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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jun 24, 2011 22:06:19 GMT -5
If anything, she was pushed too hard, going from doing nothing of note to owning the top heel multiple times and taking the Divas title in the span of 6 weeks.They tried to push Eve pretty damn hard as the face of the divison; for whatever reason most of the crowd just doesn't care one way or another for her.That's precisely the problem; does no one see how this kind of booking would leave someone in the cold? Imagine if they took Jack Swagger from catering and being on the losing end of squash matches and put him in the WWE Title picture- no transition, no build, no reason to care whatsoever. How many of you here would support him? How much of the audience would you expect to care one way or the other? Kelly gets more of a reaction because she's actually been allowed to connect with the audience. Eve hasn't just been yo-yo pushed- her push has been like the frickin' Demon Drop. She does nothing, nothing at all, they turn around and put her at the top of the card and they (and people here) wonder why she can't get any heat. There's no way for you to even hope to succeed when misManagement constantly does chub all with you, then throws you into a feud, then sends you back to catering when *gasp* you can't get over. Outside of commercials and meet and greets, I can only think of some three times I've heard her voice, and only two of those could be halfway considered promos: She cuts one on the Miz, which as bad as it was, wasn't the worst a Diva could have done, and when she got pissed after losing her title over the backbiting in the division, something that looked like it was leading to an actual storyline in the forgotten "point and smile" division, but, no surprise, it was dropped for no reason. The third, of course, was to introduce the dance number. Yippee. This is all of the mic time she's had as far as I can remember; a one-off promo, dialogue for an angle that didn't even get a week, and a dance number. This, during some three years of doing nothing, until they decide, for spits and giggles, to shoehorn her in the main event so they can laugh as she crashes and burns. Is there seriously any question as to why she can't get over? Seriously?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jun 24, 2011 22:45:05 GMT -5
Eve got the Diva's Title in 2010 for appearances. Hell, Miz only got the US Title back from Truth for the same reason. The ones who do the most appearances will get the titles. Eve did most of them back in the day. Now Kelly's got a lot more to do. Coincidence?
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
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Post by greeby on Jun 24, 2011 23:06:21 GMT -5
Lot of people getting bent out of shape over Kelly doing slaps and using the stinkface (which I don't particularly care for) in a handful of throwaway short matches against the Bellas and Rosa.
She's clearly been taught how to preserve her body and extend her career. By saving things like doing a crossbody from the top to the floor, or taking a big bump into the barricade (both of which she's done before), for the matches that matter. She knows the difference, hence why there was none of that in the title match on Monday.
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Post by dlg3000 on Jun 24, 2011 23:07:34 GMT -5
Because Kelly Kelly is actually more competent than the Kat and Debra in terms of in-ring skill when they won those titles. So somebody at some point was worse than her. I still fail to see what that has to do with Kelly Kelly winning the Divas title 2011. I have the feeling that people wouldn't complain as much if KK was winning during the Attitude Era, which was a totally different era. I guess that I don't see KK winning the belt as much as other fans and she isn't that good, but I guess I am still holding out hope that she runs with it and improves on her ability. There is nothing worse than a champion being carried by her opponents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 23:08:35 GMT -5
If anything, she was pushed too hard, going from doing nothing of note to owning the top heel multiple times and taking the Divas title in the span of 6 weeks.They tried to push Eve pretty damn hard as the face of the divison; for whatever reason most of the crowd just doesn't care one way or another for her.That's precisely the problem; does no one see how this kind of booking would leave someone in the cold? Imagine if they took Jack Swagger from catering and being on the losing end of squash matches and put him in the WWE Title picture- no transition, no build, no reason to care whatsoever. How many of you here would support him? How much of the audience would you expect to care one way or the other? Kelly gets more of a reaction because she's actually been allowed to connect with the audience. Eve hasn't just been yo-yo pushed- her push has been like the frickin' Demon Drop. She does nothing, nothing at all, they turn around and put her at the top of the card and they (and people here) wonder why she can't get any heat. There's no way for you to even hope to succeed when misManagement constantly does chub all with you, then throws you into a feud, then sends you back to catering when *gasp* you can't get over. Outside of commercials and meet and greets, I can only think of some three times I've heard her voice, and only two of those could be halfway considered promos: She cuts one on the Miz, which as bad as it was, wasn't the worst a Diva could have done, and when she got pissed after losing her title over the backbiting in the division, something that looked like it was leading to an actual storyline in the forgotten "point and smile" division, but, no surprise, it was dropped for no reason. The third, of course, was to introduce the dance number. Yippee. This is all of the mic time she's had as far as I can remember; a one-off promo, dialogue for an angle that didn't even get a week, and a dance number. This, during some three years of doing nothing, until they decide, for spits and giggles, to shoehorn her in the main event so they can laugh as she crashes and burns. Is there seriously any question as to why she can't get over? Seriously? One problem: This can all be applied to Kelly, too. Kelly has no distinct character. She just smiles and is happy to be in WWE. She doesn't talk much, and when she does, it's nothing special. Yo-Yo push? In February, she main evented Smackdown, got "fired" by Vickie, and came back to huge fanfare at Elimination Chamber with more popualrity and momentum than ever. Then, WWE preceded to do nothing whatsoever to capitalize on it and left her off WrestleMania. She also had an angle this year with Drew McIntyre where they built it up for a couple weeks, then one week, they just stopped mentioning it.
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Post by Rorschach on Jun 24, 2011 23:48:08 GMT -5
So somebody at some point was worse than her. I still fail to see what that has to do with Kelly Kelly winning the Divas title 2011. I have the feeling that people wouldn't complain as much if KK was winning during the Attitude Era, which was a totally different era. I guess that I don't see KK winning the belt as much as other fans and she isn't that good, but I guess I am still holding out hope that she runs with it and improves on her ability. There is nothing worse than a champion being carried by her opponents. Speaking of which....who is there for Kelly to face now? The Bellas again....and....? Other than having Beth, pissed off at not being voted into the title match, snap and attack her, Kelly 2 has no ready made feud to step into. Maybe they could bring Nattie over and let her carry Kelly to a decent feud for the belt, but damn....there's just really no one who can step up and light that division on fire with Kelly as champ. Subtracting Kharma from the equation, it SHOULD have been Beth who came after the bullying Bellas, and fixed that little "twin magic" trick by Glam Slamming the HELL out of the sneaky twin, forcing the other, tired one to roll back in and take a Glam Slam of her own. From there, with Beth as champ, you could bring Nattie over for a "respect" series, or even a "best of seven" series for the Divas title. Let those two just go at it and build that belt's worth back up. Hell, even Eve could parlay her training and martial arts skills into a rivalry with Beth. Kelly? Not so much. Anyone like Beth or Nattie who loses to HER is completely discredited as a force to be reckoned with, and Eve, with all we know about her, SHOULD be able to make mincemeat out of Kelly. She's a weak champion, and it's hard to book her to hold on to the belt when her primary moves are the "Women's Special Slap" and the stinkface.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jun 24, 2011 23:56:43 GMT -5
Yo-Yo push? In February, she main evented Smackdown, got "fired" by Vickie, and came back to huge fanfare at Elimination Chamber with more popualrity and momentum than ever. Then, WWE preceded to do nothing whatsoever to capitalize on it and left her off WrestleMania. She also had an angle this year with Drew McIntyre where they built it up for a couple weeks, then one week, they just stopped mentioning it. In all fairness, that was more Snooki's fault than the booking team's. The McIntyre situation should have never happened since they took a storyline intended for McIntyre and Tiffany to be together on tv and just gave it to Kelly for no reason once Tiffany got the boot.
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Post by JACK on Jun 25, 2011 0:14:07 GMT -5
I remember Beth tweeting that Eve basically kicked her ass in a jiu jitsu training session once. That kinda tells me she is capable of doing hell of a lot more than what wwe allows her to do. Turn her heel and give her some kinda mma gimmick.
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Post by YeahYeahYeahYeahYeah on Jun 25, 2011 0:41:10 GMT -5
Lot of people getting bent out of shape over Kelly doing slaps and using the stinkface (which I don't particularly care for) in a handful of throwaway short matches against the Bellas and Rosa. She's clearly been taught how to preserve her body and extend her career. By saving things like doing a crossbody from the top to the floor, or taking a big bump into the barricade (both of which she's done before), for the matches that matter. She knows the difference, hence why there was none of that in the title match on Monday. So she non-wrestles 90% of the time and half-heartedly kinda does some wrestling moves the other 10% of the time. Cool. Sounds like an awesome champion to me. EDIT: And I know the Divas title is basically worthless, now, but I was under the impression that a title match tends to be a match that matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 1:25:33 GMT -5
Wait, wut? Surely you're not saying Layla and the Bellas are dragging Barbie down, because I'm sure her opponents aren't what's keeping her from putting on clinics. If you mean she needs opponents that she can lean on and can make her look good, I agree. But she isn't exactly a fountain of talent herself. . No I mean that just about anyone who wrestles the Bellas or Layla isn't going to look good since neither wrestle good matches on their own. In the last year and a half, Kelly's practically faced no one outside of McCool, Layla, and the Bellas. McCool she did alright with in my book, but the other 3 weren't that great. She's not the best wrestler, but to say she's the worst ever is just ignorance. Wait layla does not wrestle a good match on her own? i know this thread is about kelly and by proxy eve in a debate , but this caught my eye. Im assuming u missed layla for pretty much all of last year especially , vs nattie at bragging rights , vs kelly at MITB , vs michelle at xteme rules , please do not lump layla in with bad female talent the woman has worked her ass off. Sorry just wanted to get that one off my mind lol after i saw the comment.
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Post by wcw on Jun 25, 2011 1:33:58 GMT -5
Its a fake sport and the Divas title doesn't mean much. The girl works hard, is over, and has been with the company for 5 years. Give her a freaking break. Kelly Kelly isn't going to hold the title for long as she will likely hold it for 2-4 months and then drop it to some other model that "Doesn't deserve it".
ITS THE DIVAS TITLE its not even the woman's title.
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Post by JACK on Jun 25, 2011 1:36:27 GMT -5
Layla's match at MITB was pretty bad but I blame Kelly for that (cuz she f***ing sucks monkey balls) Layla has improved a lot.
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Post by woowoowoox on Jun 25, 2011 1:42:28 GMT -5
I said this before: I could care less. Barbie won the Barbie belt. It's fitting.
Still I miss the days where the actual women wrestlers wrestled on RAW for the Women's Championship and the "Divas" who never had to claim to be (good) wrestlers did their thing on Smackdown.
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Post by kidtamagotchi on Jun 25, 2011 2:48:16 GMT -5
I thought this thread was going to be about Kelly Kelly's idiotic screaming she does when she's on offense ("HURRRRRR!"). I HATE that. I was disappointed she won the belt, but what are you gonna do?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Jun 25, 2011 5:49:49 GMT -5
I have the feeling that people wouldn't complain as much if KK was winning during the Attitude Era, which was a totally different era. I guess that I don't see KK winning the belt as much as other fans and she isn't that good, but I guess I am still holding out hope that she runs with it and improves on her ability. There is nothing worse than a champion being carried by her opponents. Speaking of which....who is there for Kelly to face now? The Bellas again....and....? Other than having Beth, pissed off at not being voted into the title match, snap and attack her, Kelly 2 has no ready made feud to step into. Maybe they could bring Nattie over and let her carry Kelly to a decent feud for the belt, but damn....there's just really no one who can step up and light that division on fire with Kelly as champ. Subtracting Kharma from the equation, it SHOULD have been Beth who came after the bullying Bellas, and fixed that little "twin magic" trick by Glam Slamming the HELL out of the sneaky twin, forcing the other, tired one to roll back in and take a Glam Slam of her own. From there, with Beth as champ, you could bring Nattie over for a "respect" series, or even a "best of seven" series for the Divas title. Let those two just go at it and build that belt's worth back up. Hell, even Eve could parlay her training and martial arts skills into a rivalry with Beth. Kelly? Not so much. Anyone like Beth or Nattie who loses to HER is completely discredited as a force to be reckoned with, and Eve, with all we know about her, SHOULD be able to make mincemeat out of Kelly. She's a weak champion, and it's hard to book her to hold on to the belt when her primary moves are the "Women's Special Slap" and the stinkface. The Bellas, Maryse, Melina, and since the Divas title is crossbrand Alicia, Tamina and Rose. Also those aren't even close to Kelly's primary moves.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 25, 2011 7:05:39 GMT -5
Its a fake sport and the Divas title doesn't mean much. The girl works hard, is over, and has been with the company for 5 years. Give her a freaking break. Kelly Kelly isn't going to hold the title for long as she will likely hold it for 2-4 months and then drop it to some other model that "Doesn't deserve it". ITS THE DIVAS TITLE its not even the woman's title. I really do not understand this line of thinking. Because you don't care that means nobody else should?
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Jun 25, 2011 7:56:41 GMT -5
Its a fake sport and the Divas title doesn't mean much. The girl works hard, is over, and has been with the company for 5 years. Give her a freaking break. Kelly Kelly isn't going to hold the title for long as she will likely hold it for 2-4 months and then drop it to some other model that "Doesn't deserve it". ITS THE DIVAS TITLE its not even the woman's title. Its this kind of attitude that hurts the product. If you go into everything thinking "its a fake sport" then everything is worthless.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 25, 2011 8:06:56 GMT -5
Its a fake sport and the Divas title doesn't mean much. The girl works hard, is over, and has been with the company for 5 years. Give her a freaking break. Kelly Kelly isn't going to hold the title for long as she will likely hold it for 2-4 months and then drop it to some other model that "Doesn't deserve it". ITS THE DIVAS TITLE its not even the woman's title. Its this kind of attitude that hurts the product. If you go into everything thinking "its a fake sport" then everything is worthless. how about you go in thinking "it's just a TV show," then it just ranks with every other tv show
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jun 25, 2011 8:07:22 GMT -5
Once Kelly made the Maxim 100 list this year, you should had to known WWE was going to try and capitalize on that notoriety. She may get better. She may not. She may only hold the belt for a month before the next sure thing comes along. I remember when people dismissed Layla and Michelle McCool as wrestlers. I remember when fans were more excited about seeing Trish's boobs and ass rather than her ring skills.
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Post by forgottensinpwf on Jun 25, 2011 8:09:18 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how much she actually improves, or how much the WWE tries to force her on the fans, this will always be how she'll be remembered.
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