agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
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Post by agent817 on Dec 31, 2011 11:25:33 GMT -5
The Hogan/Piper thread inspired me to do this, as it was around this time when this match happened, only two years later.
What did you think of it? Sure, I think Goldberg was bound to lose someday, because they can't just keep pushing this guy as an unstoppable monster who basically did more squashes than actual matches in his career, not to mention he mostly went against jobbers and mid-carders.
However, some people may say that Nash got the win because he was actually one of the bookers in WCW at the time. Of course, that title reign was meaningless because he ended up dropping it two weeks later in the infamous Fingerpoke of Doom.
I look back and think that Goldberg losing was inevitable. He seemed like he was getting stale at that point, even though it was only a year into his career but I think that he was pushed a little too soon. I think it would have been better if he had lost to some other guy. Sure, Nash and the Wolfpac were also red hot (No pun intended) at the time, but from the Summer to the rest of the year, Goldberg was basically against the nWo and that included the Wolfpac. His match with Sting on Nitro in September of that year showed that he can go a little longer and that Sting, kayfabe-wise, was more than he could handle. I just wish it was like that with other good performers he faced like Curt Hennig, because those matches with Hennig were squashes as well.
What do you think of his first loss looking back?
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Post by mauled on Dec 31, 2011 11:30:50 GMT -5
Didnt he lose to Bret too (ironic when you think what would happen) and lets face it losing to Bret or somone like him should not be considered a career killer
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Post by MysteryStingerfanTheater3000 on Dec 31, 2011 12:54:58 GMT -5
I thought about this a few days ago, looking back it would've maybe been better if Goldberg had lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc, or have Page take Nash's place at Starrcade, and have DDP win the belt in a similar fashion, with some outside interference unbeknownst to him, then you could have a rubber match on the January 4th, 1999 Nitro with a returning Hogan as maybe a guest referee/enforcer, and maybe have the nWo reunion in a beatdown of Page and Goldberg, and let a DDP/Hogan and Goldberg/Nash feud develop through mid 1999.
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nWoElite
Don Corleone
Putting The Band Back Together...
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Post by nWoElite on Dec 31, 2011 13:36:04 GMT -5
If you search on youtube "Kevin Nash Shoot 11" you'll find an interview where he basically tells why they ran it the way they did. It was actually in an attempt to redo Goldberg's streak and refresh the feud between him and the nWo. Hell I liked that idea.
Now I'm sure that various backstage happenings made the original booking veer off from the path, but the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was cleverly placed in. I know everyone wants to trash talk it but think of this: That same year the New Age Outlaws were in a Tag Match for their tittle where they ended up facing each other in the match. Road Dogg small packaged Billy (or was it the other way around) and they left the building, tittles intact. Yet I hear no one clamoring about that match.
Anyway, sorry I got away from the topic. Bottom line. I thought it was clever. In the end it just said that Goldberg's 1st lost couldn't have been done clean, he had to be cheated and THEREFORE he had to exact revenge.
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Some Guy
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 31, 2011 13:56:42 GMT -5
If you search on youtube "Kevin Nash Shoot 11" you'll find an interview where he basically tells why they ran it the way they did. It was actually in an attempt to redo Goldberg's streak and refresh the feud between him and the nWo. Hell I liked that idea. Now I'm sure that various backstage happenings made the original booking veer off from the path, but the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was cleverly placed in. I know everyone wants to trash talk it but think of this: That same year the New Age Outlaws were in a Tag Match for their tittle where they ended up facing each other in the match. Road Dogg small packaged Billy (or was it the other way around) and they left the building, tittles intact. Yet I hear no one clamoring about that match.Anyway, sorry I got away from the topic. Bottom line. I thought it was clever. In the end it just said that Goldberg's 1st lost couldn't have been done clean, he had to be cheated and THEREFORE he had to exact revenge. Is that a serious comparison? They were forced by the commish to wrestle each other for the titles, and outsmarted everyone else in the match by doing the quick roll-up then ran off. Comparing a smart way for them to retain the tag titles to the goddamn Finger Poke of Doom is so, so off I can't even understand why you would compare that. The problem is that the entire mystique around Goldberg was the streak, and killing it and trying to rehash it would not work at all. It's stupid booking to assume that it would.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
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Post by Celgress on Dec 31, 2011 14:09:30 GMT -5
Goldberg should have instead lost to an up and comer (hell maybe even Jericho or Beniot somebody who could out wrestle him in kayfabe and pull off the upset victory), creating a new star in the process, not stale Kevin Nash.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 31, 2011 14:31:49 GMT -5
I did like Nash's initial plan for Goldberg in that time: Goldberg is screwed out of the title, Nash hands the belt to Hogan, Goldberg dissects and finally destroys the nWo en route to recapturing his title.
The problems mainly had to do with timing. For starters, Goldberg injured himself early that year (the punching through the limo window incident, no?), which derailed everything, and secondly Hogan had JUST spent a big chunk of 1998 as the evil, sneaky champion, so people didn't want to see him in that spot again already, even if it was meant to end in a positive way with Goldberg triumphing.
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nWoElite
Don Corleone
Putting The Band Back Together...
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Post by nWoElite on Dec 31, 2011 14:40:41 GMT -5
If you search on youtube "Kevin Nash Shoot 11" you'll find an interview where he basically tells why they ran it the way they did. It was actually in an attempt to redo Goldberg's streak and refresh the feud between him and the nWo. Hell I liked that idea. Now I'm sure that various backstage happenings made the original booking veer off from the path, but the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was cleverly placed in. I know everyone wants to trash talk it but think of this: That same year the New Age Outlaws were in a Tag Match for their tittle where they ended up facing each other in the match. Road Dogg small packaged Billy (or was it the other way around) and they left the building, tittles intact. Yet I hear no one clamoring about that match.Anyway, sorry I got away from the topic. Bottom line. I thought it was clever. In the end it just said that Goldberg's 1st lost couldn't have been done clean, he had to be cheated and THEREFORE he had to exact revenge. Is that a serious comparison? They were forced by the commish to wrestle each other for the titles, and outsmarted everyone else in the match by doing the quick roll-up then ran off. Comparing a smart way for them to retain the tag titles to the goddamn Finger Poke of Doom is so, so off I can't even understand why you would compare that. The problem is that the entire mystique around Goldberg was the streak, and killing it and trying to rehash it would not work at all. It's stupid booking to assume that it would. And so a smart way to drop without injuring or even laying a had to injure? Fingerpoke of Doom. Either way, same result. A team kept the tittle amongst its members is what I was going at. And as for your last comment what kind of moronic booking would allow a streak to go on to the point of redundancy? You actually want people to sit there week after week and watch matches with a guy the by the time PPVs came around you pretty much assumed was going to win! Mostly everyone I knew that watched wrestling would change to Raw when Goldberg's matches came on because you knew he was going to win! It had to be refreshed and anyone who thinks otherwise should sit in the corner with Russo.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 14:45:27 GMT -5
I’ll say this, Nash was over as hell as a babyface at that point and was long overdue his first World title reign (in WCW).
Some people’s revisionist history over the years has tried to suggest that nobody cared about Nash and fans didn’t buy him being the guy to beat Goldberg but that’s not true at all. The Goldberg backlash had already begun. He was getting Goldberg sucks chants in most of the major market cities. Nash was way more over than him at Starrcade. The pop for his win was huge. Of course, then they turned him heel a week later.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 31, 2011 14:56:26 GMT -5
The problems mainly had to do with timing. For starters, Goldberg injured himself early that year (the punching through the limo window incident, no?), which derailed everything, and secondly Hogan had JUST spent a big chunk of 1998 as the evil, sneaky champion, so people didn't want to see him in that spot again already, even if it was meant to end in a positive way with Goldberg triumphing. No, the limo punch was late 1999. Goldberg was perfectly healthy to begin the year and during the bulk of it, WCW just pulled a WCW and went with Hogan/Flair and Samoa Joe'd Goldberg.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 31, 2011 22:05:36 GMT -5
I do think Goldberg got injured around the beginning of 1999, but it's not the limo accident. IIRC, he made his return during the otherwise disastrous Megadeth concert and had a new theme for a couple of months.
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lovingway
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Post by lovingway on Jan 1, 2012 0:19:46 GMT -5
I’ll say this, Nash was over as hell as a babyface at that point and was long overdue his first World title reign (in WCW). Some people’s revisionist history over the years has tried to suggest that nobody cared about Nash and fans didn’t buy him being the guy to beat Goldberg but that’s not true at all. The Goldberg backlash had already begun. He was getting Goldberg sucks chants in most of the major market cities. Nash was way more over than him at Starrcade. The pop for his win was huge. Of course, then they turned him heel a week later. This
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 1, 2012 0:22:40 GMT -5
I loved it and still do. Hate Goldberg and find him to be trash.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 1, 2012 0:39:16 GMT -5
A massive wasted opportunity. WCW should have created a second Goldberg-type up and coming star, let him build a streak, and then eventually defeat Goldberg, who by that time would be heel, and champion.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by lionheart21 on Jan 1, 2012 0:40:58 GMT -5
I've believed it for years, and I'll continue to believe it: the one man that should have broken the Streak was Page.
The reaction that he got after hitting the Diamond Cutter out of the Jackhammer is all the proof that I need. The crowd was red-hot for him, and it would have been a great end to the streak, to have ended it in a close match
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Post by baronmordo on Jan 1, 2012 0:56:42 GMT -5
I agree. Goldberg's streak was DDP's to kill. Instead, they waited way too long to give Page the belt, and had to turn him heel to do it-which killed all his heat. I feel like Diamond Dallas was a fantastic opportunity they lost.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 9:41:19 GMT -5
Up until he faced Page at Halloween Havoc, Goldberg's reign was mainly still squashing scrubs and lower mid-carders. (Okay, he fought the Giant & Curt Hennig. But he had more matches with the Al Greene-types than the stars.) They should have had more matches where Goldberg was wrestling upper-card talent before having him drop the title.
Not only did it make Goldberg look like nothing but a scrub beater who got lucky against Hogan one night, it made Hogan look weak by losing to a guy that faced practically nobody but scrubs.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 1, 2012 14:30:18 GMT -5
I do think Goldberg got injured around the beginning of 1999, but it's not the limo accident. IIRC, he made his return during the otherwise disastrous Megadeth concert and had a new theme for a couple of months. He was hurt in the spring with a knee. I remember Bret attacking him during his match against Sting at Slamberee. Then the Steiners. Goldberg was wearing a heavy brace for a while. Cameback to that megadeath them. Where apart of revenge got Rick Steiner at Road Wild.
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nWoElite
Don Corleone
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Post by nWoElite on Jan 1, 2012 14:50:26 GMT -5
I agree. Goldberg's streak was DDP's to kill. Instead, they waited way too long to give Page the belt, and had to turn him heel to do it-which killed all his heat. I feel like Diamond Dallas was a fantastic opportunity they lost. So you give it to him and you make Goldberg look bad? If he'd dropped to Page then you discredit Goldberg cause it makes him look like he can't beat anybody but lower level peons.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
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Post by Jimmy on Jan 1, 2012 14:58:22 GMT -5
I just can't buy the argument that DDP should have broken it or that it was the right decision to have Nash end it. Neither guy was a draw as a top babyface, Goldberg was. Sure there was a backlash against Goldberg, but it's comparable to Cena. If he's making money, why change it? Ratings went down after DDP won the title and Nash flopped in his babyface title run after they ended the DDP experiment.
The pop from the Starrcade 98 crowd does not make it the right decision for business. Undertaker beating CM Punk for the WWE Title tomorrow would get a pop, but that doesn't make it a good idea for Punk or the title.
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