Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 17, 2011 0:48:58 GMT -5
Despite the popularity of black people with tweens and teenagers I cannot stop laughing at the absurdity of this statement.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 0:57:52 GMT -5
The two different posts saying black people don't draw and that rappers/producers "have no problem selling out" are some of the weirdest things I've read on this board in a while.
|
|
|
Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Aug 17, 2011 1:07:27 GMT -5
Clearly WCW should've put their World Title on Norman Smiley. I would've marked. I have nothing of value to add. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) I think Norman is still involved with FCW to some degree, WWE should bring him up to the main roster and give the guy the title. Make him the anonymous GM and have that somehow end in a Championship win. I'd prefer the hell out of that to another Miz reign.
|
|
|
Post by lewis1711 on Aug 17, 2011 1:22:19 GMT -5
I have to say I don't really care about race in pro-wrestling. It doesn't bother me at all if a black wrestler beats a white wrestler. Actually mark henry beating sheamus sort of bothered me...but that's because I'm a sheamus mark. Oh actually I probably just like him because he's white ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
|
Post by therealsks on Aug 17, 2011 1:23:53 GMT -5
Because not all wrestlers should be world champions. I don't think WWE are racist. It just so happens that the majority of the WWE is white, which will equal more white world champions. Booker T and The Rock made excellent champions. Can't say the same about Shelton, perhaps MVP and maybe R-Truth. Ezekiel Jackson sure as hell isn't world champion material. Kofi, eh, they need to put him in the main event first and then have him judged as championship material (his feud with Orton was cool, but then he just fell off the wagon). I'm sure if The Undertaker/John Cena/Randy Orton was black it wouldn't stop them from pushing him.
|
|
deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
|
Post by deancubed on Aug 17, 2011 1:53:25 GMT -5
Why arent there more Japanese WWE Champs? Why no Australians? Why no French (I mean REALLY French, not Paul Levesque)? Where are the Jewish wrestlers?
Pro Wrestling as it is today in North America is rooted in old white rednecks challenging circus freaks to fake fights. You can't compare it to, say, boxing, which has a huge long history of talented black champions that built it into a sport that black people actually watch and care about. Why are there so few black hockey players? Why so few black snowboarders?
Here's another reason:
Wrestling today is living off of the leftovers of Attitude Era success, which mainly appealed to white youth (the same people that made Limp Bizkit and Korn and Disturbed popular). These people were mostly obsessed with being 'badass', and growing goatees, and trying to look like bikers but usually not owning motorcycles themselves. None of these things were very appealing to the black community, which at the time was much more pop-culturally invested in following the late 90's rap feuds which culminated in Tupac and Biggie Smalls dying. THEN Eminem got white people to listen to rap in the tail end of the Attitude Era (early 2000s) because he was so over-the-top with violence and drug use in his lyrics that it fed the 'badass' image to the same folks that were making rap-metal popular.
But black people never really bought into the 'badass' thing. It just didn't connect, and that's why we also don't have that many black rock and metal musicians comparatively. And that's why, despite Eminem's success, most black hip-hop stars talk about getting money and selling drugs and growing up poor (Jay-Z, Lil Wayne, Kanye, Nas, the entire Atlanta rap scene), instead of raping and killing and depression and being 'badass' (Eminem, Insane Clown Posse, metal-rappers). Because over the top violence in pop culture isn't really all that appealing to black youth, and it never really has been. That was always a white trend.
And wrestling at its peak (ECW, Attitude Era) was selling itself as a huge source of that over the top violence and Insane Clown Posse and rap-metal and 'badass', and the Kid Rock style of 'hardcore country' (lol @ mickie james for a second). Hell, they changed one of the most iconic wrestling figures in history into EXACTLY this kind of guy to appeal to that crowd and people STILL kind of hope American Badass Undertaker might show up again someday.
So now, a decade later, the amount of white kids trying to get into the business they grew up loving is much higher than the amount of black kids who like pro wrestling enough to train for THAT instead of boxing or football or even UFC. Which makes the black talent pool that much smaller, which means of the 5 or so new main-eventers that get created each year (if that!), the odds of one of those main eventers being black AND being over enough to get a WWE Title are REALLY SMALL.
|
|
|
Post by "Dashing" Dr.VonPhoenix on Aug 17, 2011 2:08:33 GMT -5
I'm gonna put this as simply as I can... They don't draw. I'm sorry, but they don't. Despite the popularity of black people with tweens and teenagers, they just don't draw in wrestling. Just about the only argument to this is Booker T and he is arguably not even a first ballot hall of famer. Uhm... okay that simply isn't true. Having trouble drawing isn't the issue. Holding the WWE championship is. Will R-Truth hold the WWE championship? Probably not. Can he draw an audience? Yes, without question. I feel that yours was a poor response, sir. You missed the point of the original inquiry.
|
|
|
Post by lewis1711 on Aug 17, 2011 2:25:13 GMT -5
Wrestling today is living off of the leftovers of Attitude Era success, which mainly appealed to white youth (the same people that made Limp Bizkit and Korn and Disturbed popular). These people were mostly obsessed with being 'badass', and growing goatees, and trying to look like bikers but usually not owning motorcycles themselves. None of these things were very appealing to the black community, which at the time was much more pop-culturally invested in following the late 90's rap feuds which culminated in Tupac and Biggie Smalls dying. THEN Eminem got white people to listen to rap in the tail end of the Attitude Era (early 2000s) because he was so over-the-top with violence and drug use in his lyrics that it fed the 'badass' image to the same folks that were making rap-metal popular. But black people never really bought into the 'badass' thing. It just didn't connect, and that's why we also don't have that many black rock and metal musicians comparatively. And that's why, despite Eminem's success, most black hip-hop stars talk about getting money and selling drugs and growing up poor (Jay-Z, Lil Wayne, Kanye, Nas, the entire Atlanta rap scene), instead of raping and killing and depression and being 'badass' (Eminem, Insane Clown Posse, metal-rappers). Because over the top violence in pop culture isn't really all that appealing to black youth, and it never really has been. That was always a white trend. I would write something about the absurdity of this stereotype - but I have to go and trim my goatee (need it for that badass biker cred).
|
|
deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
|
Post by deancubed on Aug 17, 2011 2:36:13 GMT -5
I might have gone a bit overboard with describing the stereotype, but you can't deny that the audience that watched wrestling and the coincidental rise of the 'badass' mentality that happened to take place in the exact same years as the Attitude Era were feeding off each other to create a larger market for both. They used all those bands i mentioned in WWE(F) programming back then for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Truant on Aug 17, 2011 2:38:06 GMT -5
This thread is downright bizarre.
|
|
|
Post by lewis1711 on Aug 17, 2011 2:44:52 GMT -5
I might have gone a bit overboard with describing the stereotype, but you can't deny that the audience that watched wrestling and the coincidental rise of the 'badass' mentality that happened to take place in the exact same years as the Attitude Era were feeding off each other to create a larger market for both. They used all those bands i mentioned in WWE(F) programming back then for a reason. Yeah I get the stereotype... I guess I was just offended at being lumped in with it ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
|
Post by MichaelMartini on Aug 17, 2011 2:45:30 GMT -5
I think it's because as others have said, it's more of a ratio thing then a race thing. There's not that many black wrestlers, especially pre-2000.
Who were candidates in the 80s? Rocky Johnson, Tony Atlas, Junkyard Dog, Bad News Brown and Koko B. Ware. Only JYD was over enough to be champ but he died in car crash and let's face it, he wouldn't have been champ over Hogan, Warrior or Savage.
Ron Simmons won the big one in WCW in the early nineties but was too old by the time he came to WWF for a singles main event run. Ahmed was being groomed but was injury prone. Who else in the 90s? New Jack? Flash Funk? D-Lo? None were over enough. Rock is half black and he won a bunch of titles.
Booker won a big belt in the 2000s but his failure to capture the one at mania off HHH is the only incident that blatantly reeks of racism. Shelton was talented but couldn't talk. R-Truth and MVP have criminal records.
So why aren't there more black wrestlers? I think it's because any athletic black guy is going to get into the more lucrative real sports like Basketball, boxing, UFC and Football.
|
|
|
Post by lewis1711 on Aug 17, 2011 2:47:05 GMT -5
This thread is downright bizarre. I'm surprised it's stayed this civil (I did have to suppress the urge to troll quite a bit). But yeah like I said I honestly don't think of this stuff when watching pro-wrestling.
|
|
hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,822
|
Post by hassanchop on Aug 17, 2011 3:10:47 GMT -5
This thread is downright bizarre. ![](http://retro4.tripod.com/dog01.jpg)
|
|
|
Post by thesunbeast on Aug 17, 2011 3:19:38 GMT -5
I don't think WWE is racist, but there is a small problem in all of entertainment, that I think WWE unfortunately falls into aswell:
That is, they may unknowingly and unwittingly embrace old racist traditions, without actually being racist themselves.
The entertainment industry unfortunately acts as if "white" is "mainstream" and "black,spanish,asian" is "alternative". You hardly ever see a hollywood movie with an all black cast unless ist's a movie about being black, or the struggles of being black. You hardly ever have a mostly asian cast of a movie unless it's a movie about being asian. If it's a movie about love and romance, relationships, sports, business, friendship ect, it's all white, as if white is what should represent all the "normal" issues and that "other" races should only represent race-specific things. These are just traditions that were set up about 70 years ago during white supremacist times, that after the civil rights movement, unfortunately have stuck around. For example, people seem to identify "all American looking" as white and blonde. Why is that? Is it really that difficult to name one example of someone saying that someone is all American looking that isn't white and blonde? Yet, most people who identify a white and blonde person as "all American looking" aren't even racist at all, yet they just don't know any better that they're embracing an old racist idea simply because it's a tradition that has still, somehow, maintained itself as a part of current american culture.
So I do believe that there is a slight racist EFFECT in entertainment, and that includes WWE, unfortunately. You're going to have your 1 asian diva at most, your 2 black diva's at most, your 1 spanish diva, and your 10 white and blonde divas, give or take a couple, because it's that unthoughtful mentality that "white" is "mainstream" and anything other than "white" is "alternative"m and it's most likely a subconscious thing.
However, as far as being world champion is concerned, talent is a big factor, anly a handful of people on this planet have the opportunity to be able to be a WWE world champion, and so you can't just be "pretty good", you have to be excellent. Just remember, Mr. Perfect, Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Roddy Piper, Rick Rude, ect were never WWE world champion.
Aside from that, I believe that alot of the black athletes in WWE were lacking true personality either onscreen or offscreen. The guys that immediately come to mind that I think could have done it are Booker T, Ahmed Johnson, and JYD.
Booker T already did that.
JYD had everything it took, but he was just there at the same time as Hogan was, unfortunately for him.
Ahmed Johnson not only could have done it, but IMO, he could have been Goldberg before Goldberg, he had so much momentum. But, I've heard and read that he might not have been the best type of guy backstage.
All in all, there will be a black WWE champion some day, I just hope he's really good and that he's not a steriotype.
|
|
|
Post by Alex Shelley on Aug 17, 2011 3:43:41 GMT -5
I don't think WWE is racist, but there is a small problem in all of entertainment, that I think WWE unfortunately falls into aswell: That is, they may unknowingly and unwittingly embrace old racist traditions, without actually being racist themselves. The entertainment industry unfortunately acts as if "white" is "mainstream" and "black,spanish,asian" is "alternative". You hardly ever see a hollywood movie with an all black cast unless ist's a movie about being black, or the struggles of being black. You hardly ever have a mostly asian cast of a movie unless it's a movie about being asian. If it's a movie about love and romance, relationships, sports, business, friendship ect, it's all white, as if white is what should represent all the "normal" issues and that "other" races should only represent race-specific things. These are just traditions that were set up about 70 years ago during white supremacist times, that after the civil rights movement, unfortunately have stuck around. For example, people seem to identify "all American looking" as white and blonde. Why is that? Is it really that difficult to name one example of someone saying that someone is all American looking that isn't white and blonde? Yet, most people who identify a white and blonde person as "all American looking" aren't even racist at all, yet they just don't know any better that they're embracing an old racist idea simply because it's a tradition that has still, somehow, maintained itself as a part of current american culture. So I do believe that there is a slight racist EFFECT in entertainment, and that includes WWE, unfortunately. You're going to have your 1 asian diva at most, your 2 black diva's at most, your 1 spanish diva, and your 10 white and blonde divas, give or take a couple, because it's that unthoughtful mentality that "white" is "mainstream" and anything other than "white" is "alternative"m and it's most likely a subconscious thing. *applaud*
|
|
|
Post by Cam on Aug 17, 2011 3:44:19 GMT -5
This thread is ridiculous. So you'd rather WWE make a black man the champion just because he's black, so WWE can say they've had a fully black WWE Champion? That's bullshit.
As for "why haven't Shelton/MVP/Truth/Henry gotten world title runs?", WWE lets loads of people slip who could have had world title reigns but didn't. Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, everyone. Why didn't Mr. Perfect, Roddy Piper or Ted DiBiase Sr. ever get world title runs?
OMG VINCE MCMAHON IS RACIST AGAINST WHITES AS WELL!!!!1!!1
That's the same type of logic you are using.
|
|
|
Post by seaanyboy on Aug 17, 2011 6:25:15 GMT -5
It's because of Kerwin White, 'if it's not White, it's not right'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 6:34:32 GMT -5
WWE is racist against Asian people (they don't recognise Inoki's reign on their website) WWE is anti-British too and anti-Australian and anti-South American or something... Maybe they just give title reigns to people they think can handle a title run, regardless of their race? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 17, 2011 6:46:17 GMT -5
Contrary to how some may believe in this thread, pro wrestling is still popular among black people. As well as latinos, asians, etc. Pro wrestling is not a redneck sport. That's one of the popular misconceptions people over time believe as fact. Would I liked to seen more black world champions, yes I would. But I don't want it to be an affirmative action charity run. Could Shelton had a world title run? Probably but his lack of mic skills and a sustained push killed that chance. Burke suffered from no one believing in him. MVP was the best candidate to win a world title regardless of race but WWE definitely dropped the ball with him. I completely understand that people want someone of their own race winning a major accomplishment. I rather the right person win because they deserve it, not to fill a quota.
|
|