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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 29, 2011 12:59:58 GMT -5
What you mean is creative had nothing for him and have constantly re-hashed his gimmick in a desperate bid to find somewhere to put him. The fact that he's considered a "great" IC champion yet is defending the belt against Booker T says all. What's wrong with Cody Rhodes defending the belt against Booker T? The fact that the best feud they have for him is a semi-retired comentator?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 29, 2011 13:07:19 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cody Rhodes defending the belt against Booker T? The fact that the best feud they have for him is a semi-retired comentator? But Booker is still more over than any midcarder on Smackdown and can still put on a decent match, so I see no problem with it. Who else would make for a better feud with Cody right now? Yoshi Tatsu, or maybe one of the Usos?
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 29, 2011 13:10:25 GMT -5
The fact that the best feud they have for him is a semi-retired comentator? But Booker is still more over than any midcarder on Smackdown and can still put on a decent match, so I see no problem with it. Who else would make for a better feud with Cody right now? Yoshi Tatsu, or maybe one of the Usos? But what happens when Booker goes back behind the desk? We're back to square one. I mean I don't have a problem with it but I can see why others would.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 29, 2011 13:14:38 GMT -5
But Booker is still more over than any midcarder on Smackdown and can still put on a decent match, so I see no problem with it. Who else would make for a better feud with Cody right now? Yoshi Tatsu, or maybe one of the Usos? But what happens when Booker goes back behind the desk? We're back to square one. Cody Rhodes gets a bit more credibility, because he just knocked off a future hall of famer. It's not like Cody is feuding with Jerry Lawler. Booker has shown that he can still go in the ring, so when Rhodes shows that he can beat him it actually means something. It's Rhodes beating a 6 time world champion and not just some random commentator.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 29, 2011 13:26:47 GMT -5
But what happens when Booker goes back behind the desk? We're back to square one. Cody Rhodes gets a bit more credibility, because he just knocked off a future hall of famer. It's not like Cody is feuding with Jerry Lawler. Booker has shown that he can still go in the ring, so when Rhodes shows that he can beat him it actually means something. It's Rhodes beating a 6 time world champion and not just some random commentator. But then what? There's still the same bunch of no hope midcarders to challenge him.
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
✬ Believe In The Fight ✬
Posts: 24,018
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Dec 29, 2011 13:48:30 GMT -5
I don't "hate" the guy, and I don't "Love" him either.
I'm glad he's where he is because of hard work and not because of politics, nepotism, or whatever else is considered a shortcut.
I kinda shrug at the character because when he was doing it the first time it didn't click with me, nor did it with much of the audience. I could be mean and say he forced it down all of our throats until people "got it" or "Liked it". But what he's done has got him a fanbase, which means he's succeeded where even WWE had failed for him. That'll reward him in the long run.
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Post by sludgehammer on Dec 29, 2011 14:01:03 GMT -5
I was behind the guys years ago. When he first debuted the gimmick on ECW. I remember going to RAW in 2010 and being one of three people chanting for the guy. Literally the rest of the people around us were annoyed that we were behind this guy.
I'll agree he needs more depth to his character; it's still a one-note joke after years of this gimmick
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,617
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Post by unc40 on Dec 29, 2011 14:48:43 GMT -5
I don't hate Ryder and am happy that he won the U.S. Title but I really don't see what is so special about him. By this time next year I don't think you will see much of him.
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The Punisher
Unicron
"They don't fear the law. They fear me..."
Posts: 3,082
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Post by The Punisher on Dec 29, 2011 15:58:07 GMT -5
WWE Exec #1: Look, people are cheering for Ryder even though we've buried him on Superstars!
WWE Exec #2: My God! You mean the guy we couldn't think of anything other than a goof gimmick for now actually has fans?
*Picks up phone*
WWE Exec #1: Laurinitis? Put that damned Blackberry down and find out how many followers Zack Ryder has on Twitter. What? I don't give a monkey's ball for Brodus Clay! I want to know about Ryder!
WWE Exec #2: Y'know, if John gets injured, or heaven forfend, has to turn heel, Ryder could be the merchandising shill we've been looking for.
WWE Exec #1: You might be right, we haven't got anyone else lined up for a major merchandising push this year, and John will be less popular around WrestleMania...
*phone rings*
WWE Exec #1: Laurinitis? For God's sake, stop harping on about the Bella Twins. How many followers? My God!
*hangs up*
WWE Exec #1: Get me Zack Ryder!
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Post by linecookguy on Dec 29, 2011 19:30:05 GMT -5
1) Isn't his gimmick based off of a Jersey Shore type person? Am I the only one who thinks this is the worst show on TV? Why would I want to see a play off of it while watching WWE? Am I wrong for thinking this?
2) Now people have stated in the thread that he has a great move set, I haven't seen him go past 7 minutes in a match and all I have seen is his 5 moves of doom
3) I don't think the rough ryder is a justifiable finisher
4) He is More annoying than Cena
5) I don't see him as a threat to anyone in the locker room. I think even Santino can out wrestle him.
6) He has been shoved down our throats. In the past 4 months his stock has risen so far that he even took the title off Ziggler. (Now I know people say Ziggler might win the Rumble and thats why they took it off him), but was Ryder the guy that deserved the title? Now me as a fan, it takes me while to really embrace a wrestler. I love watching them as new guys slowly work their way up the card into a top stop, watching their character build along the way. Cody Rhodes is a perfect example of this. Chris Benoit in WCW was perfect example of this. Kurt Angle was a perfect example. Eddie from WCW to WWE was wonderful example. I feel Ryder although I know he is passionate about wrestling and a fan of the sport. I don't have that back story with him. I watched him as an edge head at one point and then boom he showed up on ECW with this Long Island Gimmick, and now he is US champ because he whored himself out on the internet. Call me an Asshole for it, but it's the truth
7) He can't cut a promo outside of saying WWWYKI and his other three quips. I know they probably haven't given him the time to do it or the reason too, but until then he has been getting over by just saying WWWYKI He is like Road Dogg. Mick Foley could say all kinds of goofy shit but when it came down to it. You know he could a promo of Jake the Snake proportions. Kurt Angle had his goofy moments I never doubted anything he said because I know he could run circles around a lot of guys in the ring.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 29, 2011 19:39:30 GMT -5
1) Isn't his gimmick based off of a Jersey Shore type person? Am I the only one who thinks this is the worst show on TV? Why would I want to see a play off of it while watching WWE? Am I wrong for thinking this? 2) Now people have stated in the thread that he has a great move set, I haven't seen him go past 7 minutes in a match and all I have seen is his 5 moves of doom 3) I don't think the rough ryder is a justifiable finisher 4) He is More annoying than Cena 5) I don't see him as a threat to anyone in the locker room. I think even Santino can out wrestle him. 6) He has been shoved down our throats. In the past 4 months his stock has risen so far that he even took the title off Ziggler. (Now I know people say Ziggler might win the Rumble and thats why they took it off him), but was Ryder the guy that deserved the title? Now me as a fan, it takes me while to really embrace a wrestler. I love watching them as new guys slowly work their way up the card into a top stop, watching their character build along the way. Cody Rhodes is a perfect example of this. Chris Benoit in WCW was perfect example of this. Kurt Angle was a perfect example. Eddie from WCW to WWE was wonderful example. I feel Ryder although I know he is passionate about wrestling and a fan of the sport. I don't have that back story with him. I watched him as an edge head at one point and then boom he showed up on ECW with this Long Island Gimmick, and now he is US champ because he whored himself out on the internet. Call me an Asshole for it, but it's the truth 7) He can't cut a promo outside of saying WWWYKI and his other three quips. I know they probably haven't given him the time to do it or the reason too, but until then he has been getting over by just saying WWWYKI He is like Road Dogg. Mick Foley could say all kinds of goofy s*** but when it came down to it. You know he could a promo of Jake the Snake proportions. Kurt Angle had his goofy moments I never doubted anything he said because I know he could run circles around a lot of guys in the ring. Um I don't really have a problem with anybody disliking Ryder, because really everybody has their own preferences, but I'm going to disagree with you there a bit. 1)His gimmick debuted before Jersey Shore did, and he is a parody of Jersey Shore a bit, so...well, I'd say it makes sense for people to like him even if they dislike Shore. I hate Jersey Shore and I love Ryder. You are far from the only one who hates Jersey Shore, but remember that it is a very popular tv show. 2)As far as the WWE style goes, I think he's fine personally. 3)That's a matter of opinion. I preferred the Zack Attack, but I don't mind the Rough Ryder. I like how it can come out of nowhere. 4) Well that's...very opinion based. I personally love the dude. 5) That's...another opinion based thing. I see him as the underdog who compensates for being overall weak with tons of HEART. I can see why that would bother people, but that's what makes him my favorite wrestler. 6)He wasn't shoved down our throats. We opened our mouths and screamed "WE WANT RYDER!" for a long time. And...I think his push was perfect, really. It freed Ziggler up for a better belt(Ziggler didn't even go after his rematch clause against Ryder) and gave Ryder a great feud to start his career. 7)Personally I think that the fact he managed to get himself over by saying WOO WOO WOO without even having a mic is impressive other than a problem. He hasn't really been given the chance to cut a promo by himself yet, but even so I'd agree that he isn't the best. So far he never had the chance to cut any promos, so he's going to take a while to improve there. But I don't think he's bad or anything on the mic, he just needs some time to improve. And he's over enough that he earned the chance to improve a bit. No offense meant bro, you are free to hate whoever you want, I just don't really agree with the reasons you cited.
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Post by linecookguy on Dec 29, 2011 19:46:31 GMT -5
Zack Ryder is the WWE's Ron Paul
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 29, 2011 19:50:28 GMT -5
1) Isn't his gimmick based off of a Jersey Shore type person? Am I the only one who thinks this is the worst show on TV? Why would I want to see a play off of it while watching WWE? Am I wrong for thinking this? 2) Now people have stated in the thread that he has a great move set, I haven't seen him go past 7 minutes in a match and all I have seen is his 5 moves of doom 3) I don't think the rough ryder is a justifiable finisher 4) He is More annoying than Cena 5) I don't see him as a threat to anyone in the locker room. I think even Santino can out wrestle him. 6) He has been shoved down our throats. In the past 4 months his stock has risen so far that he even took the title off Ziggler. (Now I know people say Ziggler might win the Rumble and thats why they took it off him), but was Ryder the guy that deserved the title? Now me as a fan, it takes me while to really embrace a wrestler. I love watching them as new guys slowly work their way up the card into a top stop, watching their character build along the way. Cody Rhodes is a perfect example of this. Chris Benoit in WCW was perfect example of this. Kurt Angle was a perfect example. Eddie from WCW to WWE was wonderful example. I feel Ryder although I know he is passionate about wrestling and a fan of the sport. I don't have that back story with him. I watched him as an edge head at one point and then boom he showed up on ECW with this Long Island Gimmick, and now he is US champ because he whored himself out on the internet. Call me an Asshole for it, but it's the truth 7) He can't cut a promo outside of saying WWWYKI and his other three quips. I know they probably haven't given him the time to do it or the reason too, but until then he has been getting over by just saying WWWYKI He is like Road Dogg. Mick Foley could say all kinds of goofy s*** but when it came down to it. You know he could a promo of Jake the Snake proportions. Kurt Angle had his goofy moments I never doubted anything he said because I know he could run circles around a lot of guys in the ring. Zack debuted that character before the Jersey Shore went on the air, like, 6 or so months. It's bad, sometimes wrestlers or people in wrestling know when a big boom is happening and get in before it starts getting popular. That's what happened in 2006 with Paul Heyman and Kevin Thorn, and Paul was like, we need this Vampire gimmick, it's starting to get over, and Vince wanted to have Thorn slick his hair back like Dracula. Zack's whole character started well before that, the whole Woo Woo Woo You Know it deal started on the Dirt Sheet when he was still with Curt Hawkins, and after he was drafted to ECW, he cut his hair and added a whole new character to the goofy stuff he was doing on Colt Cabana's show and Miz & Morrison's show. It looked as if they were gonna have Curt be the straight man. Curt though was shipped off to FCW. I can never dislike the character. I could think maybe it could use some more tweaking, but I'm sure Zack would think that, he's just in the phase right now of getting over. He's someone who people actually saw earn his spot, like, you usually hear about people earning it, but this time here, you could see things slowly start to build up for Zack. And not only that, but he also has character flaws. He's kinda dorky, he tries to hard with women, so his character isn't just happy baby face guy. As for being more annoying then Cena, Cena is thought of as fake. With Ryder, like, the fact that he got a foam hand probably blew his mind. He got this tape recorder thing from Home Alone 2, he bought a whole set of action figures off ebay while in developmental, Zack's the real deal. He lied to Curt Hawkins about the action figures he and Zack wanted being sold out, but actually had his Dad go down there and buy them all. This guy is legit. Also, Road Dogg was awesome, and when he came out for the Slammys, people still sung along with him like, he hadn't been on WWE tv for 10 years. It's memorable.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 29, 2011 19:52:48 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much that everyone's turned on Ryder, as when his popularity grew, the haters that were already there decided that they needed to become more vocal about it. And on the Morrison hate, I think a lot of people ended up taking that whole Trish Stratus cold shoulder thing personally. Can I rant for a wee bit on the Morrison one? I think a lot of the discontent involving Morrison was how booking so thoroughly gravitated away from what made him a solid performer in the first place. Whether it was with Melina and Mercury, with just Melina, or with Miz, Morrison always needed people who were competent as talkers by his side to add depth to promos. When they weren't directing him and he wasn't limited to bad porn noises or non-sequiturs, his inability to speak bled through anything. Remember what the major catalyst was to his initial depush in 2006? That horrid press conference with him and Melina, after she turned on Mick Foley, where he totally bungled every single line he could deliver and made her look bad too. Fast forward five years, and he still can't talk worth a lick. So what does WWE do? Try to have him be Mr. Funny Man with witty promos? Being witty requires a sharp tongue, not being wrestling's very own George McFly, instead of letting him be Joe Cool and stay silent. He also built a huge reputation on being both athletic and super-talented in the ring. Incredibly good at selling, able to mat wrestle with anybody or play the high flyer with anybody (behold his matches with Punk and Hardy to prove either), but they got seriously carried away with the parkour and he became a spot monkey, doing zany stunts for no particular reason and they gravitated from his phenomenal ring skills. At the end of the day, he became a guy who jumped around too much and talked too much. And with Ryder, WWE needs to be careful with how they book him--maybe he's not quite a main eventer, but does he totally need to be? Go with what works and play on what he's got: fan sympathy, memetic power, and decent in-ring skills. A solid mid-carder all the way, and definitely not the dead-end jobber he once was. And there are those of us who liked the guy, thought he had potential ... and decided that he didn't have the right stuff because he never evolved and learned the skills necessary (on the mic in this case) necessary to deserve a major push. So now I'm in the camp who doesn't like him because I don't believe in him any more. To me,, it's a case of lack of effort on his part. Someone who's horrible on the mic might not be able to become great on the mic, but he certainly can improve -- take acting lessons, beg Dusty Rhodes or Edge or Jericho for help, do whatever it takes, but at least go from a zero to a 1 in the course of several years, not from a zero to a minus-2. I am in the I-don't-like-Morrison camp, but I once was in the I-have-high-hopes-for-this guy camp. I don't "hate" him because he became more popular with the IWC (or the people on wrestling forums or whatever you want to call it), but because I think he has regressed and failed to live up to what he could have been.
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Post by linecookguy on Dec 29, 2011 19:57:21 GMT -5
Can I rant for a wee bit on the Morrison one? I think a lot of the discontent involving Morrison was how booking so thoroughly gravitated away from what made him a solid performer in the first place. Whether it was with Melina and Mercury, with just Melina, or with Miz, Morrison always needed people who were competent as talkers by his side to add depth to promos. When they weren't directing him and he wasn't limited to bad porn noises or non-sequiturs, his inability to speak bled through anything. Remember what the major catalyst was to his initial depush in 2006? That horrid press conference with him and Melina, after she turned on Mick Foley, where he totally bungled every single line he could deliver and made her look bad too. Fast forward five years, and he still can't talk worth a lick. So what does WWE do? Try to have him be Mr. Funny Man with witty promos? Being witty requires a sharp tongue, not being wrestling's very own George McFly, instead of letting him be Joe Cool and stay silent. He also built a huge reputation on being both athletic and super-talented in the ring. Incredibly good at selling, able to mat wrestle with anybody or play the high flyer with anybody (behold his matches with Punk and Hardy to prove either), but they got seriously carried away with the parkour and he became a spot monkey, doing zany stunts for no particular reason and they gravitated from his phenomenal ring skills. At the end of the day, he became a guy who jumped around too much and talked too much. And with Ryder, WWE needs to be careful with how they book him--maybe he's not quite a main eventer, but does he totally need to be? Go with what works and play on what he's got: fan sympathy, memetic power, and decent in-ring skills. A solid mid-carder all the way, and definitely not the dead-end jobber he once was. And there are those of us who liked the guy, thought he had potential ... and decided that he didn't have the right stuff because he never evolved and learned the skills necessary (on the mic in this case) necessary to deserve a major push. So now I'm in the camp who doesn't like him because I don't believe in him any more. To me,, it's a case of lack of effort on his part. Someone who's horrible on the mic might not be able to become great on the mic, but he certainly can improve -- take acting lessons, beg Dusty Rhodes or Edge or Jericho for help, do whatever it takes, but at least go from a zero to a 1 in the course of several years, not from a zero to a minus-2. I am in the I-don't-like-Morrison camp, but I once was in the I-have-high-hopes-for-this guy camp. I don't "hate" him because he became more popular with the IWC (or the people on wrestling forums or whatever you want to call it), but because I think he has regressed and failed to live up to what he could have been. Morrison I had high hopes as the next HBK one day.. Then I started noticing his wrestling skill decline. it looked as if he was phoning it in all the time. I know it had been a bad year for him, but a lot of people would love to be where he was at and he didn't give a shit. In that carlito type of way. I lost a lot of respect for him and am glad he is gone.
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Post by lemonyellowson on Dec 29, 2011 20:06:57 GMT -5
guy worked his ass off, deserves every good thing he is getting at the minute.
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Post by linecookguy on Dec 29, 2011 20:13:05 GMT -5
guy worked his ass off, deserves every good thing he is getting at the minute. I disagree, CM Punk worked his ass off. D Bry worked his ass off. Chris Jericho worked his ass off. All without using Youtube or Twitter to get over. What Ryder did was no better than Tila Tequila or a Justin Beiber, whoring himself out on the net to get notice. Se7ven Brad Pitt: "Your just a T-Shirt, a Movie of the Week" www.hotflick.net/flicks/1995_Se7en/995SVN_Kevin_Spacey_009.jpg [/img]
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 29, 2011 20:30:42 GMT -5
Is it really nessesary to keep stating your opinion? You aren't gonna convert anyone.
Oh and "being shoved down people's throats" is a wrestler being constantly pushed to little or no reaction. Michelle McCool got shoved down people's throats. Ryder got over and was pushed accordingly. It's not an overpush just because you don't like the guy.
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Post by eJm on Dec 29, 2011 20:39:43 GMT -5
I can totally buy people not liking Zack's character. That's fine, their preference as long as they don't insult me for diagreeing and liking him.
The 'forced down his throat' stuff is dumb. Wrestling is about what the crowd wants, in a way it's like a debate. Zack gave a case of why he should be on TV. People agreed with it and demanded he get on TV. Management listened to them and him and put him on TV. The people who weren't convinced back then got convinced later on and thus, he got more over. Management decides to push him more and take his push to the logical conclusion (overcoming his rival/s to get the title).
I can't say a dude got shoved down people's throats when people in Madison Square Garden, one of the crowds the WWE uses to test if stuff works, chants his name when The Rock is in the ring. That is natural.
Edit: Also, the dude who said he was 'Scotty 2 Hotty' over? You do realize that, every time Scotty 2 Hotty's been brought back to the WWE, he's super over, right?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 29, 2011 20:41:00 GMT -5
guy worked his ass off, deserves every good thing he is getting at the minute. I disagree, CM Punk worked his ass off. D Bry worked his ass off. Chris Jericho worked his ass off. All without using Youtube or Twitter to get over. What Ryder did was no better than Tila Tequila or a Justin Beiber, whoring himself out on the net to get notice. Just because Ryder didn't spend 10 years in the indys doesn't mean he hasn't worked hard to get where he's at. And he managed to get massively over. So to say you don't like him's one thing, but to say he doesn't deserve the push he's getting is ridiculous.
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