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Post by 'Smart' Mark Poindexter on Dec 2, 2010 11:48:26 GMT -5
Right, because Hogan never cheated as a babyface. Nope never...any cheating you remember was edited by Randy Savage.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 3:53:01 GMT -5
Right, because Hogan never cheated as a babyface. Nope never...any cheating you remember was edited by Randy Savage. In actuality all Hogan did was shake Sid's hand. It was Kerry Von Erich who pulled him out. True story. |
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 5, 2010 4:17:40 GMT -5
You sympathise with the guy who locked the Undertaker in a casket and set it alight? Who repeatedly tried to kill the Undertaker (I'm not exaggerating, "kill" was the term he used)? Really? Yes I did. I know it's scripted and I just cannot take "kill" seriously in wrestling. Furthermore, The Undertaker is undead in kayfabe. Orton was fighting a supernatural entity. Beside that I just felt that if anyone Orton was the guy who should end the streak which would have catapulted to the very highest level of WWE, above Cena, above Triple H. In hindsight Orton did not need a victory to become one of the permanent main eventers of WWE, but back then it felt right. So you're saying the Undertaker was the heel for not rolling over and letting Randy Orton pin him? |
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Post by "The Natural" Jeremy Grave on Dec 5, 2010 13:09:51 GMT -5
Yes I did. I know it's scripted and I just cannot take "kill" seriously in wrestling. Furthermore, The Undertaker is undead in kayfabe. Orton was fighting a supernatural entity. Beside that I just felt that if anyone Orton was the guy who should end the streak which would have catapulted to the very highest level of WWE, above Cena, above Triple H. In hindsight Orton did not need a victory to become one of the permanent main eventers of WWE, but back then it felt right. I read that the plan was to have Orton end the streak at Wrestlemania 21, with Taker himself being fine with the idea. It was Randy that nixed it. This could easily be a rumor, though. Not only that, the whole match (and planned job) was Taker's idea. The original match would have been BOD vs Heidenreich + Snitsky, but Taker thougt that it would be better to pass the torch to Orton. |
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Post by flatsdomino on Dec 5, 2010 13:20:27 GMT -5
I read that the plan was to have Orton end the streak at Wrestlemania 21, with Taker himself being fine with the idea. It was Randy that nixed it. This could easily be a rumor, though. Not only that, the whole match (and planned job) was Taker's idea. The original match would have been BOD vs Heidenreich + Snitsky Thank god for the Undertaker. |
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Dec 5, 2010 13:46:35 GMT -5
Any time Foley turned heel in the Attitude era, because he had the best justifications for turning heel ever.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,027
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Post by dav on Dec 5, 2010 14:23:55 GMT -5
Exactly. As one person said it is likely just "anti-Hogan" stuff, but really, there was nothing babyface about Savage in that feud. He played the jealous/abusive/paranoid boyfriend. Nothing shown on TV portrayed Hogan "lusting after" Elizabeth. Savage distorted images to portray that as fact, showing that he was delusional and blinded by jealousy (i.e. the whole point of the freakin' storyline). Even after the Savage/Liz on-screen split in 1989, Hogan simply had her as a manager until the feud with Savage wore out, and then it was back to Hogan by himself and Liz in limbo for two years until she and Savage reunited at WM 7. Sympathizing with the abusive/jealous boyfriend is a bit of a stretch. Why does it have to be "anti-Hogan" and can't just be "pro-Macho Man?" Maybe another problem I had is that Savage was the WWF Champion at the time- the headliner, the top-dog- but when they teamed they always wore yellow and red, they always came out to Hogan's music ... Hogan was clearly pushed as the top-guy over the World's Champion at the time. So- along with seeing Savage as "in-the-right" involving Elizabeth- some of us also see him as being "in-the-right" when he claimed he was tired of being Number 3 in the Mega-Powers, and that Hogan clearly always wanted his belt back (and the power that came with it.) When did Hogan ever want his belt back? He always see,ed fine with Macho being champ and if Macho wanted different outfits, he should have said. Red and yellow's more practical than neon cowboy anyway. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 14:46:15 GMT -5
Hell, Michaels didn't just not defend himself, he outright admitted that he did cheat. The twists and turns early in that story were so great. Michaels starts out as a face and Batista as a heel, while Jericho is putting his nose in where it doesn't belong. Batista provokes Michaels until he decides to live down to those expectations and does cheat, turning Michaels into the heel and Batista into sort of a face, whereas Jericho, whose nose is STILL where it doesn't belong, takes it on as a personal crusade to expose the trickery... so he's "right", but he's still being a busybody, and he was also exacerbating this situation from the get-go. Heel!Michaels plays the put-upon martyr so well that Jericho finally believes him and goes full-on babyface with his apology, only to get kicked in the face for his troubles, pushing him into a weird territory where he's being a total jerk, but kind of understandably, but only if you ignore that he shouldn't have stuck his beak in in the first place. And Michaels sort of goes back to being a face, but only in the sense that the audience understands he doesn't mind cheating against massively larger jerkish opponents and lying about it to busybodies, and likes him anyway. It was all very deliciously grey. Much more so than any other storyline in recent memory, in my opinion. I would be hard-pressed to say who was really the face and the heel by the time Batista dropped out of the picture and it was just Jericho-Michaels... it's kind of a Javert vs Valjean thing, you know? Jericho was technically right, but he was insane. Michaels was technically wrong, but he was much more live and let live... moreover, he'd already paid for what he did to Batista via the stretcher match. So it was like, dude, Jericho, what's your problem? And it started looking a lot more like ego than like righteous anger. This is an awesome assessment of the HBK/Jericho feud. |
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Beartato
Hank Scorpio
Conspiracy Victim
Posts: 5,913
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Post by Beartato on Dec 5, 2010 14:52:25 GMT -5
God I will never get over how awesome that feud and whole story arch was.
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Post by MGH on Dec 5, 2010 14:54:10 GMT -5
OK, after watching SD I'm more than 100% on Kane's side in this feud.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,027
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Post by dav on Dec 5, 2010 14:55:33 GMT -5
Bulldog and Michaels. Michaels tries to cheat with Bulldog's wife who turns him down and remains faithful to her hudband. Bulldog defends his wife's honour and for some reason, he's the bad guy?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 14:56:27 GMT -5
God I will ever get over how awesome that feud and whole story arch was. I really wish they'd chronicle the whole thing on DVD. |
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babyfootball
Don Corleone
At least as good as Ron Garvin!
Posts: 1,320
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Post by babyfootball on Dec 5, 2010 16:23:41 GMT -5
Hollywood Hogan's heel turn when he first joined the NWO...I mentione dit in another thread let me find it... That the Hulkster to Hollywood Hogan change was not only justified but should kept him a face...think about it like this. Hogan comes in as the paragon of all thats good and right and the fans instead chose to cheer Ric Flair,a man who cheats,womanizes, and disrespects everyone....so really the Hollywood change was the Hulkster's attempt to give the fan what they wanted. He tried to be the man by beating the man at his own game. Always makes me think of the PWI cover story from my childhood: "The truth hurts! Hulk Hogan is RIGHT!" It was a bit of a stretch, but it made some good points! |
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jkfcsf
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by jkfcsf on Dec 7, 2010 2:21:40 GMT -5
OK, after watching SD I'm more than 100% on Kane's side in this feud. Yes, me too. I actually felt bad for Kane when he found out that Edge gave him a person that wasn't Paul Bearer, since he looked so happy to finally get his father back before that. Also, I think Morrison and Sheamus from this week's Raw deserves a mention. Morrison lost cleanly to Sheamus last week, and Morrison comes out to interrupt Sheamus' promo, then he beats him up at the end. Morrison just came off as a sore loser to me here. |
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Dec 7, 2010 2:42:04 GMT -5
Cena vs Barrett. Cena was fired. He has no business being in the ring. He shouldnt be in his ring gear every week. He shouldnt have music. I feel this isnt Barrett vs Cena. Its Barrett vs plot holes.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Dec 7, 2010 6:15:04 GMT -5
Any time Foley turned heel in the Attitude era, because he had the best justifications for turning heel ever. When was Foley a heel in the Attitude Era besides Corporate Dude Love and later turning back to Mankind pre-socko? He was a face since then and was later Commissioner until December 2000. |
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 7, 2010 9:30:12 GMT -5
Cena vs Barrett. Cena was fired. He has no business being in the ring. He shouldnt be in his ring gear every week. He shouldnt have music. I feel this isnt Barrett vs Cena. Its Barrett vs plot holes. That works, if you only started watching at Survivor Series or if you fell asleep and missed the entire five months of build to this storyline. Otherwise, it's attempted murderers getting what they deserve. |
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Post by Citizen Zero on Dec 7, 2010 9:35:58 GMT -5
Any time Foley turned heel in the Attitude era, because he had the best justifications for turning heel ever. And in ECW, for that matter. |
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Shaq-Fu
Trap-Jaw
fun fun fun
Posts: 499
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Post by Shaq-Fu on Dec 7, 2010 9:37:19 GMT -5
Cena vs Barrett. Cena was fired. He has no business being in the ring. He shouldnt be in his ring gear every week. He shouldnt have music. I feel this isnt Barrett vs Cena. Its Barrett vs plot holes. That works, if you only started watching at Survivor Series or if you fell asleep and missed the entire five months of build to this storyline. Otherwise, it's attempted murderers getting what they deserve. Yeah, it's standard wresling logic. It's okay to be a dick, as long as you're doing it to other dicks. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 16:55:44 GMT -5
Cena vs Barrett. Cena was fired. He has no business being in the ring. He shouldnt be in his ring gear every week. He shouldnt have music. I feel this isnt Barrett vs Cena. Its Barrett vs plot holes. That works, if you only started watching at Survivor Series or if you fell asleep and missed the entire five months of build to this storyline. Otherwise, it's attempted murderers getting what they deserve. Still, Cena's being a sore loser. He agreed to the stipulation at Hell in a Cell, then lost, and after that he tried every workaround in the book to keep from following the rules of that match. Then once he finally gave up on working around it and accepted the terms of not obeying Nexus, he just started beating the hell out of them every week. |
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