andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,135
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Post by andrew8798 on Feb 19, 2012 23:39:42 GMT -5
I believe Punk may have brought it up
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Post by gimpocommando on Feb 19, 2012 23:39:51 GMT -5
Wait, how did Cena "antagonize" the audience? The same way he always does, with a smile, a five knuckle shuffle, an AA, and a salute.
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Death by Pickles!
Don Corleone
R.I.P. Derek Boogaard (1982-2011). Long Live the Boogey Man.
Posts: 1,314
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Post by Death by Pickles! on Feb 19, 2012 23:41:20 GMT -5
Wait, how did Cena "antagonize" the audience? The same way he always does, with a smile, a five knuckle shuffle, an AA, and a salute. So, it's his fault the fans are getting all twisted in a knot?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2012 23:41:25 GMT -5
I wanted Cena to snap a little bit and then beat Kane but then realize what he was doing and hold it all back as Kane is being driven away in an ambulance as we hear Kane laughing on his way out. That would have been a great way to set up WM but we have to get Super Cena here. Being down Kane for most of the match doing the most ridiculous stunts such as the repeated step hitting, wheelchair rolling, ambulance AAs and then finally smiling and winking at the camera as it all ends. Really? It's like he was saying "It's all part of the plan kiddies!!! Goodnight folks!!"
This really made Kane look like crap. I have no idea what message this conveyed, what Eve and Ryder's whole idea was in this and even worse how this whole thing makes everyone look. So he's truly going after Rock next? What about Eve? What about Ryder?
If I see Ryder in a wheelchair talking with Eve and Cena and they're all friends again I'm going to Michael J Fox my tv by throwing my remote through it.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Feb 19, 2012 23:41:55 GMT -5
Matches: Best to worst.
1. World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber: -Almost ended up being one of the more boring Elimination Chambers turned into the best match of the pay per view. Very slow start but once Santino got in there the crowd started to wake up. And then, in one of my favourite spots of a chamber match, Big Show breaks the chains over the top of Daniel Bryan's pod and climbs in with him. What a crazy site. It started getting great in the match around the end with Bryan, Wade Barrett and Santino Marella. It was then followed by Santino making the crowd go wild for the possibility of him winning. Bryan gets a strong, clean victory and a star may've been born.
2. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber: -Surprise this was the opener. Pretty good match with Punk going all the way. R-Truth keeps his streak alive of Chamber match losses. Odd seeing Jericho get taken out of the match, but it seems to set up something for Wrestlemania.
3. John Cena vs Kane - Ambulance Match -It was ok, some good stuff in there. Again, John Cena overcomes the odds and his character doesn't change, which was a disappointment.
4. WWE Divas Title; Beth Phoenix (c) vs Tamina -Pretty good match. A 7 minute match on pay per view probably was one of the longest women's matches in years. Some of the divas can do more then just fart.
5. WWE United States Title; Jack Swagger (c) vs Justin Gabriel -Fresh off WWE Superstars, Jack Swagger shows up to defend the Superstars Heavyweight Championship. I kinda wanted Justin to win so it could be something different.
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Post by gimpocommando on Feb 19, 2012 23:43:25 GMT -5
I believe Punk may have brought it up Punk brought it up during his New York Yankees promo on Cena in Boston, Cena even reacted by saying "watch it" or something to that extent. It hasn't even been a year and he's making out passionately with Eve across the country, no one brings it up. Throw continuity out the window, most of his fans don't care or remember. I hope the Rock brings it up (maybe even bring out a fake Cena wife to make this point.) That element of Cena's character should be touched on for more Cena heat prior to his turn.
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Post by gimpocommando on Feb 19, 2012 23:45:31 GMT -5
So, it's his fault the fans are getting all twisted in a knot? In story terms, of course. He's a sports entertainer as he calls himself, but he's not entertaining half the viewer base. He even goes out of his way to remind them that he won't change no matter what, and that as he puts it, he doesn't entertain for them, he entertains for those that cheer him, in doing so telling them that he doesn't care if they want his character to change, because he won't do it for them. That's about as close to the heel staple of saying "I don't care what you want" to the audience as a face can get.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 19, 2012 23:47:36 GMT -5
Ah ok, I guess Punk did mention it; though with it being 'breaking the fourth wall' maybe it's a little sketchy if his character is married rather than just John the guy.
That's a weak rationale of course, but it's the best I could come up with.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Feb 19, 2012 23:53:18 GMT -5
So, it's his fault the fans are getting all twisted in a knot? In story terms, of course. He's a sports entertainer as he calls himself, but he's not entertaining half the viewer base. He even goes out of his way to remind them that he won't change no matter what, and that as he puts it, he doesn't entertain for them, he entertains for those that cheer him, in doing so telling them that he doesn't care if they want his character to change, because he won't do it for them. That's about as close to the heel staple of saying "I don't care what you want" to the audience as a face can get. But really, that's exactly the route WWE should take with Cena if he turns heel. An openly smug pandering sellout Cena is far more entertaining than him being an animalistic destroyer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2012 23:55:45 GMT -5
So, it's his fault the fans are getting all twisted in a knot? In story terms, of course. He's a sports entertainer as he calls himself, but he's not entertaining half the viewer base. He even goes out of his way to remind them that he won't change no matter what, and that as he puts it, he doesn't entertain for them, he entertains for those that cheer him, in doing so telling them that he doesn't care if they want his character to change, because he won't do it for them. That's about as close to the heel staple of saying "I don't care what you want" to the audience as a face can get. John Cena's also established that he cares for every WWE fan, but understands that there are people that are gonna hate him no matter what he does. You can only bend so much for people who hate you before you look like a puppet. A John Cena who panders, polls the audience on what they like/dislike and changing who he is accordingly isn't exactly the role model of the year either. That being said, I agree with those saying Cena being all smiles and jokes in a match with a man who scrippled his best friend with no remorse in a match where the only end result is one of them going to the hospital is a bit damaging to the weight of the angle and the credibility of Kane. But I'm so used to it from him at this point and I think it's a good reason why people tend to turn on him. I was all for this angle going into this match. Silly as the angle was, it's classic hokey pro wrestling. Kane was getting to him, was pitting Cena with ACTUAL adversity, something his character has been lacking for YEARS. I'm perfectly fine with the idea of Cena winning in this case, but just the way he did it where he's seemingly disconnected himself from the whole Eve/Ryder thing and that everything's honky dory in his world just leaves me with a feeling of "why do I get invested in you anyways if NOTHING affects you anymore?"
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Feb 19, 2012 23:56:01 GMT -5
Useless PPV. Did nothing for anyone it seems.
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Post by Error on Feb 19, 2012 23:59:13 GMT -5
Also, I am pissed I couldn't get in my annual prediction pool this year. Would have had a perfect night and a lot of bonus points.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 20, 2012 0:00:07 GMT -5
Useless PPV. Did nothing for anyone it seems. I'd argue Santino came out looking pretty good.
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Post by Error on Feb 20, 2012 0:02:49 GMT -5
Useless PPV. Did nothing for anyone it seems. I'd argue Santino came out looking pretty good. I'd also say Punk looked pretty good, starting the Chamber and leaving champ. Bryan somewhat too since he survived the massive Big Show beating and won.
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Post by gimpocommando on Feb 20, 2012 0:09:39 GMT -5
But really, that's exactly the route WWE should take with Cena if he turns heel. An openly smug pandering sellout Cena is far more entertaining than him being an animalistic destroyer. I don't disagree with you, especially if it means him doing dastardly heelish and nonchalantly ignoring them while still preaching his mantra by tugging on his shirt to show off his slogan. He's quite possibly the best heel of this generation in that regard, simply because he's not as blatant with it. The only thing is, he's still getting half the audience on his side, and while the dynamic has become iconic when tying it with him, it's painfully predictable. I'm not even sure the people who chant Cena sucks in that dueling chant even really dislike him, they say he sucks the way people said it to Kurt Angle. When most people talk about him, its about him changing his character, not going away. I'm not exactly sure what they can do to make the other half hate him without him deviating from his character.
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Post by gimpocommando on Feb 20, 2012 0:23:08 GMT -5
John Cena's also established that he cares for every WWE fan, but understands that there are people that are gonna hate him no matter what he does. You can only bend so much for people who hate you before you look like a puppet. A John Cena who panders, polls the audience on what they like/dislike and changing who he is accordingly isn't exactly the role model of the year either. He isn't a role model no matter what he does in there. He picks fights with the Rock, then says the Rock is after him for who he is. He shows outrage for Del Rio cashing in Money in the Bank, and beating Mysterio the night after, after beating Mysterio for said belt after he had already been in a match the night he won it. He definitely hustles, but he doesn't respect, and he's not loyal. In terms of his character, the guys a total heel. And no true villain thinks he's evil in his actions, they justify everything they do. The real problem is that he doesn't ever even recognize the problems, he just goes on talking about his character like nothing happened. That wouldn't be a bad thing (a delusional heel is fine), but the audience or the roster isn't keen on targeting this at all. You would think with all the feuds Cena has had, with all the things said to and about him, with a guy like Kane trying to force him to not be Superman, you'd think one of these little nuggets would be thrown around, or followed up on, and not just thrown to the wayside. It doesn't help that Cena smiles through most of them to boot. I don't like Cena's character, but I like the potential of his character for story lines. I just wish they would follow through on their ideas, I don't hate them, they just don't see them through. Hopefully tomorrow goes onto correcting that.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 20, 2012 3:51:34 GMT -5
I'd argue Santino came out looking pretty good. I'd also say Punk looked pretty good, starting the Chamber and leaving champ. Bryan somewhat too since he survived the massive Big Show beating and won. Wade looked good as well, he started the Smackdown chamber, was one of the last 3, and did a lot of damage. I think this is the beginning of a Santino push to main eventing after Mania. They gave him a great showing, and the guy is massively over. I can see them pulling the trigger on him being moved to the main event scene.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 4:11:49 GMT -5
Good fun PPV.
Smackdown Elimination Chamber has basically convinced me that Santino somewhere down the line could be a key guy as an actual upper card face. The heat Show/Bryan got from attacking him was insane, the WWE would be stupid not to use that more. The last five minutes with him/D-Bry was brilliant. Show breaking into D-Bry's pod was a nice new spot, and Cody's double Beautiful Disaster kick was top class. Wade looked bad-ass taking on Show with no issue at the start of the match.
Raw EC was good too, and Punk being a little bit rougher with the other guys after messing his hip up was pretty intense (in a subtle way anyhow). Fun though, Miz was great.
Cena/Kane, meh, not bad, not good, and I was irked by Cena doign his good guy stuff after the match BUT hey, he already crossed the line of clean cut good guy last week on Raw with Eve/Zack. He has "embraced the hate" and beat Kane. It makes sense to me anyhow...
Beth/Tamina was decent, however the sheer lack of reaction for ANYTHING made it seem like a 20 minute borefest as opposed to a 10 minute back and forth Divas match. Crowd reaction matters. Hopefully Kharma vs Beth will happen for 'Mania and then the WWE will somehow book the Divas in a better way...
Swagger vs Gabriel was okay for a 2 minute squash, but the Natalya flatulence thing is just horrid...wait that's the wrong word, it is simply naff. It's not disgusting, it's not degrading, it's not getting her over as a heel/face/comedy act. It's just a waste of 3 minutes. Before anyone says "would you prefer her to have no time on shows?" Then yeah, I'd prefer 3 minutes to go on a possible easy diva promo spot, or to a backstage scene without a troll and awful puns. I hate when people make my love of terrible puns into something to dislike...
This may be long winded too:
Biggest dissapointment = Jericho being knocked out in the Raw Chamber. Jericho right now is Mr. Dissapointment. That doesn't make me want to boo him, I want to cheer him, I feel sorry for him as he's lost the Rumble, lost this match in a pants way, and hasn't backed up anything he's claimed. They need to make him seem capable of doing damage as right now Punk with injured hip > Jericho who has achieved nothing since he's been back.
I know, I know, "wait and see" but he didn't win the Rumble, he didn't even take a battering in the Chamber, the only person he's beaten is Kofi fecking Kingston in a 5 minute squash on Raw. And everyone has done that. Best in the World? Nah. Someone to boo? Nah. This character is someone to pity and feel sorry for right now. In kayfabe I have no interest in seeing a guy who fought through an injury to win a tough match face a shell of a wrestler who's done feck all lately on the grandest stage of 'em all.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Feb 20, 2012 5:40:07 GMT -5
Definitely. Cheat on your wife, betray your friends, Antagonize your audience with mediocrity, and troll face through all of it. Cena is one of a kind. Wait, how did Cena "antagonize" the audience? He is also not mediocre
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Feb 20, 2012 6:00:58 GMT -5
John Cena's also established that he cares for every WWE fan, but understands that there are people that are gonna hate him no matter what he does. You can only bend so much for people who hate you before you look like a puppet. A John Cena who panders, polls the audience on what they like/dislike and changing who he is accordingly isn't exactly the role model of the year either. He isn't a role model no matter what he does in there. He picks fights with the Rock, then says the Rock is after him for who he is. He shows outrage for Del Rio cashing in Money in the Bank, and beating Mysterio the night after, after beating Mysterio for said belt after he had already been in a match the night he won it. He definitely hustles, but he doesn't respect, and he's not loyal. In terms of his character, the guys a total heel. And no true villain thinks he's evil in his actions, they justify everything they do. The real problem is that he doesn't ever even recognize the problems, he just goes on talking about his character like nothing happened. That wouldn't be a bad thing (a delusional heel is fine), but the audience or the roster isn't keen on targeting this at all. You would think with all the feuds Cena has had, with all the things said to and about him, with a guy like Kane trying to force him to not be Superman, you'd think one of these little nuggets would be thrown around, or followed up on, and not just thrown to the wayside. It doesn't help that Cena smiles through most of them to boot. I don't like Cena's character, but I like the potential of his character for story lines. I just wish they would follow through on their ideas, I don't hate them, they just don't see them through. Hopefully tomorrow goes onto correcting that. So all the WWE fans are allowed to have their opinions, but Cena isn't?
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