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Post by Rorschach on Apr 20, 2011 20:48:43 GMT -5
I actually wanted to see Beth Phoenix win the Royal Rumble just to see what would happen. Most likely? They give her a DIVAS title match. Long shot? She gets her "title match" but the champ takes the countout loss, justifiable by the "I don't hit girls" line of thought. I would think the same would apply to an all female "Money in the Bank" match. The unsaid rule would be that the briefcase cannot be cashed in on any male title holder. So basically the DIVAS title only. Problem with that idea is that most of their girls now are models, who cannot even take the BAREST bump from the top turnbuckle, let alone from a goddamned LADDER without shattering into a thousand little skinny pieces.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 20:48:43 GMT -5
Who would you take in an MMA fight? a 272 pound women recognized as the best female MMA fighter in the world, or a 240 pound man recognized as the best male MMA fighter in the world? I'd take the dude in a first round KO every single time. This. And Kong isnt exactly 272 (I dont believe that number for a second, like those who claim Shawn Michaels is 220lbs) Brock Lesnar is around 280 on fight night. Now compare him to Kong. Actually, Lesnar can't be around 280 pounds on fight night unless he's cheating, as the Heavyweight division tops out at 265 pounds.
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Bedlam LadyD
Samurai Cop
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Post by Bedlam LadyD on Apr 20, 2011 23:00:03 GMT -5
I honestly think it could be credible. It all centers around how they build the storyline and what woman they use for it. If Rey Mysterio can be used as a credible Champion, so can a female. Beth, Natayla and Kong are all larger than him, both in height and weight. Chyna is a former world champion in a dimension where personal issues didn't happen and egos didn't get in the way.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 20, 2011 23:53:00 GMT -5
See I don't think Chyna would be that credible either; not because of her size/power; she had that, but she was terrible in ring beyond the barest of basics. I could see her pulling off the 'fluke' win, but not having any sorta run.
I will agree credibility-wise she's no less so than Rey.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Apr 20, 2011 23:56:32 GMT -5
I could see it happening. It would have to be someone of tremendous size and skill. Kong is the only one that comes to mind... As mentioned earlier, Kong isn't tremendous in size. She fought Eric Young in TNA, who's not very big, and he made her look a lot smaller.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 21, 2011 0:00:17 GMT -5
Kong also lacks the muscle of Chyna or Beth. I could see Beth being built up moreso than Kong.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Apr 21, 2011 0:03:00 GMT -5
Kong also lacks the muscle of Chyna or Beth. I could see Beth being built up moreso than Kong. Kong's not as defined, but she has a hell of a lot more muscle than Beth does.
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Thaal Sinestro
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Post by Thaal Sinestro on Apr 21, 2011 0:11:03 GMT -5
Lulz, this thread
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Post by RatedRKoffee on Apr 21, 2011 2:45:08 GMT -5
This wouldn't be could for anybody. Remember when Bam Bam became a complete joke because he lost a match to a football player? So if they did it in the most screwjob manner they could it would have to be a heel right. So you think they can get a face over by having them beat a woman? I just don't see how this could help anyone or draw money.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 21, 2011 3:35:44 GMT -5
And younger men are physically superior to older ones. Yet no one seems to have a problem with Flair winning titles after he hit 40. Big men are physically superior to small men, but its ok for Eddie, Rey and Malenko to beat guys twice their size. Athletes are physically superior to non-althetes yet we have Vince McMahon, Arquette and Russo winning world titles. Randy Couture at the age of 44 beat a guy 13 years younger and 30 lbs heavier in his comeback fight to win the UFC HW title. Younger men arent necessarily physically superior. No female fighter has beaten a male one yet. I dont get why people are so eager to see a woman win a world title. Vince Russo, David Arquette and Vince McMahon are often remembered as scars on the legacy of the titles that they won. People by the majority would hate it. And while big men are physically superior, smaller men can have a technical advantage. Eddie Guerrero didnt win the belt by using power moves on Lesnar. I wonder if we have this in tennis forums. I don't get why so you're adamant that a woman can never beat a man under any circumstances whatsoever in a scripted sport. That's what the topic was asking.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 21, 2011 4:46:31 GMT -5
This. And Kong isnt exactly 272 (I dont believe that number for a second, like those who claim Shawn Michaels is 220lbs) Brock Lesnar is around 280 on fight night. Now compare him to Kong. Actually, Lesnar can't be around 280 pounds on fight night unless he's cheating, as the Heavyweight division tops out at 265 pounds. Go learn about cutting weight. Its the amateur wrestling practise of dehydrating your body to weigh in on the scales, and then putting all the water weight back on in the hours between the weigh in and the fight the next day, so that you have a big size advantage. Outside of HW, every division has a lot of fighters doing it in MMA. Anthony Johnson, Anderson Silva, and Sean Sherk are big weight cutters.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 21, 2011 4:48:46 GMT -5
Randy Couture at the age of 44 beat a guy 13 years younger and 30 lbs heavier in his comeback fight to win the UFC HW title. Younger men arent necessarily physically superior. No female fighter has beaten a male one yet. I dont get why people are so eager to see a woman win a world title. Vince Russo, David Arquette and Vince McMahon are often remembered as scars on the legacy of the titles that they won. People by the majority would hate it. And while big men are physically superior, smaller men can have a technical advantage. Eddie Guerrero didnt win the belt by using power moves on Lesnar. I wonder if we have this in tennis forums. I don't get why so you're adamant that a woman can never beat a man under any circumstances whatsoever in a scripted sport. That's what the topic was asking. Because I dont see WHY it needs to happen, I dont think it will draw any money, and I dont see why we have to start having intergender matches all of a sudden. We have a mens division, and we have a womens division. the womens division needs to be better booked.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 21, 2011 5:00:43 GMT -5
I don't get why so you're adamant that a woman can never beat a man under any circumstances whatsoever in a scripted sport. That's what the topic was asking. Because I dont see WHY it needs to happen, I dont think it will draw any money, and I dont see why we have to start having intergender matches all of a sudden. We have a mens division, and we have a womens division. the womens division needs to be better booked. It doesn't need to happen. Don't see why it can't happen under any circumstances.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 21, 2011 5:10:52 GMT -5
I don't see why people are so adamant that it could happen. Divas get 5 minutes tops on non PPV shows.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Apr 21, 2011 5:43:14 GMT -5
I don't see why people are so adamant that it could happen. Divas get 5 minutes tops on non PPV shows. "Because anything can happen in the WWE!!!!" Seriously though, it's one of the last things that's NEVER been done in pro wrestling. That's the reason it could happen, because it hasn't happened yet. There'd be at least the blip of publicity that Miz got when he won the title. She'd go on The View, the other woman-centered talk shows, she'd be a hit. Plus, the whole "credibility of the title" died during the Monday Night Wars. Strange how people still seem to cling to that, like the spirit of Verne Gagne is flowing through their typing fingers.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 21, 2011 8:14:33 GMT -5
Because I dont see WHY it needs to happen, I dont think it will draw any money, and I dont see why we have to start having intergender matches all of a sudden. We have a mens division, and we have a womens division. the womens division needs to be better booked. It doesn't need to happen. Don't see why it can't happen under any circumstances. Of course it can happen...they unrealistically do things all the time. The question was if it should. My answer is no.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 21, 2011 8:21:30 GMT -5
Exactly.
A ladder has held a professional wrestling title before. Doesnt mean the WWE should give one to their ladders.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 9:00:08 GMT -5
It isn't the size and strength that's the problem. Beth Phoenix holding the title should strain credulity no less than when Rey Mysterio held it, if we're going by size and weight.
The issue is that you are severely handicapped by what you can do. Too many people hold too many double standards. Think of a typical Rey match as champ, where he ate ten minutes of offense. Do you really and honestly think that you could portray Beth in that role without their being an absolutely insane backlash?
That's the real issue, not some issue of realism. You could only show Beth crushing guys hand over fist in Whedon-esque fashion. It would cloy and in a big hurry too.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 21, 2011 14:20:41 GMT -5
It isn't the size and strength that's the problem. Beth Phoenix holding the title should strain credulity no less than when Rey Mysterio held it, if we're going by size and weight. The issue is that you are severely handicapped by what you can do. Too many people hold too many double standards. Think of a typical Rey match as champ, where he ate ten minutes of offense. Do you really and honestly think that you could portray Beth in that role without their being an absolutely insane backlash? That's the real issue, not some issue of realism. You could only show Beth crushing guys hand over fist in Whedon-esque fashion. It would cloy and in a big hurry too. To add to that, there is an independent wrestler by the name of LuFisto. LuFisto has held quite a few men's titles, both obscure and pretty well-known. A significant one that falls in the latter would be the CZW Ironman Championship. She's the only woman to hold it, but was also not the last to hold it; multiple other men followed her in holding the title, a title that was still treated with prestige. By the way, here's a picture of LuFisto: This isn't a woman who was, or could have been billed as being this fearsome character who couldn't be categorized as a man or a woman as with Chyna. She is, for all intents and purposes, a girly-girl, and yet she's beaten men without killing their careers and held male titles without ruining the titles. The problem isn't a woman holding a men's title, it's rather a combination of factors, including but not limited to the fact that a woman holding a man's title more or less devalues it, if not strips it completely (similar thoughts of the board), as well as the fact that there aren't any women in the WWE billed the same way Chyna was or the way LuFisto is on the indy circuit. Hell, even if they did bill Phoenix like that, how many people would believe it, given how easily others in the divas division have beaten her? More importantly, as Slickback noted, there's no way a woman could believably hold any male title if she's allowed to coast through the match because her opponent can't or won't hit her, which would make her wining or losing the match a fluke or a result of zero-offence from her opponent. The way I see it, a woman believably holding a men's title without damaging the belt or the man she took it from would be pretty much impossible today in either of the three major companies, and remains that way for the foreseeable future.
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Celgress
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Post by Celgress on Apr 21, 2011 17:33:07 GMT -5
No, that is all.
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