ANTLOL
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,384
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Post by ANTLOL on Sept 3, 2011 2:15:15 GMT -5
...and skinny.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2011 2:16:51 GMT -5
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kerda
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 351
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Post by kerda on Sept 3, 2011 2:22:36 GMT -5
The whole point of what made the original Punk sit-down promo so powerful is that....it wasn't really an angle. It was a guy who had legit grievances, was legitimately considering leaving the company, and who was echoing a lot of the criticism and frustrations long time fans have had about the direction of the product. It was a real person talking about his real life and expressing real dissatisfaction with his workplace, which is something that 99.9% of adults can relate to on a deep, personal level.
That's where WWE failed immensely, in taking that truth-telling firebrand and trying to cast him into a warmed-over McMahon family "Whodunnit!?", throwing soap opera drudgery onto a guy who was connecting with audiences because he was a relateable figure.
Punk has spent years now proving that he "gets it", that he can more than carry his end of a match, and that he has a mind for the business and how to connect with people regardless of his role, so questions about whether he can play face while still maintaining his edge are a bit silly in my view. The real question is whether or not WWE will be willing to loose the shackles from at least one guy on their roster and let Punk be the snarky, self-absorbed, painfully sincere, brutally honest punk rock griot that he's so capable of being, that can act as the perfect counterweight to the upbeat Hogan-ry of Cena and the mustache-twirling (loveable) villainy of Orton.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,538
Member is Online
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 3, 2011 6:09:16 GMT -5
aaaaand it has begun.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2011 6:37:24 GMT -5
What? How you can't say anything negative about Punk around here without people saying it's just backlash because he's being pushed now?
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Post by probable on Sept 3, 2011 7:57:37 GMT -5
As long as he doesn't do any more fake puking promos I'll be fine. That was just cringeworthy, it was the sort of crap I'd have expected from the new DX. See I thought it was funny, very Family Guy esque in the way it went on for so long.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 3, 2011 8:24:02 GMT -5
The new music. The new colors. The running to both sides of the stage playing to the crowd. The insult laden, not as well thought out promos. It's become one of those face turns, and I feel like the fans are kinda crapping on it. He was getting louder, more impassioned reactions around Wrestlemania-time than he is now. I admit to not enjoying him as much as I was before this whole thing went down, its just feeling forced. In no way am I writing him off or downgrading his talent. He's capable of doing something legendary anytime he gets his hands on a mic or steps in the ring. I just feel like some of the magic has left his character. Thoughts? I don't believe it. Because he still out poping Cena. He monster over weekly. Which at WM and before that kinda I think hinted that it was time to turn him. Kinda like HHH back in 06. He was getting cheer more and more. Then started to go that face direction. The same thing I think happened with Punk. He not going to cut ground breaking promos every week. Austin never did or neither did the Rock. But they been good on a weekly basics and that all it needs to be at less. The problem is I agree with who said Over exposed. The WWE is doing that but that just the WWE fault. Punk became red hot because he was the fresh face. Fans was tired of Orton and Cena. As stale Cena is anybody playing a face role in the ME is going to get over big if they have reason to cheer them. Morrison failed because outside his ablity he had nothing. Punk had a ground breaking promo to kick started it. Then changed everything about him. Going from a cult leader for a faction to a guy who speaks his mind and calls himself the best. Is Punk lossing that already? Kinda. The first appearnce on the show he red hot. But after the third or forth time before his match. Not so much because fans get tired of him. Ever been to a supershow? Batista was at olne a few years back I went too and came out with Pyro three times. The crowd become less and less impressed each time. Because again Over Exposed. But Punk's fault its the WWE giving the guy to many segements. Which can maybe killed his ground breaking promos weekly. Because he like ok I have to figure out what to say here and two other times tonight. So all the good stuff as to be spread out.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 8:32:35 GMT -5
The whole point of what made the original Punk sit-down promo so powerful is that....it wasn't really an angle. It was a guy who had legit grievances, was legitimately considering leaving the company, and who was echoing a lot of the criticism and frustrations long time fans have had about the direction of the product. It was a real person talking about his real life and expressing real dissatisfaction with his workplace, which is something that 99.9% of adults can relate to on a deep, personal level. That's where WWE failed immensely, in taking that truth-telling firebrand and trying to cast him into a warmed-over McMahon family "Whodunnit!?", throwing soap opera drudgery onto a guy who was connecting with audiences because he was a relateable figure. Punk has spent years now proving that he "gets it", that he can more than carry his end of a match, and that he has a mind for the business and how to connect with people regardless of his role, so questions about whether he can play face while still maintaining his edge are a bit silly in my view. The real question is whether or not WWE will be willing to loose the shackles from at least one guy on their roster and let Punk be the snarky, self-absorbed, painfully sincere, brutally honest punk rock griot that he's so capable of being, that can act as the perfect counterweight to the upbeat Hogan-ry of Cena and the mustache-twirling (loveable) villainy of Orton. no, it really wasn't. WWE would not have put him into this angle if he had not signed his new contract, so at the very least he was not legitimately thinking of leaving the company. and to be honest I've believed the things Cena and Triple H have said about Punk than anything Punk has claimed.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 3, 2011 10:09:43 GMT -5
That's because the WWE creative department are ran by a bunch of morons, Vince included is part of that category as well. But as a whole it's not Punk's fault that the WWE cannot build a new star.
Here's the way I look at it and now I see why so many people were saying Punk should've been kept off tv. After MITB Punk should've been kept off for about maybe a month to two months, that way the risk of overexposure isn't there, and through the course of those months they could've thrown out cryptic messages, have the Cult of Personality play at some point, and eventually Punk shows up at say Summerslam or NOC.
Granted that means we would've had to sit through the torture device that is SuperCena with the belt. However, it would've made it more interesting if Punk was kept off tv, continued crashing events like ROH, Comic Con, and etc.
They need to stop trying to turn Punk into this babyface and have him just be his own man. That's what made Austin so interesting is because he was himself, he caused chaos, and attacked both heels and faces alike, and stood up to authority regardless of who it was.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2011 10:16:15 GMT -5
The whole point of what made the original Punk sit-down promo so powerful is that....it wasn't really an angle. It was a guy who had legit grievances, was legitimately considering leaving the company, and who was echoing a lot of the criticism and frustrations long time fans have had about the direction of the product. It was a real person talking about his real life and expressing real dissatisfaction with his workplace, which is something that 99.9% of adults can relate to on a deep, personal level. That's where WWE failed immensely, in taking that truth-telling firebrand and trying to cast him into a warmed-over McMahon family "Whodunnit!?", throwing soap opera drudgery onto a guy who was connecting with audiences because he was a relateable figure. Punk has spent years now proving that he "gets it", that he can more than carry his end of a match, and that he has a mind for the business and how to connect with people regardless of his role, so questions about whether he can play face while still maintaining his edge are a bit silly in my view. The real question is whether or not WWE will be willing to loose the shackles from at least one guy on their roster and let Punk be the snarky, self-absorbed, painfully sincere, brutally honest punk rock griot that he's so capable of being, that can act as the perfect counterweight to the upbeat Hogan-ry of Cena and the mustache-twirling (loveable) villainy of Orton. Very well said, especially on the point of once again seeing a promising WWE angle turn into a McMahon family soap opera. That's all there is to this: Punk is over now, for certain, but Punk had the ability to give WWE the mainstream exposure and acceptance it's been craving since Rock and Austin...but they willfully threw it away. Completely squandered opportunity.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 3, 2011 10:18:40 GMT -5
I pretty much called it that the WWE would ruin it. Funny how some things never change.
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Post by foreveryoung on Sept 3, 2011 10:23:37 GMT -5
Oh great character.. has it all.. If anything has hurt him its been the complete S*** booking they have done to him. Number 1 he shouldnt be fueding with the career killer, heat killer, overness killer, in Triple H ( who isnt even an active wrestler anymore, and can't ever be 1 upped, has to come out of the fued as the winner most of the time).. That does NOTHING for him except stagnate him. He shouldn't be fueding with a 50 year old 15 year past prime Nash. Why should Cena fued with Del Rio for countles title matches? Punk was the real champion kayfabe wise. He should get the rematch long before Cena ever does?
Its poor booking.., not poor character development
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 3, 2011 10:26:28 GMT -5
Oh great character.. has it all.. If anything has hurt him its been the complete S*** booking they have done to him. Number 1 he shouldnt be fueding with the career killer, heat killer, overness killer, in Triple H ( who isnt even an active wrestler anymore).. That does NOTHING for him except stagnate him. He shouldn't be fueding with a 50 year old 15 year past prime Nash. Its poor booking..r, not poor character development Fans in Denial: But, you need to give it a chance. Why are you complaining?! This is awesome and great storytelling! You don't know what's going to happen! Sadly your post is extremely accurate. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png)
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Post by foreveryoung on Sept 3, 2011 10:34:20 GMT -5
Oh great character.. has it all.. If anything has hurt him its been the complete S*** booking they have done to him. Number 1 he shouldnt be fueding with the career killer, heat killer, overness killer, in Triple H ( who isnt even an active wrestler anymore).. That does NOTHING for him except stagnate him. He shouldn't be fueding with a 50 year old 15 year past prime Nash. Its poor booking..r, not poor character development Fans in Denial: But, you need to give it a chance. Why are you complaining?! This is awesome and great storytelling! You don't know what's going to happen! Sadly your post is extremely accurate. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) Oh I agree it is denial. I shudder to think how over Punk would be at this very moment, if the seeds were laid for Cena to turn heel soon, side with Vince and going up against the "status quo". Thats what got him over to begin with. ( at the highest level), his fued with Vince and the issues with Cena. They have completely gone away from all that its horrible what they did to Punk. He still over, but IMO nowhere near what he actually could be if they continued with main storyline premise without diluting everything. Someone should have been legitimately fired over this mess. They took something with the potential to be the biggest angle since the invasion, and made it a muddled mess. This is what would have happened if they just "cold turkey'd" the Austin-Vince fued and decided to end that in the first few weeks and have Austin fued with Triple H and Stephanie and Patterson and Brisco in a handicap match and trying to figure out who texted Big Bossman to lay Austin out ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2011 10:36:30 GMT -5
I still think that the Punk shooting storyline's potential and quality has been blown way, way out of proportion in the first place, but it was still definitely better than this crap they're doing now.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 10:52:12 GMT -5
That's because the WWE creative department are ran by a bunch of morons, Vince included is part of that category as well. But as a whole it's not Punk's fault that the WWE cannot build a new star. Here's the way I look at it and now I see why so many people were saying Punk should've been kept off tv. After MITB Punk should've been kept off for about maybe a month to two months, that way the risk of overexposure isn't there, and through the course of those months they could've thrown out cryptic messages, have the Cult of Personality play at some point, and eventually Punk shows up at say Summerslam or NOC. Granted that means we would've had to sit through the torture device that is SuperCena with the belt. However, it would've made it more interesting if Punk was kept off tv, continued crashing events like ROH, Comic Con, and etc. They need to stop trying to turn Punk into this babyface and have him just be his own man. That's what made Austin so interesting is because he was himself, he caused chaos, and attacked both heels and faces alike, and stood up to authority regardless of who it was. it sounds like making him "his own man" would also make him entirely purposeless. He's trying to fufill his goals, that's all he's doing
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Post by cool guy on Sept 3, 2011 11:03:30 GMT -5
I just think he has to feud with someone who's a definite heel. The Cena feud was great to establish him, but he can't straight into another face/face feud right after that.
So I guess I'm saying I hope HHH will turn soon.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 11:03:38 GMT -5
The whole point of what made the original Punk sit-down promo so powerful is that....it wasn't really an angle. It was a guy who had legit grievances, was legitimately considering leaving the company, and who was echoing a lot of the criticism and frustrations long time fans have had about the direction of the product. It was a real person talking about his real life and expressing real dissatisfaction with his workplace, which is something that 99.9% of adults can relate to on a deep, personal level. That's where WWE failed immensely, in taking that truth-telling firebrand and trying to cast him into a warmed-over McMahon family "Whodunnit!?", throwing soap opera drudgery onto a guy who was connecting with audiences because he was a relateable figure. Punk has spent years now proving that he "gets it", that he can more than carry his end of a match, and that he has a mind for the business and how to connect with people regardless of his role, so questions about whether he can play face while still maintaining his edge are a bit silly in my view. The real question is whether or not WWE will be willing to loose the shackles from at least one guy on their roster and let Punk be the snarky, self-absorbed, painfully sincere, brutally honest punk rock griot that he's so capable of being, that can act as the perfect counterweight to the upbeat Hogan-ry of Cena and the mustache-twirling (loveable) villainy of Orton. Very well said, especially on the point of once again seeing a promising WWE angle turn into a McMahon family soap opera. That's all there is to this: Punk is over now, for certain, but Punk had the ability to give WWE the mainstream exposure and acceptance it's been craving since Rock and Austin...but they willfully threw it away. Completely squandered opportunity. as a fairly mainstream individual I have no idea what this supposed mainstream appeal of Punk is.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Sept 3, 2011 12:01:59 GMT -5
I just think he has to feud with someone who's a definite heel. The Cena feud was great to establish him, but he can't straight into another face/face feud right after that. So I guess I'm saying I hope HHH will turn soon. Triple H is probably past the point where people are going to boo him. He's only wrestling a few times a year, at best and is definitely in "living legend" territory at this point. Plus, his promo at the contract signing makes it fairly hard to boo him; he's been willing to meet Punk more than halfway and only receives childish insults about his wife in return. I'd move Punk into a feud with Miz/Truth. Have Miz/Truth try to recruit him against The Conspiracy, have Punk derride them for only being out for themselves.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 3, 2011 12:23:59 GMT -5
Fans in Denial: But, you need to give it a chance. Why are you complaining?! This is awesome and great storytelling! You don't know what's going to happen! Sadly your post is extremely accurate. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) Oh I agree it is denial. I shudder to think how over Punk would be at this very moment, if the seeds were laid for Cena to turn heel soon, side with Vince and going up against the "status quo". Thats what got him over to begin with. ( at the highest level), his fued with Vince and the issues with Cena. They have completely gone away from all that its horrible what they did to Punk. He still over, but IMO nowhere near what he actually could be if they continued with main storyline premise without diluting everything. Someone should have been legitimately fired over this mess. They took something with the potential to be the biggest angle since the invasion, and made it a muddled mess. This is what would have happened if they just "cold turkey'd" the Austin-Vince fued and decided to end that in the first few weeks and have Austin fued with Triple H and Stephanie and Patterson and Brisco in a handicap match and trying to figure out who texted Big Bossman to lay Austin out ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) That's why I stopped watching WWE altogether. The potential of this storyline was limitless, I could actually stomach the idea of Punk feuding with Del Rio over the title as they incorporate the curent angle. Because at least the focus would be on Punk and Del Rio, as well as the idea of a new Corporation being started. But instead Vince feels the need to insert FAMILY into this story, Hunter's ego is too big to accept that he isn't as good as he thinks he is, and Punk, along with Del Rio is suffering from the effects of this as well.
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