El Dandy
Don Corleone
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
Posts: 1,901
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Post by El Dandy on Jan 12, 2012 21:13:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Meltzer is a dope. Gorilla made wrestling seem grandiose with his announcing. His commentary brought more character to further accentuate the wrestlers. Giving Bret Hart the moniker of "the Excellent of Execution" for instance, the immovable force versus the irresistible object.
According to Meltzer, if it isn't Japanese, then it isn't any good.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Jan 12, 2012 21:37:29 GMT -5
This thread reminds me about how many will look fondly on Michael Cole in 20 years. Face it, smarks will always be smarks. Granted, there weren't many back then due to lack of knowledge of the inner workings, but the demeanor was still the same. If its new, it sucks, if its 10 years old, its gold. You can say Meltzer was/is the voice of the IWC, so Monsoon getting those awards do not surprise me.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 12, 2012 22:04:18 GMT -5
This thread reminds me about how many will look fondly on Michael Cole in 20 years. Face it, smarks will always be smarks. Granted, there weren't many back then due to lack of knowledge of the inner workings, but the demeanor was still the same. If its new, it sucks, if its 10 years old, its gold. You can say Meltzer was/is the voice of the IWC, so Monsoon getting those awards do not surprise me. But that's the problem, like, I understand looking back at things fondly, and because it was in one's childhood, then you are biased towards that. I understand all that, but even still, I'm trying to find issues with Monsoon's commentary, and nobody is perfect, but there aren't really that many issues with it. Sometimes he may put something over way too much, or use cliches a lot (apparently at the 1987 Survivor Series he said "It's a happening" a ridiculous amount of times). But other then that, what else could you say about the commentary? He made it seem legit, and the reasons given for him being a bad announcer seem a bit stupid. Jim Ross mis-called a lot of moves and made a lot of cliches. Vince McMahon acted like he never saw wrestling before in his life. Jesse Ventura seemed to make good cases for heels at times. Bobby Hennan wasn't serious a lot of the time. A lot of commentators have different issues, but a lot of people don't really look down at these guys. Vince sometimes, his style was certainly different, didn't know a lot of moves (whatamanuver!). Michael Cole isn't a bad character. He's just bad in his role as the main commentator. I don't have any problem with Josh Matthews as the main play by play guy, like, honestly, I just want a normal play-by-play announcer. Gorilla was that. JR was that.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 12, 2012 22:24:07 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 22:25:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Meltzer is a dope. Gorilla made wrestling seem grandiose with his announcing. His commentary brought more character to further accentuate the wrestlers. Giving Bret Hart the moniker of "the Excellent of Execution" for instance, the immovable force versus the irresistible object. According to Meltzer, if it isn't mid 1990s AJPW, then it isn't any good. fixed
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Jan 12, 2012 22:28:25 GMT -5
"Are you kidding me???"
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jan 12, 2012 23:57:21 GMT -5
I liked Ed's commentary work in the late 80's and was a huge fan of his hockey work as well. But I also kind of agree somewhat with Bruce's comments. Ed, if he felt the show strayed too much from the more kid-friendly angles and matches would just out-and -out bury the product on-air during the weekly show .(Stu agreed with Ed, BTW as did Bret) Ed would also bury a lot of the heels by cutting them off mid-promo which, as a mark, I thought was pretty funny. Because, really a lot of the heels in Stampede in the late 80's (with the exception of Bad News, Bob Brown, and Cuban Assasin) were just not that good. X-Pac Heat of Nasty Boy Heat would be the apt description.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 13, 2012 1:12:13 GMT -5
I love Gorilla. I'm still searching out (and might just go ahead and design) a "WILL YOU STOP?!" t-shirt. That said, I can understand why some wouldn't enjoy him so much. I grew up with him, loved his rapport with Heenan, thought he worked great with Ventura, etc. etc. etc., but to a degree I can understand where some of the heels were coming from, if what Meltzer said was true. There'd be times when Monsoon might scoff at a rest hold, when the psychology of most rest holds is that the heel knows it won't win the match, it's meant to wear somebody down. Also, the leg hooking thing...that's a pet peeve of mine for a couple reasons. One - it discounts the validity of something like a lateral press pin, which is a perfectly valid pin attempt, and two - I love the psychology of "go for the pin, why not? You're a three second mistake away from winning, and even if the guy kicks out he has to expend energy to do it." I miss MSG showing old house shows and hearing Gorilla Monsoon berating the refs for not DQing the tag team when someone goes in to try and break up a pin. Same here with his hook the leg fetish.
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Post by happhazzard on Jan 13, 2012 8:46:03 GMT -5
Monsoon was a great commentator. Meltzer was way off base with his criticism of him.
Didn't Mr Fuji get voted worst manager about 5 times in a row, too?
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 13, 2012 10:06:07 GMT -5
Along with Solie and Ross, Monsoon is the greatest announcer in wrestling history.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jan 13, 2012 16:13:37 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I never though Gorilla was a good commentator. I never thought he was bad either. There are much better and worse than him, but I'm not sure what it was like during that period. If Gorilla wasn't the worst, who was?
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Post by wildojinx on Jan 13, 2012 17:05:01 GMT -5
I wonder what Meltzer thought of Heenan's work as a color commentator.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jan 13, 2012 17:08:30 GMT -5
I can see where Dave is coming from. I'll admit that Gorilla did annoy me a little at times, but I never thought he was outright terrible at his job. Especially compared to nowadays when I've been exposed to people like early Don West, Michael Cole, and Mike Adamle.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,350
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 13, 2012 19:13:57 GMT -5
Monsoon was a great commentator. Meltzer was way off base with his criticism of him. Didn't Mr Fuji get voted worst manager about 5 times in a row, too? Yup. Really, of all the guys in WWF at the time, he may have been the worst.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 20:01:13 GMT -5
So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon? No because they were just as big of idiots as he was. Just because his readers voted Gorilla the worst does not mean the general public did nor did it verify Meltzer's opinion. So, who's the bigger idiot? The guy who agrees with Meltzer, or the dummy that didn't hook the leg? I wasn't a wrestling fan while Monsoon was around, but from bits I've gone back and watched, I've noticed similar things about his commentary that Meltzer criticizes, namely making the wrestlers look stupid. He wouldn't just say "shoulda hooked the leg", he would go on and on about it. The submission hold thing too. I don't think he's the worst announcer but those things did bother me. As for naming body parts...that's a pretty silly criticism.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 13, 2012 20:51:52 GMT -5
No because they were just as big of idiots as he was. Just because his readers voted Gorilla the worst does not mean the general public did nor did it verify Meltzer's opinion. So, who's the bigger idiot? The guy who agrees with Meltzer, or the dummy that didn't hook the leg? I wasn't a wrestling fan while Monsoon was around, but from bits I've gone back and watched, I've noticed similar things about his commentary that Meltzer criticizes, namely making the wrestlers look stupid. He wouldn't just say "shoulda hooked the leg", he would go on and on about it. The submission hold thing too. I don't think he's the worst announcer but those things did bother me. As for naming body parts...that's a pretty silly criticism. Jim Ross made Jack Swagger look stupid during a match with Swagger and King. JR yelled at Michael Cole, he uses an ankle lock, but now he has a wrist lock, that's how stupid your guy is.
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Post by happhazzard on Jan 13, 2012 21:35:39 GMT -5
Monsoon was a great commentator. Meltzer was way off base with his criticism of him. Didn't Mr Fuji get voted worst manager about 5 times in a row, too? Yup. Really, of all the guys in WWF at the time, he may have been the worst.[/quote There were plenty of other promotions at the time though. Paul Jones was a worse manager. So was Tony Rumble. Lou Albano was pretty bad as a babyface. Fuji was an 11 time worst manager winner, which is ridiculous IMO.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 22:42:44 GMT -5
I'm surprised no one has brought up that parallel with Jim Ross, as he is essentially the "hometown commentator" of the modern era, and lots of fans just can't let go of him, and neither can the business through their own doing. I think there's something to that. Two of my favorite commentators now are Michael Cole and Tazz, because when I started watching wrestling and could only get Smackdown when it aired early Sunday morning on a local station, those were the commentators. So to me, the voices of wrestling were Cole and Tazz.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Jan 14, 2012 8:26:22 GMT -5
The F4W Board has taken notice of this thread, and Dave has responded...
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
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Post by 67 more on Jan 14, 2012 8:54:50 GMT -5
The F4W Board has taken notice of this thread, and Dave has responded... No one is going to say Mason Ryan is a great worker. Ever. That's like saying Ted Arcidi was a great worker.
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