Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,076
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 29, 2010 11:00:48 GMT -5
I don't see how Punk is sympathetic at all. I'm not saying that Jeff Hardy really is, but about 99% of the time, people excuse Punk's dickhole character as "He's right because he's Straight Edge and everyone else on the planet is a druggie!"
His feuds aren't even so much with other wrestlers anymore. They're all with the in-arena fans.
Hard to really feel bad for a guy who loves being the bad guy, then still wants to insult the fans for not worshipping him.
Not saying he's not doing his job, just that he's really not a sympathetic figure.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,482
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 29, 2010 11:23:46 GMT -5
Mike Knox vs anyone over Kelly Kelly. His girlfriend likes to strip for everyone. He dislikes that, and *he* is the bad guy?
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Nov 29, 2010 11:31:36 GMT -5
I'm not the only one who heard boos anytime Edge was onscreen with Paul on SmackDown this past Friday, right?
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,913
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Post by fw91 on Nov 29, 2010 11:40:31 GMT -5
HBK during his feud with Hogan. I always thought he was the "better man," and up until his retirement he was never really put into that elite group of Hogans, flairs, austins etc.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 29, 2010 11:43:54 GMT -5
Some counterpoints: - Punk wasn't supposed to be booed for cashing in on Jeff. At that stage, it was officially a face-on-face feud. But when he started whining about his "injured" eye and began a campaign of self-righteous preaching in spite of Jeff (the character) admitting he had made mistakes and was working to redeem himself, that's when he became the villain. - By all accounts HBK was a new man, but Jericho just wouldn't let the past go- making him look like a hypocrite himself, due to all the times he's bounced between being a fan favorite and being a selfish jerk. His complaints about Cena's playing to crowds hold no water considering he spent much of his career doing the exact same thing, including some of his catchphrase-happy heel runs. And kayfabe-wise, the WWE Legends make appearances partly because they want to and also to advise the younger superstars. But Jericho held up the example of a fictional character -Randy the Ram- as the basis of his argument, as if all legends were just like the Mickey Rourke character. - Vickie is a gold digging, loudmouthed shrew who only cares about herself. Edge and Ziggler are/were her meal tickets rather than true lovers. - Kane lied about the assault on his brother, and bullied his way to the WHC based on a phony "investigation". Edge's kidnapping of Bearer isn't justifiable in itself, but he's admittedly not a nice guy to begin with. - Bret Hart mistook the fans' love of Steve Austin's toughness and tenacity for alleged love of his misdeeds. From there, he let his paranoia about apparent mistreatment by WWF management (which is silly when you look at how hard Bret was marketed and promoted as the face of the company from 1994-1996) boil over into a half-assed argument that the shrinking of his spotlight was a national thing. And the more he baited the U.S fans, the more they fought back by booing him. Basically, Bret started it. - Neither Rey or Punk had moral superiority in their feud. Rey was in the wrong for robbing Punk of his MITB slot for Wrestlemania XXVI, but Punk did himself no favors by harassing Rey's kids. And the head-shaving wager was his idea, not Rey's. I've grown to like faces more over the years, sue me.
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Nov 29, 2010 11:56:32 GMT -5
- Vickie is a gold digging, loudmouthed shrew who only cares about herself. Edge and Ziggler are/were her meal tickets rather than true lovers. Actually, I think it's the other way around. Vickie the character already has power. She truly believes that Edge/Ziggles actually love her, when they're just using her for chances at titles. Kind of a pitiable character that way.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Nov 29, 2010 12:03:25 GMT -5
Punk and Jericho were hardly sympathetic, and its that which made them good heels. Right as they were, theyw ere total pricks about it.
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Marvelously Mediocre
Fry's dog Seymour
Beggin' for a little SWAGGAH!
Haha. What a story Mark.
Posts: 21,224
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Post by Marvelously Mediocre on Nov 29, 2010 12:36:49 GMT -5
Kane killed his own brother a month ago. Anything Edge or anyone else does to him or his dad is justifiable.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 29, 2010 12:40:08 GMT -5
Kane killed his own brother a month ago. Anything Edge or anyone else does to him or his dad is justifiable. Kane kills his brother, so his dad should be kidnapped and tortured by a man that had nothing to do with the feud? Interesting logic you got there.
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Marvelously Mediocre
Fry's dog Seymour
Beggin' for a little SWAGGAH!
Haha. What a story Mark.
Posts: 21,224
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Post by Marvelously Mediocre on Nov 29, 2010 13:00:32 GMT -5
Kane killed his own brother a month ago. Anything Edge or anyone else does to him or his dad is justifiable. Kane kills his brother, so his dad should be kidnapped and tortured by a man that had nothing to do with the feud? Interesting logic you got there. His dad helped and encouraged him. Edge is just taking the law into his own hands because the police won't get involved.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Nov 29, 2010 13:09:50 GMT -5
Kane killed his own brother a month ago. Anything Edge or anyone else does to him or his dad is justifiable. Kane kills his brother, so his dad should be kidnapped and tortured by a man that had nothing to do with the feud? Interesting logic you got there. Said dad had also backstabbed the Undertaker so many times he should seriously start considering switching out his trademark urn for switchblade. While Edge is certainly an over-the-top asshole neither Bearer or Kane are sympathetic characters in the slightest.
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Post by Sharpy Snow on Nov 29, 2010 13:18:42 GMT -5
Considering Edges past with Taker, it's hardly him having revenge. Edge is clearly just snapping under his own greed to get the title back to him.
He's like Orton really. The fans cheer him but at the end of the day, he's still the same old psychopath that he has been for a while. (I mean, how many people would just go and have an outburst on a laptop of all things like that? Edge has problems.)
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Nov 29, 2010 13:29:07 GMT -5
Pretty much anything Jericho's done in the last 2 years.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 29, 2010 13:30:04 GMT -5
Considering Edges past with Taker, it's hardly him having revenge. Edge is clearly just snapping under his own greed to get the title back to him. He's like Orton really. The fans cheer him but at the end of the day, he's still the same old psychopath that he has been for a while. (I mean, how many people would just go and have an outburst on a laptop of all things like that? Edge has problems.) This. I could understand if it was Taker who kidnapped Bearer, but it's Edge. And the reason for Edge messing with Kane and Bearer has nothing to do with what they did with The Undertaker, it's for the title. And given all the crazy shit Edge has done in his career, he's hardly the guy that should be giving out any sort of justice.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 29, 2010 13:32:15 GMT -5
Pretty much anything Jericho's done in the last 2 years. Even his feud with Shawn Micheals? I thought it was great, but Jericho was the clear heel during that storyline.
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Beartato
Hank Scorpio
Conspiracy Victim
Posts: 5,913
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Post by Beartato on Nov 29, 2010 13:51:18 GMT -5
Mike Knox vs anyone over Kelly Kelly. His girlfriend likes to strip for everyone. He dislikes that, and *he* is the bad guy? THIS. I never got how he was in the wrong. "Hey, he's not letting us see his girlfriend naked, that jerk" And Edge really has no reason to be a jerk to Kane besides the fact that he wants a title shot. And even after Kane gave him the title shot, he STILL kept Bearer. Edge is obviously a psychopath that shouldn't be cheered for at all. At least Kane had reasons for hating the Undertaker. (right? I think they keep changing the story lol. but even so, they have been enemies for years) Since Edge has his title shot, he is officially just torturing a man who's done nothing to him for funsies. A heel's job is to make me want to see him get his ass kicked isn't it? I want Kane to completely destroy Edge, while I'll be upset if Edge beats him. What kind of example would that be anyway? Kids, if you want something, torture the person who has it and kidnap/take things they love until they give it to you. And even after they give it to you, continue torturing them until you have even more. Also, while I do think Jericho is in the right pretty much all the time, he isn't always sympathetic because of the way he acts upon these things. Same with Punk, but at the time he was still a face and Hardy and the fans were being crybabies about the mitb thing (which makes them complete hypocrites)
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Post by chunkylover53 on Nov 29, 2010 13:53:34 GMT -5
They didn't really feud much afterwards but I HATED Kurt Angle being heel again after saving the WWF and Stone Cold being cheered for...um, trying to destroy the WWF. I still don't get it at all. I became a lifetime fan of Angle after that because nobody showed him any appreciation. Agreed wholeheartedly except for the fact that the fans were CHEERING him the next day and even BROUGHT SIGNS to thank him for it. And then the WWF guys are bitching at him for bashing in the heads with chairs weeks prior? And JR is siding with Stone Cold(especially months after he beat him to a bloody pulp) stating that Angle screwed him. If Angle didn't screw Austin, you wouldn't have a job! Another one would be "Outlaw" Ron Bass carving up Brutus Beefcake's face after Beefcake destroyed his whip. Hell, another Beefcake provoked example would be on the Brother Love show making fun of Sensational Sherri and then Savage and Sherri go and attack him and cut his hair(which he always had coming), with Vince McMahon playing it up as a travesty, yet it was fun and games when Beefcake did it to other people. Why in the hell was Beefcake a face is beyond me.
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Post by Branimal on Nov 29, 2010 14:01:47 GMT -5
Pretty much anything Jericho's done in the last 2 years. Even his feud with Shawn Micheals? I thought it was great, but Jericho was the clear heel during that storyline. Aside from Jericho punching Rebecca in the face and refusing to apologize, I felt Jericho was in the right for the majority of the feud.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,023
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 29, 2010 14:03:15 GMT -5
Considering Edges past with Taker, it's hardly him having revenge. Edge is clearly just snapping under his own greed to get the title back to him. He's like Orton really. The fans cheer him but at the end of the day, he's still the same old psychopath that he has been for a while. (I mean, how many people would just go and have an outburst on a laptop of all things like that? Edge has problems.) Oh I can believe he'd want to destroy a laptop giving him unfair orders, many an office workere dreams of such a moment.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Nov 29, 2010 14:05:40 GMT -5
Another one I just thought of:
Ted Dibiase / Goldust. Goldust comes and randomly beats up Ted and then steals the million dollar title that his dad gave him and Goldust is suppose to be the face? What was the point of Goldust "borrowing" the title anyway?
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