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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Apr 27, 2012 21:18:48 GMT -5
Nigel McGuinness
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Apr 27, 2012 21:19:09 GMT -5
All of them?
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 27, 2012 21:25:42 GMT -5
Is this post actually here? I...wow, I honestly thought we had moved past thoughts like this, as a forum. Saying that there's no one of value on the indies is...insane.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Apr 27, 2012 21:29:11 GMT -5
Is this post actually here? I...wow, I honestly thought we had moved past thoughts like this, as a forum. Saying that there's no one of value on the indies is...insane. move past what? trolling? of course not, its the internet
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 27, 2012 22:03:18 GMT -5
Is this post actually here? I...wow, I honestly thought we had moved past thoughts like this, as a forum. Saying that there's no one of value on the indies is...insane. overrated does not mean no value, overrated means not as valuable as is believed
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
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Post by Mac on Apr 27, 2012 22:52:54 GMT -5
Reckless Youth.
Not sure how long I sat and listened in the early days of Prodigy and AOL to people saying he was the next great. Obviously I never saw much New Jersey indy wrestling, but when I watched his stuff years later.... meh
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 23:13:15 GMT -5
Is this post actually here? I...wow, I honestly thought we had moved past thoughts like this, as a forum. Saying that there's no one of value on the indies is...insane. overrated does not mean no value, overrated means not as valuable as is believed If that truly applies to the original post then that means any worker universally reviled is still regarded too highly. Everyone independent worker is overrated = daft as a straight up statement
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Post by mjolnir on Apr 27, 2012 23:30:43 GMT -5
Davey Richards, Roderick Strong, Eddie Edwards and Kyle O'Reily, World's Greatest Tag Team, The Young Bucks, Jigsaw, Johnny f***ing Gargano for some of the current crop.
As much as I enjoyed certain matches of his and certain promos, I do contest the few people that have said Nigel have a point. Nigel's issue was very much he was a good talent and could be led to a great match by talent as good as him or better...but he couldn't lead anyone to a good match himself. He was very much only as good as the talent he was in the ring with. TNA especially exposed this aspect to him. Put him in there with a Cabana, Daniel Bryan, Samoa Joe, Homicide, Morishima, Kurt Angle, you'll have something.
Put him in there with a talent a step below and...eh.
Also Starshine has a good point about Quack, as much as I like him too. His matches the past few years have become progressively more & more a case of "You've seen it once, you've seen it all".
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 27, 2012 23:31:56 GMT -5
Davey Richards, Roderick Strong, Eddie Edwards and Kyle O'Reily, World's Greatest Tag Team, The Young Bucks, Jigsaw, Johnny f***ing Gargano for some of the current crop. As much as I enjoyed certain matches of his and certain promos, I do contest the few people that have said Nigel have a point. Nigel's issue was very much he was a good talent and could be led to a great match by talent as good as him or better...but he couldn't lead anyone to a good match himself. He was very much only as good as the talent he was in the ring with. TNA especially exposed this aspect to him. Put him in there with a Cabana, Daniel Bryan, Samoa Joe, Homicide, Morishima, Kurt Angle, you'll have something. Put him in there with a talent a step below and...eh. I've heard the exact same thing you've said about Nigel said about Kerry Von Erich, and I think it fits for both guys. They were really only as good as the other guy in the ring.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,176
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Apr 27, 2012 23:58:01 GMT -5
Eh, who really overrates him now? Pretty much everywhere slags him.
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Post by mjolnir on Apr 28, 2012 0:16:04 GMT -5
Eh, who really overrates him now? Pretty much everywhere slags him. Some of the people at 101 act like he's the second coming of Quackenbush. And I agree with that comparison, Spanky. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being that guy either. There have been plenty of big names that have been that way. It's just that I sort of scoff when people say he's on par with, say, Bryan. Bryan, who could have great matches with sub-par opponents, and who could carry them to enjoyable matches. Aries, actually, is a case very much like Nigel and it's why, as entertaining as he can be, I've always considered him below the greats of the indie scene too. A great example between someone who can carry a match (Bryan, in this case) and someone who can't (Aries, in this case), is Jimmy Jacobs. Jimmy Jacobs is a solid in-ring talent that can have a good match, given the right scenario. Daniel & him actually had a really entertaining match together. Aries and Jacobs, on the other hand, had some less impressive matches together. Even when they were tossed one of Jacobs' bones in getting hardcore style matches together.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Apr 28, 2012 1:33:53 GMT -5
I'd say:
Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards (I can buy Roderick as Main Event material, but not the other two, really. Maybe it's just that Strong has been there so long, and was part of Generation Next, the last big grouping of young RoH talent before the RoH became Dragon Gate and then dropped all of that.)
Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilly (got to the main event WAY too quick. RoH really needs some former champs hanging around to elevate talent into main event status. Losing most of their former champs to WWE/TNA really makes it hard to beat people with history.)
Cheerleader Mellisa (I'd never really thought about it before, but she's totally treated as if she's head and shoulders above everyone else in SHIMMER, when really, she's on the same level as most of their main event talent. There's no real disparity anymore)
Johnny Gargano (his non-Chikara hotness really IS cheapened by hanging out with the awesomeness that is Chucky T.)
I absolutely disagree on Kevin Steen. The man can tell amazing stories in and out of the ring. I wish Eddie Kingston wasn't SuperKing, but hopefully we see real vulnerability out of him tomorrow. I think the WGTT would fit in TNA way better than they do in RoH, where they just don't feel special.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Apr 28, 2012 2:04:24 GMT -5
Aries, although I guess he's currently moved up from indy to upper minor league
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 28, 2012 12:48:21 GMT -5
I haven't seen a lot of indie wrestling, but I'll go with Davey Richards. Saw him live about a year and a half ago and it mostly stiff kicks and minimal selling. Rocky and Don Kernodle, who worked for JCP in the '80s, were sitting a row or 2 up from me, and after exchanging a few glances, they both shook their heads and left.
If he still counts, I'll go with Paul London. I've just never found anything likeable about him.
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
Kinda Homeless
Posts: 13,571
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Post by theryno665 on Apr 28, 2012 12:58:46 GMT -5
Of all time has to be Nick Mondo. The guy built a sizable fanbase by being nothing but a yard-tard. I don't know, of all the glorified backyard wrestlers, I considered Mondo to the one of the least offensive. At least he could do stuff and managed to get out of the business before he crippled himself.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,164
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Apr 28, 2012 13:18:24 GMT -5
Eh, who really overrates him now? Pretty much everywhere slags him. Some of the people at 101 act like he's the second coming of Quackenbush. And I agree with that comparison, Spanky. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being that guy either. There have been plenty of big names that have been that way. It's just that I sort of scoff when people say he's on par with, say, Bryan. Bryan, who could have great matches with sub-par opponents, and who could carry them to enjoyable matches. Aries, actually, is a case very much like Nigel and it's why, as entertaining as he can be, I've always considered him below the greats of the indie scene too. A great example between someone who can carry a match (Bryan, in this case) and someone who can't (Aries, in this case), is Jimmy Jacobs. Jimmy Jacobs is a solid in-ring talent that can have a good match, given the right scenario. Daniel & him actually had a really entertaining match together. Aries and Jacobs, on the other hand, had some less impressive matches together. Even when they were tossed one of Jacobs' bones in getting hardcore style matches together. I'm bound to disagree because I love Aries but the Aries/Jimmy/Lacey feud is one of my favourite feuds ever and the final match at Rising Above was a fantastic match from all standpoints IMO.
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Post by Manute Bol on Apr 28, 2012 14:31:42 GMT -5
Everybody on the ROH roster besides The Briscoe Brothers and The All-Night Express. ROH is a shell of it's former self and I can't for the life of me figure out why people think the WWE should sign Kevin Steen or El Generico. But the most overrated hands down is Roderick Strong. He was dead weight during the ROH glory days of Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson and CM Punk and he just won't go away!
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Post by Kitty Shamrocks on Apr 28, 2012 14:48:13 GMT -5
Gotta go with the already mentioned Edwards/Richards/Strong trio. Solid in the ring, but I just find them so devoid of anything interesting.
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Lukin Stontmehn
Don Corleone
This aggression will not stand, man.
Serves glasses of water from the bathroom sink to his guests
Posts: 1,737
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Post by Lukin Stontmehn on Apr 28, 2012 15:36:03 GMT -5
Cueball Carmichael
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,329
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Apr 28, 2012 19:17:16 GMT -5
Guys - Hmm... Beyond the popular votes.
Firstly, Ciampa and Mike Bennett. Two guys who honestly really do need the managers they keep around. Without them, they aren't much. Mike has a character, but it just doesn't show nearly enough in the ring. And Ciampa is just too simplistic right now.
Also Eddie Kingston. I think the complaints about Steen's weight are valid, but I also think they can apply to Eddie, in that I think it effects his matches. I also think his reign as champ has been too dominant. Vin's destruction, fine. Brodie's lost, cool since he's leaving. Ophidian's, while he's in a major storyline?
Women - There's a bit, like a bunch of the long time SHIMMER wrestlers (ie: Danger, Ariel, even Nikki Roxx).
As the International talent started to show up at SHIMMER (the Canadians, the Australians, the Japanese, the Europeans, the Canadians redux, the Japanese redux), it really has made me rethink about the standards of women's wrestling.
Because honestly, when you watch wrestlers as good as Hamada, Nakagawa, Ray, and Leon, it's kind of difficult to be impressed with even the upper-tier SHIMMER originals in ring wise.
And when you see characters like the Knights, the Ninjas, Rush, Kana, and Skater, it's hard to look at the American wrestlers as highly as you used to.
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