of other shows on nbc. I was actually mad about that way before the whole Conan fiasco began. Leno knew he would be limiting how much work actors were getting from nbc.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2010 13:49:06 GMT -5
The article was right in the fact that leno wasn't as bad as the media made him out to be. But Leno wasn't completely innocent considering he agreed to take the 10 o'clock timeslot that would cut off a huge chunk of other shows on nbc. I was actually mad about that way before the whole Conan fiasco began. Leno knew he would be limiting how much work actors were getting from nbc. But you also have to realize that it's not just Leno that'd be out, it's all his production crew as well. Conan is praised for looking after his production crew, if Leno had left (and it could have been done in a way that'd get him no money), then his entire crew would have been fired as well.
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Post by willywonka666 on Dec 30, 2010 13:51:23 GMT -5
NBC should have just left everything alone. Conan wasn't complaining and Leno didn't want to retire. They just thought they should do something to avoid the mess that happened when carson left and the fact is there wasn't a problem.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Dec 30, 2010 14:07:48 GMT -5
Thank God Cracked explained this to everyone. Seriously. Only a handful of people seemingly ever understood that Jay Leno was not the bad guy in this situation. I disagree. Jay Leno was the piece of shit the second he took the 10pm slot. He couldn't leave well enough, and he couldn't ride into the sunset like he was supposed to. He f***ed everything up. He signed on the dotted line. He chose to undercut not only conan but the sanctity of the tonight show, and honestly? It's not the first time he did it. He did it to Letterman too. He's a selfish prick. Regardless of how kind that Cracked article paints him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2010 14:51:00 GMT -5
Thank God Cracked explained this to everyone. Seriously. Only a handful of people seemingly ever understood that Jay Leno was not the bad guy in this situation. I disagree. Jay Leno was the piece of s*** the second he took the 10pm slot. He couldn't leave well enough, and he couldn't ride into the sunset like he was supposed to. He f***ed everything up. He signed on the dotted line. He chose to undercut not only conan but the sanctity of the tonight show, and honestly? It's not the first time he did it. He did it to Letterman too. He's a selfish prick. Regardless of how kind that Cracked article paints him. Tell us how you really feel. Cracked gets a lot of stuff wrong, but this time they got it correct. And I'm not some Leno apologist either. I watch only Craig Ferguson and (sometimes) Letterman.
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Post by FrankGotch on Dec 30, 2010 14:59:10 GMT -5
Thank God Cracked explained this to everyone. Seriously. Only a handful of people seemingly ever understood that Jay Leno was not the bad guy in this situation. I disagree. Jay Leno was the piece of s*** the second he took the 10pm slot. He couldn't leave well enough, and he couldn't ride into the sunset like he was supposed to. He f***ed everything up. He signed on the dotted line. He chose to undercut not only conan but the sanctity of the tonight show, and honestly? It's not the first time he did it. He did it to Letterman too. He's a selfish prick. Regardless of how kind that Cracked article paints him. Leno never planed to retire, and ride into the sunset. He was forced out by NBC, because they were afraid that Connan would leave for FOX if he didn't get the Tonight Show. So they promised him the TS and forced Jay out. Jay's 10pm slot was again NBC's fault. They signed Leno to that contract because they didn't want him going to FOX either. In fact the reason this whole mess got started was because NBC wanted to keep both Connan and Leno. If they had been willing to cut ties with one or the other none of this would have happened in the first place.
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Post by Curt Hawkins Fan on Dec 30, 2010 15:10:43 GMT -5
This list seems to be pretty biased toward a certain form of opinion. Except for the dun goofed thing but that was just silly.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Dec 30, 2010 15:23:45 GMT -5
I disagree. Jay Leno was the piece of s*** the second he took the 10pm slot. He couldn't leave well enough, and he couldn't ride into the sunset like he was supposed to. He f***ed everything up. He signed on the dotted line. He chose to undercut not only conan but the sanctity of the tonight show, and honestly? It's not the first time he did it. He did it to Letterman too. He's a selfish prick. Regardless of how kind that Cracked article paints him. Leno never planed to retire, and ride into the sunset. He was forced out by NBC, because they were afraid that Connan would leave for FOX if he didn't get the Tonight Show. So they promised him the TS and forced Jay out. Jay's 10pm slot was again NBC's fault. They signed Leno to that contract because they didn't want him going to FOX either. In fact the reason this whole mess got started was because NBC wanted to keep both Connan and Leno. If they had been willing to cut ties with one or the other none of this would have happened in the first place. Leno didn't start teasing a move to other networks until after he had already had regrets about his decision to retire. He changed his mind, and rather than get let Conan grow and find his own audience at the tonight show against Leno and Letterman, NBC decided to retain him. I agree, NBC shares a lot of blame in this, but Leno is a total dickfart on every single level imaginable. There is a reason both Kimmel and Letterman demolished him on air every single night during the Late Night War. He's a smarmy prick who's word means jack shit. Conan was left with one decision by the time Leno handcuffed him completely: Tarnish the tradition of The Tonight Show, or leave. He acted honorably, something Leno never could have done.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,417
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 30, 2010 17:47:29 GMT -5
Thank God Cracked explained this to everyone. Seriously. Only a handful of people seemingly ever understood that Jay Leno was not the bad guy in this situation. Seconded. Conan's fanboys never even tried to understand what happened. He and a few others decided Leno was EVIL and that was that
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Post by eJm on Dec 30, 2010 17:55:05 GMT -5
My whole problem with the war for late night had more to do with Jeff Zucker. Now I realized he was between a rock and a hard place in that losing Leno or Conan would help divide the late night audience even more and cause NBC headaches. That being said, Zucker's biggest mistake wasn't replacing Leno with Conan or re-replacing Conan with Leno. What he should've done was in 2004 was to chose one or the other definitively to host the Tonight Show and just wish the other well in their future endeveaurs after their contract expired. Instead Zucker tried to act like Solomon but this time instead of determing the true king of late night, it ended up giving both Leno and Conan half a baby. I'm reading The War of Late Night by Bill Carter (it's Bill Carter writing about late night TV again, so it's obviously damn good) and really, Zucker was in the wrong but it wasn't like he wasn't trying something that didn't work. With examples he'd do with NBC News and The Today Show, he's used to removing guys in their prime from the successful ratings powerhouses and substituting them with people who would keep the boat going as high. It's a very business thing to do and kind of lousy if it falls apart after the honeymoon period, but it worked for him so he tried to do the same thing with late night. Obviously, it turned into a massacre which pretty much was the straw that broke the camel's back on his job but he's not a complete idiot...just a plain average idiot. And yeah, both guys were kind of screwed but NBC also was too. If they didn't try to give him The Tonight Show as an insentive, ABC and FOX would have jumped all over him and offered him a prime spot. If Jay went after his contract was done, there would be a guarenteed ratings hit gone to another network and it would have possibly hurt Conan's start just as it did do. Again, it was one big giant mess Zucker was too headstrong to not avoid. Especially since everyone involved, quite explicitly, said they didn't want a Dave/Jay situation again. And they got themselves into an even worse situation.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2010 17:57:59 GMT -5
Leno never planed to retire, and ride into the sunset. He was forced out by NBC, because they were afraid that Connan would leave for FOX if he didn't get the Tonight Show. So they promised him the TS and forced Jay out. Jay's 10pm slot was again NBC's fault. They signed Leno to that contract because they didn't want him going to FOX either. In fact the reason this whole mess got started was because NBC wanted to keep both Connan and Leno. If they had been willing to cut ties with one or the other none of this would have happened in the first place. There is a reason both Kimmel and Letterman demolished him on air every single night during the Late Night War. That reason being that they're competitors who can use the entire brou-ha-ha for their own gain. Don't act like they exploiting it for short-term ratings boost and instead were just experience total moral outrage.
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Post by pink on Dec 30, 2010 18:41:09 GMT -5
Damn, that 4chan thing is just evil.
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