Rave
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Post by Rave on Jul 6, 2012 0:25:44 GMT -5
Dick move on King's part, but dumbass move on ROH's. Who puts a title on a guy the very day his contract expires?
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 6, 2012 0:27:14 GMT -5
Okay reading through various snippets it sounds like ROH knew about King having a match set up with TNA in advance and gave Kenny permission to have a match. Sounds like they didn't think/know TNA wanted him to win and compete on the ppv and when they found out, ROH tried to force Kenny to skip his TNA booking and Kenny refused to do that. I get the impression ROH didn't want Kenny to compete for another company at all until their verbal agreement was up, though they may have been willing to bend it for a dark match. The fact that he competed and won on Impact and will now be competing at their PPV is just the icing on the cake. basically, it's a mixture of things. ROH said he could negotiate with other companies but needed their permission to compete. He got permission to compete for TNA. Whether ROH knew exactly what Kenny was offered or not might be up for debate. The news sites are saying that the wrestlers for ROH don't begrudge Kenny King one bit because he did what was best for himself and his family they just feel he put the company in a bad spot. At the same time, sounds like there are those who feel ROH should have had a better arrangement with King.
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Post by Error on Jul 6, 2012 0:28:08 GMT -5
Dick move on King's part, but dumbass move on ROH's. Who puts a title on a guy the very day his contract expires? WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 6, 2012 0:29:19 GMT -5
Dick move on King's part, but dumbass move on ROH's. Who puts a title on a guy the very day his contract expires? WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals. Wasn't that what the whole big rigamarole with Taz ended up being? Or Mike Awesome? One or the other, I can't remember.
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy on Jul 6, 2012 0:29:31 GMT -5
Dick move on King's part, but dumbass move on ROH's. Who puts a title on a guy the very day his contract expires? WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals. Can we get examples? I know of Jarrett's WWE problem but what else?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2012 0:31:47 GMT -5
WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals. Wasn't that what the whole big rigamarole with Taz ended up being? Or Mike Awesome? One or the other, I can't remember. Awesome. Because Taz got the WWE to send him to an ECW show to win the title off of him. Still one of my favorite surreal moments.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 6, 2012 0:32:08 GMT -5
WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals. Wasn't that what the whole big rigamarole with Taz ended up being? Or Mike Awesome? One or the other, I can't remember. Awesome. He jumped to WCW as ECW Champion without notice and was going to throw the belt in the trash until they got wind of it. Even then, and not to justify Awesome's move, Awesome was not being paid by Heyman the money he was owed. I don't get the impression that was going on with King and ROH. King agreed to a deal, and then broke it.
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Post by Error on Jul 6, 2012 0:35:27 GMT -5
WWE. TNA. WCW. Hell ECW put it them on people who didn't have deals. Can we get examples? I know of Jarrett's WWE problem but what else? Punk got the belt at MITB and his contract was done and they only had a verbal deal. You mentioned the Jarrett deal but Medusa as well. In ECW, Awesome and Storm didn't have contracts. Storm had a deal that as long as he got paid he wouldn't leave but no real contract. Awesome had nothing from what I remember. Same for the Dudleys at the end. WCW had Meng with the Hardcore title. TNA I'll actually take back as I cannot think of anyone that got a title and left, just got huge pushes and left (Raven, XPac, Shannon Moore, Jeff Hardy).
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 6, 2012 0:36:04 GMT -5
-WON
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 6, 2012 0:38:12 GMT -5
Can we get examples? I know of Jarrett's WWE problem but what else? Punk got the belt at MITB and his contract was done and they only had a verbal deal. You mentioned the Jarrett deal but Medusa as well. In ECW, Awesome and Storm didn't have contracts. Storm had a deal that as long as he got paid he wouldn't leave but no real contract. Awesome had nothing from what I remember. Same for the Dudleys at the end. WCW had Meng with the Hardcore title. TNA I'll actually take back as I cannot think of anyone that got a title and left, just got huge pushes and left (Raven, XPac, Shannon Moore, Jeff Hardy). What is the Meng/Hardcore Title story? I don't remember this.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 6, 2012 0:39:36 GMT -5
Punk got the belt at MITB and his contract was done and they only had a verbal deal. You mentioned the Jarrett deal but Medusa as well. In ECW, Awesome and Storm didn't have contracts. Storm had a deal that as long as he got paid he wouldn't leave but no real contract. Awesome had nothing from what I remember. Same for the Dudleys at the end. WCW had Meng with the Hardcore title. TNA I'll actually take back as I cannot think of anyone that got a title and left, just got huge pushes and left (Raven, XPac, Shannon Moore, Jeff Hardy). What is the Meng/Hardcore Title story? I don't remember this. Meng was WCW Hardcore Champion and his contract expired (a fact that seemed to allude WCW officials) so he showed up as an entrant in the 2001 Royal Rumble for the WWF.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 6, 2012 0:39:39 GMT -5
Wasn't that what the whole big rigamarole with Taz ended up being? Or Mike Awesome? One or the other, I can't remember. Awesome. He jumped to WCW as ECW Champion without notice and was going to throw the belt in the trash until they got wind of it. Even then, and not to justify Awesome's move, Awesome was not being paid by Heyman the money he was owed. I don't get the impression that was going on with King and ROH. King agreed to a deal, and then broke it. Actually Awesome and others involved said that he was never going to through the ECW belt in the trash. Awesome hadn't gotten paid in awhile and was on a paid per appearance deal. He was also miserable because he made a good living in Japan and Paul had convinced him to take less bookings in Japan because he was gonna make him a big star, but he needed money. The big things that got ECW pissed were that Awesome was not supposed to cut a promo during his debut (which he did no matter how bad it was) and the WCW announcers were supposed to hype up the next ECW ppv (which they didn't do). I'm trying not to be too judgemental either way. ROH hasn't been the best in terms of business recently and are supposedly not in the greatest financial shape while TNA does offer a steadier paycheck and other opportunities (Mexico, Japan, Ring Ka King) for a comfortable lifestyle. So who knows? I tend to think ROH didn't handle parts of this correctly by not having a more concrete deal in place earlier, but if Kenny did have an agreement not to wrestle anywhere else that wasn't right.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 6, 2012 0:42:29 GMT -5
I'm trying not to be too judgemental either way. ROH hasn't been the best in terms of business recently and are supposedly not in the greatest financial shape while TNA does offer a steadier paycheck and other opportunities (Mexico, Japan, Ring Ka King) for a comfortable lifestyle. So who knows? I tend to think ROH didn't handle parts of this correctly by not having a more concrete deal in place earlier, but if Kenny did have an agreement not to wrestle anywhere else that wasn't right. That's pretty much how I feel. I don't blame Kenny for one minute wanting to go to TNA over ROH, and I say that as an ROH enthusiast. I do think ROH is on the downturn while TNA is a sure thing. I just think he should have honored his agreement with ROH, a company that helped him get to the level where he can compete on Impact with much fanfare.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 6, 2012 0:43:39 GMT -5
Can we get examples? I know of Jarrett's WWE problem but what else? Punk got the belt at MITB and his contract was done and they only had a verbal deal. You mentioned the Jarrett deal but Medusa as well. In ECW, Awesome and Storm didn't have contracts. Storm had a deal that as long as he got paid he wouldn't leave but no real contract. Awesome had nothing from what I remember. Same for the Dudleys at the end. WCW had Meng with the Hardcore title. TNA I'll actually take back as I cannot think of anyone that got a title and left, just got huge pushes and left (Raven, XPac, Shannon Moore, Jeff Hardy). after Awesome left ECW Paul made everybody sign contracts (this is from Lance's shoot), Lance didn't want to sign a contract and Paul said he needed something signed. So Lance did a 30 day contract, which allowed him to negotiate with WCW.
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Post by Error on Jul 6, 2012 0:44:16 GMT -5
What is the Meng/Hardcore Title story? I don't remember this. Meng was WCW Hardcore Champion and his contract expired (a fact that seemed to allude WCW officials) so he showed up as an entrant in the 2001 Royal Rumble for the WWF. Yeah, won it on a Monday (cannot remember if it was on Nitro or Thunder), wrestled Barbarian on an indy show on a Saturday and gave him the title (which WCW mentioned the following week and then did nothing with him or the title) then worked the Rumble on Sunday if I remember right.
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Paco
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Post by Paco on Jul 6, 2012 1:15:47 GMT -5
This is like some WWF-WCW s***...just on a WAY smaller scale.
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Jul 6, 2012 1:23:44 GMT -5
To play devil's advocate, it is interesting how when Sinclair took over ROH and started shooting TV that they would only use talent that signed their contracts and dropped everyone else. Now they put their tag titles on a guy who's deal expired and only had a verbal deal (which isn't binding in court) and get screwed over by him, the same exact scenario they were deathly afraid of just 10-11 months ago.
Also here another example of a handshake deal. The Rock. Yes, the guy who mainevented this past Wrestlemania and has drawn consecutive one-million buyrate Mania's is working off a handshake deal.
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy on Jul 6, 2012 1:30:04 GMT -5
Also here another example of a handshake deal. The Rock. Yes, the guy who mainevented this past Wrestlemania and has drawn consecutive one-million buyrate Mania's is working off a handshake deal. Rick Rude was as well. Mick Foley said in his first book that he was under a handshake deal to the WWE
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boolz
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Post by boolz on Jul 6, 2012 1:30:44 GMT -5
I still don't see what 'deal' they had. ROH says King made a verbal agreement that ROH wanted signed. He didn't want to sign it. Where's the deal?
Maybe it's because I don't follow ROH or TNA much at all, but I see it very differently. It sounds like you have a man who needs to work to feed his kids. He doesn't have a work agreement with ROH, but he has a title, so if he really pursues finding better work with TNA he's being a dick?
I mean if TNA told him hey we have this tournament or XCup or whatever they're doing and thought he'd be great in it, but to get him in it they need him to wrestle tonight what's he supposed to do? Say no and maybe slam that door shut? Say yes and be a dick? All because he doesn't have a contract but ROH stuck him with a belt.
And to make it worse ROH comes out all butt hurt and proclaiming they'll never do business with King again. So now a guy with an ROH belt that wants to feed his family isn't welcome back to drop the belt.
I'm really just not seeing it. Maybe if he didn't have 1/2 the tag titles it wouldn't be much of a deal. Maybe if he just came out, called ROH a waste of time and dumped the belt in the garbage I'd see the big deal. Right now though it just looks like a wrestler looking for his next booking to me.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Jul 6, 2012 1:37:57 GMT -5
I still don't see what 'deal' they had. ROH says King made a verbal agreement that ROH wanted signed. He didn't want to sign it. Where's the deal? Maybe it's because I don't follow ROH or TNA much at all, but I see it very differently. It sounds like you have a man who needs to work to feed his kids. He doesn't have a work agreement with ROH, but he has a title, so if he really pursues finding better work with TNA he's being a dick? I mean if TNA told him hey we have this tournament or XCup or whatever they're doing and thought he'd be great in it, but to get him in it they need him to wrestle tonight what's he supposed to do? Say no and maybe slam that door shut? Say yes and be a dick? All because he doesn't have a contract but ROH stuck him with a belt. And to make it worse ROH comes out all butt hurt and proclaiming they'll never do business with King again. So now a guy with an ROH belt that wants to feed his family isn't welcome back to drop the belt. I'm really just not seeing it. Maybe if he didn't have 1/2 the tag titles it wouldn't be much of a deal. Maybe if he just came out, called ROH a waste of time and dumped the belt in the garbage I'd see the big deal. Right now though it just looks like a wrestler looking for his next booking to me. you're making it sound as though King was working ROH shows for free or something.
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