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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 26, 2012 16:40:17 GMT -5
Ryder is a one note wrestler that wasn't going anywhere anyways. I disagree. He's honestly a better wrestler than that gimmick deserves, and his matches with Christian on ECW alone testify to that. If he could figure out a way to tune the gimmick to make it slightly more serious, it could really work.
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Post by KobashiChop on Jul 26, 2012 16:45:19 GMT -5
He is absolutely right and he has my sympathy for this. He was made to look like a complete bitch in that storyline. Completely crushed him after he had one of the great midcard title wins of the modern era. Yeah, but almost every main eventer in the WWE has had to look like a complete bitch in a storyline at some point in their career. I agree that Ryder hasn't had a ton of chances lately to get over, but his gimmick only can go so long before people move on. And how long is that exactly? Because he was doing fine, and had crowds chanting "WE WANT RYDER" on a regular basis. People say his gimmick has a shelf life, yet he remained over the whole time. Then he gets put in a wheelchair, thrown off the stage, his love interest tells him she wants to be friends, and then kicks him in the balls at WrestleMania. The WWE killed him, and then pissed on the corpse.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Jul 26, 2012 17:49:07 GMT -5
His career was halted by the fact that he has the delivery of a 4th grader in a school play. The big appeal of the guy was that his web show had a following and he never got a chance, but he wasn't ready when they did give him a chance. There have been comedy characters who have sounded far more natural giving promos than Ryder, there have been people with promos composed largely of catchphrases that did it a lot better, and while he's not bad in the ring, he's not exciting enough to make up for the fact that he's just not there yet. This. I like Ryder and all, but some of Ryback's jobbers sounded 10x more comfortable on the mic than Ryder. No disrespect meant, but he should really take some acting classes or hire a coach.
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Ryanar
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,429
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Post by Ryanar on Jul 26, 2012 18:00:13 GMT -5
I hate this idea that his gimmick is what killed his momentum, HOW? The main reason he got over was because of his Gimmick laced internet show. He didn't get over in the ring, he got over doing things like promos and segments on his show. You can say he may have had issues in front of thousands of people but really the fact that he delivered on ZTLIS proves that he CAN deliver. People tend to forget that his delivery is what makes him Zack Ryder and not Harley Race or Ric Flair. That terrible storyline and the stupid booking is what killed his momentum, there is nothing more to be said. Not only did they book Ryder like a moron, but they made Ziggler look like a chump by having Kane destroy Ryder in 2 minute intervals every week. The same guy that beat Ziggler numerous times gets owned by Kane in 2 minutes each week for about two 1/2 months. Ryder could have been a standard bearer for a midcard revival. They could have had somebody like Hunico start a feud over the title with him. So many possibilities with Ryder at that point in his career all thrown away in that meaningless feud.
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Post by Throwback on Jul 26, 2012 18:05:50 GMT -5
every time he complains, I can picture someone in the back telling him to do it so he can remain an under dog and still get sympathy. His character is an under dog. Have him focused to much and it kills that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 18:37:16 GMT -5
Ryder is a one note wrestler that wasn't going anywhere anyways. I disagree. He's honestly a better wrestler than that gimmick deserves, and his matches with Christian on ECW alone testify to that. If he could figure out a way to tune the gimmick to make it slightly more serious, it could really work. There's no way to make that gimmick serious without altering it drastically. It doesn't help that Ryder is garbage with a live mic. I stand by my analysis. He's a solid hand in the midcard, there's nothing wrong with that.
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Post by molson5 on Jul 26, 2012 18:39:29 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with having lower-midcard-type guys being somewhat over. That's actually a good thing. Any overness he's had has been based on his character, gimmick, and being an underdog/outsider, it's never been his wrestling ability or that he wins lots of matches. So if they can have a guy they don't like that much and don't want to push actually get reactions in lower card matches, that's a nice plus.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 26, 2012 18:43:51 GMT -5
The old "shoot comments that aren't supposed to be shoot comments". Not that he's wrong, his push was basically a rib on the fans. Yeah his acting sucked but that goes for 3 out of the 4 people in the angle. Let us not forget rapeface Cena. And his acting isn't any worse than AJ's and everyone loves AJ's. s***, Punk's was pretty bad. I disagree with that last part. AJ is definitely a better actor than Zack Ryder on the grounds that she does better facial expressions than he does. She just can't cut 10 minute promos but if Zack tried to do that too, he'd look even worse.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 26, 2012 18:50:44 GMT -5
I can't believe people are trying to say it was his acting that hurt/killed him in the Kane and Eve storyline. Uh, I'm pretty sure he coulda been Marlon f***ing Brando and the fans still would have stopped cheering for him after that because in the storyline he was a pussywhipped Kane punching bag.
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Post by joebob27 on Jul 26, 2012 18:56:47 GMT -5
The old "shoot comments that aren't supposed to be shoot comments". Not that he's wrong, his push was basically a rib on the fans. Yeah his acting sucked but that goes for 3 out of the 4 people in the angle. Let us not forget rapeface Cena. And his acting isn't any worse than AJ's and everyone loves AJ's. s***, Punk's was pretty bad. I disagree with that last part. AJ is definitely a better actor than Zack Ryder on the grounds that she does better facial expressions than he does. She just can't cut 10 minute promos but if Zack tried to do that too, he'd look even worse. AJ does horrible facials, her crazy facial is the same facial Kane used to do with the mask where she turns her face to the side like a dog. AJ actually is pretty horrible all around, maybe a good wrestler, but she doesn't wrestle. Everyone's just in love with her for some reason. She went from being a prop in DB's heel turn to being a huge focus of the show and there's really no good reason why.
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Post by joebob27 on Jul 26, 2012 18:58:33 GMT -5
I can't believe people are trying to say it was his acting that hurt/killed him in the Kane and Eve storyline. Uh, I'm pretty sure he coulda been Marlon f***ing Brando and the fans still would have stopped cheering for him after that because in the storyline he was a pussywhipped Kane punching bag. Yep, like I said before his push was basically a rib on the fans that liked him. They gave you the carrot and then beat you over the head with a log. He got treated like a bigger loser than Zach Gowen.
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 26, 2012 19:02:26 GMT -5
Yeah, but almost every main eventer in the WWE has had to look like a complete bitch in a storyline at some point in their career. I agree that Ryder hasn't had a ton of chances lately to get over, but his gimmick only can go so long before people move on. And how long is that exactly? Because he was doing fine, and had crowds chanting "WE WANT RYDER" on a regular basis. People say his gimmick has a shelf life, yet he remained over the whole time. Then he gets put in a wheelchair, thrown off the stage, his love interest tells him she wants to be friends, and then kicks him in the balls at WrestleMania. The WWE killed him, and then pissed on the corpse. I agree that his booking has been awful, but I just don't believe that Ryder couldn't have made it work if his mic and promo skills were good enough. Look at someone like Dolphin Ziggler. He was given a laughable gimmick, but he made it work by always being entertaining in the ring and on the mic. Yeah, Ryder was over when he was chasing the U.S.Title, but how much of that was for his character and how much was because he was trying by himself to get recognition?
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Post by Starshine on Jul 26, 2012 19:05:17 GMT -5
I blame his crutch walk acting. Not even Batista was that bad at selling a leg.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
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Post by The Line on Jul 26, 2012 19:14:42 GMT -5
eh, from what I saw(which was some YT clips and one Raw back in March), it was a combo of both. Sure, the push was not ideal, but Mr. Ryder did himself no favors with his wooden delivery. I think once his push started, Ryder was expecting to be allowed to basically act like he does on his web show, and got disappointed when it was clear that wasn't the case(plus, as others have said, he doesn't seem to be able to recite other people's words in front of a live audience with any sort of naturalness). Reminds me a lot "But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know" Sean O'Haire. Great in taped vignettes/etc, but sunk like a rock(not The Rock ) once he was in front of a live audience.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 19:21:50 GMT -5
If you folks really think it was Ryder's acting that stalled his push, then everyone involved in that angle should have been busted down to FCW by now. Particularly Eve. You remember that promo where Cena tore her apart verbally? I've never seen a worse attempt at conveying despair. But she got a GM Assistant role out of the ordeal. And let's not forget THIS: Not Cena's best moment. There's no way you could single out Ryder for bad acting when that whole storyline was absolute nonsense.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Jul 26, 2012 19:26:54 GMT -5
That totally was Cena's best moment.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jul 26, 2012 19:27:29 GMT -5
Wow so at first I was the guy hating on Ryder thinking he was lame and didn't get what everyone said about him. Then after receiving tv time I started enjoying him and loving his shitck. Now that I love him and his gimmick a lot of the Internet has turned against him while I scratch My head wondering why. A weird time being me lol.
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 26, 2012 19:37:38 GMT -5
Wow so at first I was the guy hating on Ryder thinking he was lame and didn't get what everyone said about him. Then after receiving tv time I started enjoying him and loving his s***ck. Now that I love him and his gimmick a lot of the Internet has turned against him while I scratch My head wondering why. A weird time being me lol. Lol, I don't even hate his gimmick. Ryder does a great job at getting the crowd to participate and he's good in the ring. I just think his acting and mic skills need work and that if being involved in a main-event angle with Cena and Kane (even though he did get his ass handed to him) is "killing his career" then something's a bit off.
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 26, 2012 20:00:35 GMT -5
I disagree with that last part. AJ is definitely a better actor than Zack Ryder on the grounds that she does better facial expressions than he does. She just can't cut 10 minute promos but if Zack tried to do that too, he'd look even worse. AJ does horrible facials, her crazy facial is the same facial Kane used to do with the mask where she turns her face to the side like a dog. AJ actually is pretty horrible all around, maybe a good wrestler, but she doesn't wrestle. Everyone's just in love with her for some reason. She went from being a prop in DB's heel turn to being a huge focus of the show and there's really no good reason why. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I completely disagree with you. AJ's facials are great. And she's amongst the best "actors" I've ever seen in pro wrestling, period. The reason she's been made into such a big focus of the show is because Vince McMahon is really into her work. I never got the AJ hype until she became this wacky, psycho character. But I'll admit that I've never been impressed with what little I've seen of her in-ring work.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 26, 2012 20:05:38 GMT -5
That totally was Cena's best moment. Seriously, Cena should look like that all the time.
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