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Post by Alexander The So-so on Dec 19, 2011 4:58:18 GMT -5
State TV said that he died after "great mental and physical strain" from a "high intensity field inspection."
So yeah...you gotta watch out for those field inspections there, buster.
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Post by moneyman20 on Dec 19, 2011 4:59:41 GMT -5
Isn't his son supposed to be his successor? And isn't he said to be just as big of an asshole? Things probably aren't going to change much. Actually they think his son is a complete moron rather than an asshole.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 19, 2011 5:07:03 GMT -5
Isn't his son supposed to be his successor? And isn't he said to be just as big of an asshole? Things probably aren't going to change much. Actually they think his son is a complete moron rather than an asshole. I already have my surprised face warmed up and ready for if a coup d'etat takes place.
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erisi236
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Post by erisi236 on Dec 19, 2011 11:09:09 GMT -5
Kind of telling that the Il children look to be the only people in NK who weigh over 200lbs.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Dec 19, 2011 11:40:16 GMT -5
Wow, bin Laden and Kim Jon Il in the same year. Team America? Warning: language I was thinking of the same thing!
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Post by texaswhopper on Dec 19, 2011 11:45:37 GMT -5
There are probably at least a few people over there not happy his kid is taking over.
"AWW man he has a son?! I'm outta here."
*packs bags
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 19, 2011 12:10:52 GMT -5
Actually they think his son is a complete moron rather than an asshole. I already have my surprised face warmed up and ready for if a coup d'etat takes place. Not likely. Kim Jong Il himself never really held all that much power, certainly nothing like his father did. Kim's son, just like his father, is really just a playboy wannabee who just fills a figurehead role. North Korea is really run by a cabal of generals and communist party officials and has been ever since Kim Il Sung died. Nothing is going to change.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 19, 2011 12:38:32 GMT -5
What bothers me about that clip is if these people are being genuine, then it's the most oppresive and terrifying thing I've ever seen. If they're not, they must be terrified they'll be shot for not mourning hard enough. For many, those reactions are 100% legit. I forget the name, but there is a doc on Netflix about N. Korea. Because of media portrayal, anything positive in the life of a N. Korean(which sadly, for most, is not a whole lot) is directly because of Kim Jong Il. There was one scene where someone receives medical treatment, and rather than thanking the doctor or modern science, they directly thank Kim. Maybe it's hard for me to comprehend, as I live in a country where mocking your leaders is practically a national pastime (and sometimes, it can even make you rich), but I imagine that while a lot of that wailing and gnashing is legit, at least a small segment of those people would have to be deliberately amping up their grief. It's still scary as hell either way.
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Dec 19, 2011 12:38:49 GMT -5
Then, and I really hate to say this, maybe it is best that North Korea stay in this isolation from the rest of the world. IF freedom does ever come and all this is swept away, imagine how devastating it will be the the national psyche for North Koreans to find out how deceived they have been. That sounds wildly preferable to their current situation, and not just them, but those kidnapped and brought into the country, a not uncommon occurrence. The truth hurts, but it beats making sure your kids and their kids live the lie. I agree that when freedom does come to North Korea, it will be good, I just wonder how many generations it will take to fix the damage to these poor people. I was just postulating if the cure was worse than the disease or not. You could argue either way quite frankly.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 19, 2011 12:57:09 GMT -5
That sounds wildly preferable to their current situation, and not just them, but those kidnapped and brought into the country, a not uncommon occurrence. The truth hurts, but it beats making sure your kids and their kids live the lie. I agree that when freedom does come to North Korea, it will be good, I just wonder how many generations it will take to fix the damage to these poor people. I was just postulating if the cure was worse than the disease or not. You could argue either way quite frankly. It only took 2 to establish that cult of personality. I'd imagine if you opened the floodgates of information it wouldn't take many to undo it. The damage to the infrastructure of the country itself over this time period though, may take a bit more work. I highly recommend the documentary mentioned above, i believe it was National Geographic: Inside North Korea,hosted by Lisa Ling (who I still associate with the school news channel Channel One) Other good ones are Kimjongilia, and A State of Mind (focuses on two girl gymnasts preparing for one of their mass games) There was also a documentary about a few US soldiers who defected to North Korea. Interesting story.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 19, 2011 13:11:09 GMT -5
Theres a good book from an American's point of view that snuk into North Korea for three days called Three Days in the Hermit Kingdom: An American Visits North Korea.
It is a good read, he even tried to give Kim Jon Il a Bootsie Collins CD.
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Post by walsh7637 on Dec 19, 2011 13:30:28 GMT -5
There are probably at least a few people over there not happy his kid is taking over. "AWW man he has a son?! I'm outta here." *packs bags *then realizes they don't have any bags or possessions they can bring, and have no way to leave the country, and are then shot by national police for attempting to think on their own And THAT's how it probably works in North Korea, sadly.
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Dec 19, 2011 13:52:07 GMT -5
Well, here's another concern: does anyone seriously think China would LET regime change take place in North Korea without a fight?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 13:55:02 GMT -5
I love being a typical American and not having to care about this kind of stuff.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Dec 19, 2011 14:12:18 GMT -5
Wow, bin Laden and Kim Jon Il in the same year. Team America? Don't forget Gaddafi. Only 13 days left, any more crazy dictators to take out? Yes, Mamoud Imanutjob in Iran.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 19, 2011 14:16:52 GMT -5
Don't forget Gaddafi. Only 13 days left, any more crazy dictators to take out? Yes, Mamoud Imanutjob in Iran. He's more of a figurehead than anything, really. I'd say Hugo Chavez would be most likely to go, since he did have surgery for cancer recently. There's also Castro in Cuba, but he's passed on power to his brother.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 19, 2011 14:17:03 GMT -5
Don't forget Gaddafi. Only 13 days left, any more crazy dictators to take out? Yes, Mamoud Imanutjob in Iran. He really doesn't have that much power. He's basically the spokesman of the Iranian government, which is run by clerics. The next regime to fall will be Syria.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 19, 2011 14:43:04 GMT -5
Don't forget Bashar al Assad in Syria.
I think people need to bare in mind the sheer power that a personality cult can give a single man. Not long ago I read a fascinating book about, of all things, Joseph Stalin. The author had grown up during the Stalin era, and he opened the book by describing how the Russian people at the time heard his name and saw his face every single day; every household had his picture in the family room watching over the house, every school used his name for their student prizes, all the most important buildings and projects were all named after him. The author summed it up well by saying "To think how much he meant to us!" And in this same book he described in frightening detail the brutality and repressiveness of Stalin's regime and the sheer terror people felt. Yet at the same time they had been so inundated with the man that the very idea of life without him was unthinkable. Its hard for people here in the USA to grasp.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Dec 19, 2011 15:34:16 GMT -5
I'm not one for conspiracy theories(In fact I pretty much hate them) but I've heard that kim jom has probably been dead for like two years, and they used prerecorded footage(made when he first got sick) to keep up an appearance of him alive while they groom his son to succeed him.
I guess those in charge think the son is ready(or they've run out of kim jong footage to use).
It's unlikely this is true but I can imagine north korea being very easily able to pull it off.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Dec 19, 2011 15:40:20 GMT -5
Don't forget Bashar al Assad in Syria. I think people need to bare in mind the sheer power that a personality cult can give a single man. Not long ago I read a fascinating book about, of all things, Joseph Stalin. The author had grown up during the Stalin era, and he opened the book by describing how the Russian people at the time heard his name and saw his face every single day; every household had his picture in the family room watching over the house, every school used his name for their student prizes, all the most important buildings and projects were all named after him. The author summed it up well by saying "To think how much he meant to us!" And in this same book he described in frightening detail the brutality and repressiveness of Stalin's regime and the sheer terror people felt. Yet at the same time they had been so inundated with the man that the very idea of life without him was unthinkable. Its hard for people here in the USA to grasp. This is, from what I've seen and read, VERY much the situation in N.Korea. Even those who hate the way their lives are because of the Kim's system cannot fathom life without the Kims, because the propaganda machine has caused the Kims to become so integral in every aspect of a private N. Korean citizen's day to day life. It's really sad.
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