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Post by anticonscience on Mar 31, 2012 16:08:31 GMT -5
Well one stupid little thought that I just had was whether or not this will hurt Steen's storyline. The fans are fully behind him and desperately want him to get a title match partially since the main event scene was so stale. But after a match this great, my fear is that Steen's support will dwindle as the fans clamor for Elgin to get a rematch instead
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
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Post by Steveweiser on Mar 31, 2012 16:12:30 GMT -5
Knowing the short term-ism of ROH fans, wouldn't be surprised if fans turned against Steen again.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 16:15:36 GMT -5
Given the hipster nature of alot of ROH fans, it wouldn't surprise me to see the hive mind think it cool & trendy to turn on Steen. Just so some loser can brag over the internet how he booed Steen before it was cool to.
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Tiger Maskooo
Samurai Cop
I cant hear you over the sound of how much im tiger masking
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Post by Tiger Maskooo on Mar 31, 2012 17:24:59 GMT -5
I think with steen,it really depends.
It depends if theyre ballsy enough to go with it. ROH since tyler black didnt beat nigel at final battle has shown alot of tendencies of choking.
It's a question of if they decide to make the mistake of postponing it like they do lately.
Also,I think they really need to decide whether steens a heel or a face. I'm pretty confused on it myself.
I mean he plays to the crowd,he does what the crowd asks him to do and he doesnt insult the crowd. He wins most of his matches within fair means without cheating. He's always making jokes.
Yet somehow jacobs alligning with him is a heel turn? Or did I miss something?
If they try to make him a dastardly villain character that could really bomb.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 17:39:21 GMT -5
I think with steen,it really depends. It depends if theyre ballsy enough to go with it. ROH since tyler black didnt beat nigel at final battle has shown alot of tendencies of choking. It's a question of if they decide to make the mistake of postponing it like they do lately. Also,I think they really need to decide whether steens a heel or a face. I'm pretty confused on it myself. I mean he plays to the crowd,he does what the crowd asks him to do and he doesnt insult the crowd. He wins most of his matches within fair means without cheating. He's always making jokes. Yet somehow jacobs alligning with him is a heel turn? Or did I miss something? If they try to make him a dastardly villain character that could really bomb. I think it's a case of basically Steve Austin, or CM Punk from last year's summer. He's the man the people want but the front office hates him. So Jacobs aligning himself with Steen, and in turn going against the front office, is making him a heel too. Though with how good Jacobs is at getting and maintaining heat, even when he's beloved by the fans, I'm curious how that's going to work with the current dynamic. That said...since Tyler? More like since Nigel, dude. They got cold feet on pulling the trigger on stuff before Gabe even left.
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Tiger Maskooo
Samurai Cop
I cant hear you over the sound of how much im tiger masking
Posts: 2,384
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Post by Tiger Maskooo on Mar 31, 2012 17:48:00 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be a jerk but I still dont understand it.
I mean I get that the people want steen and he's an anti hero but I really dont get the jacobs part of it.
Would jacobs be an anti hero as well?
I think my heads going to explode.
And as far as nigel,yeah. Hell,I'll even say that I always thought that it was odd that they never had shelley win at manhattan mayhem 05 but I think that tyler was the biggest example to me of choking. I mean nigel,he got it months later. Tyler got it over a year later.
Though to be fair,I was never the worlds biggest tyler fan.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 18:07:21 GMT -5
I agree, from a logical standpoint, Shelley should've won the ROH title at that event. The story felt wonky and Shelley was damaged goods in ROH after that. But Gabe & Cary both never wanted to put the belt on him because they knew he cared about other places more. Feeling that it would make the belt look bad and like ROH was just some other indie than a major company.
....Which further makes the Noble thing later that year questionable.
And yeah, I think(?) Jacobs is meant to be an anti-hero. Or, if I'm a betting man, Jacobs is going to be what finally drives home the point of what Steen is. Jacobs is too good of a heel to get cheered. And it would make sense, from a storyline standpoint, if Jacobs is the make or break situation for Steen eventually. Where he either fully gives into a heel like state or he sees something Jacobs does as too much and shows enough goodness to him to make him an official anti-hero.
Course, then there's the part of this story that branches into CHIKARA, where he's clearly not an anti-hero and full blown heel...
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
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Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Mar 31, 2012 18:43:07 GMT -5
In this case, I should separate my "this is all one career" thinking, and treat Steen exclusively as a heel in Chikara, and still like him in ROH. If I can buy Del Rey as a face in Chikara and a heel in SHIMMER, I can do this with Steen.
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Post by froggyfrog on Mar 31, 2012 19:18:35 GMT -5
Following reports that last night's iPPV was having technical issues, word is that today's event also had problems. While yesterday's issues were with sound and picture synching, today's show suffered from a brown out in the area which was out of the control of the promotion. This affected power in the area and causing a 27-minute blank screen, and fans to miss the Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilly match.
Also, as the Young Bucks vs. All Night Express match was starting, there was a second picture and sound failure, with things returning for the tag team title match.
-411mania
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Mar 31, 2012 20:17:44 GMT -5
Now that I don't have to be very careful to avoid seeing any spoilers, and even though I missed some stuff even with the replay (ending of TJP/Fire Ant, entirety of O'Reilly/Cole and ANX/Bucks street fight), I'll say that it was a good show. Excellent match between Richards and Elgin.
If only we hadn't all been subjected to so much frustration when we tried to watch it live. I want this promotion to really take off, but considering how disappointing Final Battle was and now the problems with this one, it's going to make a lot of people reconsider buying in the future.
I did not see the TV title change coming, as I thought Lethal would need to hang onto the thing in order for his feud with Ciampa to continue and that Roddy was gonna either go to a draw or do the job. Glad to be wrong, since it was time for the strap to change hands.
Likewise, even though Davey was able to both win and put Elgin over simultaneously, it's time for the world title to change hands as well. So in my opinion, they need to schedule Steen vs. Richards for the next iPPV.
If Davey defends it against anybody else, we know before the bell rings that it isn't changing hands because of how much time the promotion's devoted to this angle of Steen calling Davey specifically out for a title shot. The only satisfactory way for the story to end is for the two of them to go at it for the title, and that can't happen if somebody else is champion. If Davey loses the strap to anybody other than Steen, Steen has no reason to keep harassing him, and it will make all of Steen's previous interactions with Davey pointless and anticlimactic.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
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Post by Corporate H on Mar 31, 2012 20:31:16 GMT -5
I already don't like Steen so that will be easily. Sure he's a great in-ring performer, but the overall package is off putting. Terrible look, no promo skills outside of being fat and loud, and just a tiring annoying character overall.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 20:32:21 GMT -5
I already don't like Steen so that will be easily. Sure he's a great in-ring performer, but the overall package is off putting. Terrible look, no promo skills outside of being fat and loud, and just a tiring annoying character overall. Like others have said, he's the ROH fanbase.
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Steveweiser
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Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
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Post by Steveweiser on Apr 1, 2012 15:29:41 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer said there's only been about three matches in WrestleMania history that were as good as Richards/Elgin.
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Post by wolf211 on Apr 1, 2012 15:55:54 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer said there's only been about three matches in WrestleMania history that were as good as Richards/Elgin. Did he give it a rating?
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
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Post by Steveweiser on Apr 1, 2012 15:56:30 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer said there's only been about three matches in WrestleMania history that were as good as Richards/Elgin. Did he give it a rating? The full five snowflakes.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Apr 1, 2012 16:13:57 GMT -5
The full five snowflakes. Well, he only gave 5 stars to 2 WM matches (Razor/HBK ladder match and Bret/Austin I Quit match) so either he's having one of his lack of consistency moments or he probably only meant 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 16:22:14 GMT -5
Just caught up, really awesome set of shows and I seem to have benefitted somewhat from viewing the live broadcast, since I didn't get any of the sound issues.
I'm really curious if these persistent problems with their live broadcasts are commonplace on GFL.tv live iPPVs or if ROH really needs to step their game up. I don't know what it takes to broadcast a live internet pay per view, but I just don't see any improvement over the last few shows. I really wanted to see Cole/O'Reilly and the tag team street fight.
Anyways, incredible show all technical issues aside. Michael Elgin vs. Davey Richards was everything I was hoping it would be. I'm thrilled that it seems that Jimmy Jacobs and El Generico are still with ROH and that "El Revancha" doesn't appear to be a write off for him. Steen vs. El Generico was just awesome, what a tear Kevin Steen is on in terms of PPV matches.
I'm as sick of the concept of Richards/Roderick/Edwards as anyone else but I can't deny their triple threat was just great. The Jimmy Jacobs heel turn was well done and Jacobs/Steen are gonna be the most evil thing to ever happen. Can't wait to see how Corino responds to that development.
Militant asshole Charlie Haas is just awesome. The way he's just so had it with the ROH audience is awesome to watch, and WGTT did great over the weekend with their matches. Also anyone who says Mike Bennett is a bad worker after his match with Lance Storm is so full of shit it's not even an argument. You don't have to like him but he's not lost in there, he's a really talented guy and that was a fantastic match.
As for the Steen discussion I really hope that the fans do turn on Steen because Steen's character is the intended heel in this angle anyways. If they found in Elgin a face popular enough to win over popularity over Steen then I'd say that's a job well done. I think it's a stronger narrative that Steen gets sold as a bad guy, because his character really is a psychopath, and Elgin vs. Kevin Steen might just be the most badass match we could get in ROH.
Really great couple of shows and Wrestlemania should put a cap on the weekend pretty nicely.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 1, 2012 16:23:36 GMT -5
I think I might havt to look into this Richards/Elgin match.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Apr 1, 2012 17:09:28 GMT -5
Richards V. Elgin got 5 stars?!?! I've got to see this match.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Apr 1, 2012 17:27:19 GMT -5
Me to, how much are the replays of the shows?
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