Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 17:24:00 GMT -5
I do not agree. The Nazis where working on a bomber that could drop an A bomb on New York and V3 rockets with warheads that could hit New York as well.
Japan was about 2 weeks away from dropping there own A bomb.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Feb 3, 2011 17:31:19 GMT -5
The Germans could not have won for a number of reasons:
1) Conquering the Soviets was just not possible. Yes, the Germans truly much better at war than the USSR, but they simply could not handle all the waves of bodies that Stalin sent out there to be slaughtered.
2) They were not smart enough to sit still in the Soviet winter. If they had sit on the conquered Soviet cities and forced the Soviets to either do nothing or try to be the ones on the offensive in the winter they might have had the capacity to break the will of the Soviets and gotten Stalin to conditionally surrender and allow them to keep the conquered land and not fight a two front war. I doubt Stalin would have quit, though.
3) The Japanese did not have adequate oil reserves of their own. If they had, they could have helped the Germans by forcing the Soviets to fight a two front war. Instead, they needed to invade Indonesia to get to those oil reserves, but that would not be possible until they dealt with the US. The US had made it clear to the Japanese that any further aggression in the Pacific would force them to actively join the war, which the Japanese knew that they did not have enough resources to deal with. It is the reason that they ambushed Pearl Harbor. Had that raid been more successful, it might have allowed them to be on more even terms and allow them to invade Indonesia for the oil. Obviously, that did not happen.
4) The standards of behavior by the Germans in their invaded territories fostered rebellion everywhere. They likened themselves to the Roman Empire, but they did not learn some of the lessons that the Romans used in their expansion. Treat your newly conquered as citizens. They did not, and it meant that they were spending way too much time policing their territories.
5) They spent way too many resources on the Holocaust. This also foster rebellion in some conquered lands (though some lands encouraged it). Hell, the replacement government that the Germans put in place in Finland openly refused to cooperate in the collection of Jews, which had to damage their image and morale.
6) Their rejection of the Jews meant that the Germans rejected many of their most educated citizens, which in turn meant that they could not master atomic bombs before they collapsed under the weight of invasion.
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Post by ani on Feb 3, 2011 17:36:03 GMT -5
You NEVER go against Russia. Just ask N. Bonaparte.
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Post by Sharpy Snow on Feb 3, 2011 17:36:37 GMT -5
The reason he didn't invade the UK was that he couldn't, not because he invaded Russia. Had Britain not been an island it would be a different story of course. The Royal Navy was by far the largest in the world and since the RAF had won the Battle of Britain, any threat of invasion had all but been eliminated. Hitler's army was superior to Britain's, and by a long way, but he would have had to get there first. I want to say this would be a big factor. They couldn't compete with England at sea and we held them off in the skies too. If we weren't an island, it would have been a different story. But being an island was the best defense to a blitzkrieg. And it was near impossible to invade Russia due to the size and climate. Should you survive the journey, only then would you have to take on the Russian army. While the Nazis were better trained at the time, Russias numbers would destroy the weakneded Germans in the end. Napoleon learnt this one the hard way. I think even if Japan tried to take the other side of Russia, Stalin would have been able to throw them both off. History was my worst subject by the way, so I can't say much on the subject... |
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dav
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Post by dav on Feb 3, 2011 17:42:40 GMT -5
I do not agree. The Nazis where working on a bomber that could drop an A bomb on New York and V3 rockets with warheads that could hit New York as well. Japan was about 2 weeks away from dropping there own A bomb. No. No it wasn't. And even if Alien Space Bats had comes down from the Heavens to give Japan the knowledge for an A-Bomb, they lacked the scientists, the resources and even the means to drop the bomb beyond a very small radius that would have made any impact in actually winning the War. The V3 rockets were planned for conventional bombs as was their own bombers which were in fact pipe dreams due to the sheer disadvantage Nazi Germany held in the War. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 3, 2011 18:09:54 GMT -5
If he didn't try and attack Russia, he would have crushed the UK and the rest would have followed This. The Jewish question is irrelevant really. Russia didn't screw Hitler, Hitler screwed Hitler. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 18:17:07 GMT -5
I do not agree. The Nazis where working on a bomber that could drop an A bomb on New York and V3 rockets with warheads that could hit New York as well. Japan was about 2 weeks away from dropping there own A bomb. No. No it wasn't. And even if Alien Space Bats had comes down from the Heavens to give Japan the knowledge for an A-Bomb, they lacked the scientists, the resources and even the means to drop the bomb beyond a very small radius that would have made any impact in actually winning the War. The V3 rockets were planned for conventional bombs as was their own bombers which were in fact pipe dreams due to the sheer disadvantage Nazi Germany held in the War. I guess we will agree to disagree. |
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Post by BRAINFADE on Feb 3, 2011 18:20:32 GMT -5
Being British, this here never fails to give me goosebumps. We would NEVER have surrendered- we would have fought to the last f***ing man if need be. |
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Post by Predator McBroski on Feb 3, 2011 18:22:19 GMT -5
He could've taken oil from the Ottoman Empire Area, which would have kept the Afrika Korps going, which may have moved through Africa to Italy, than into the UK.
Also the oil could have kept the Luftwaffe going, and continuing the bombing of England.
So yes, he could've easily won the war, had he taken oil and ignored Russia.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 18:47:33 GMT -5
Being British, this here never fails to give me goosebumps. We would NEVER have surrendered- we would have fought to the last f***ing man if need be. No doubt. I have a dvd docu about these groups of men Churchhill had trained in guerrilla warfare across England should they be invaded. The Germans would have been in trouble. |
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dav
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Post by dav on Feb 3, 2011 18:54:45 GMT -5
He could've taken oil from the Ottoman Empire Area, which would have kept the Afrika Korps going, which may have moved through Africa to Italy, than into the UK. Also the oil could have kept the Luftwaffe going, and continuing the bombing of England. So yes, he could've easily won the war, had he taken oil and ignored Russia. The Afrika Corps lacked the resources and logistical capability to accomplish this in all honesty. The areas were under British/French control at the time and if the Axis forces had reached that far, they would have been greeted by the sight of burning oil wells. Also, Stalin would not have sat on his hands if Hitler had turned his attention solely on Africa, something Hitler was somewhat aware of as the complete destruction of the USSR was his ultimate goal. Oil supplies weren't the worst problem of the Axis problems, they had a lot more to worry about. |
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Feb 4, 2011 14:11:18 GMT -5
Hitler could have easily won the war or even prolonged it for much longer if it were not for these foul-ups:
1. Instead of smashing the retreating British forces (The Battle Of Dunkirk), they were allowed to escape. This was very early in the War. Had the British been destroyed there, the Germans would have been set up quite nicely.
2. He could have had Russia but he screwed up royally by making the army change direction while there. (Can't remember the location at the time - I believe they were supposed to go to Moscow but he ordered them to go to Stalingrad...not 100% on the locations, but had he stuck to his original plan he would have defeated the Russians. At least at the beginning.).
3. He declared the Japanese to be his allies (since they were supposedly of the "Aryan Race" as well...huh?) and when they attacked the US, he was then royally screwed. He WAS planning on attacking the US eventually, but not for another 20 years or so.
4. The Germans almost won Battle of the Bulge. If they had, the US would have had a hard time getting a foothold back into Europe (since they were also committed to the Japanese side of the War).
5. There are a ton of other mistakes as well that cost the Germans dearly. Stalingrad - leaving a huge chunk of the German army there to die (not entirely his fault, but still). He had a "do not disturb" policy so during D-Day while the Allies attacked, he slept. The Germans had a massive tank battalion nearby that would have helped them.
I highly recommend the book "The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich" by William Shirer. A very scary history of the Nazis.
The Germans were no way near building an atomic bomb. They wanted to, but didn't have the means to do so.
Another problem is the Germans expanded so fast that they left themselves with lots of problems: one of them being lack of fuel for their army.
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Post by Irish Nightmare on Feb 4, 2011 18:17:23 GMT -5
My college history professor said, that a lot of people think that if Hitler wouldn't have tried to invade Poland he would've basically been considered one of the greatest leaders today (minus the whole genocide thing). At that time, his diplomacy with other countries was decent, no one was really complaining about what he was doing. But, when he invaded Poland he did so after basically being warned numerous times not do so...
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Post by monsterpiece on Feb 4, 2011 19:28:41 GMT -5
If he didn't try and attack Russia, he would have crushed the UK and the rest would have followed This this this. If he had just waited till he'd finished with the rest of the world he could have overtaken russia as well, Russia ruined his entire plan. |
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Post by Mattification on Feb 4, 2011 23:26:50 GMT -5
Not quite. They would never have managed to invade the USA, for the same reason they didn't make it to Britain, but on a far larger scale.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Feb 6, 2011 1:38:55 GMT -5
If he didn't try and attack Russia, he would have crushed the UK and the rest would have followed This this this. If he had just waited till he'd finished with the rest of the world he could have overtaken russia as well, Russia ruined his entire plan. A scary thing is that Russia and Germany were allies at the beginning of the War. If they had stayed united, we'd all be living in a much different world today. I think they would have crushed North America eventually. We need to be "thankful" that Hitler was such a power-hungry little psychopath. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 6, 2011 3:03:31 GMT -5
This this this. If he had just waited till he'd finished with the rest of the world he could have overtaken russia as well, Russia ruined his entire plan. A scary thing is that Russia and Germany were allies at the beginning of the War. If they had stayed united, we'd all be living in a much different world today. I think they would have crushed North America eventually. We need to be "thankful" that Hitler was such a power-hungry little psychopath. Allies is a strong word. They had a non-agression pact. Basically they wouldn't attack each other, they wouldn't fight together, and in fact the second the deal was signed they started planning to break the thing. |
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 6, 2011 3:05:44 GMT -5
Of course. He was in it, so he *could* have won it. Just laws of probability there.
Despite all those blunders and whatever, the A-bomb was basically game f***in' over for anyone. Still is.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 6, 2011 8:07:04 GMT -5
Nobody has mentioned chemical or biological weapons, if Hitler wasn't against using them could he have won?
(I honestly don't know, there may be a good reason nobody has mentioned them)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 8:18:52 GMT -5
Nobody has mentioned chemical or biological weapons, if Hitler wasn't against using them could he have won? (I honestly don't know, there may be a good reason nobody has mentioned them) Memories of mustard gas from the First World War made people not want to use them |
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