J
Don Corleone
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Post by J on Aug 9, 2012 1:18:48 GMT -5
To be honest the tonal changes didn't really jar me. I think knowing that this was a Wilder movie going in I was kind of expecting the dark humor.
As has been said already in the thread, William Holden was absolutely brilliant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 9:12:23 GMT -5
Sefton was originally written for Charlton Heston but, as the role got darker, William Holden was considered. Wilder told Holden to see the play Stalag 17 was based on but he reportedly walked out after the first act. William Holden wanted Wilder to lighten the role a bit after reading the script but Wilder refused.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
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Post by bob on Aug 9, 2012 11:07:34 GMT -5
Just thought I'd point out that this our first discussion to make it to 3 pages.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 11:43:08 GMT -5
Just thought I'd point out that this our first discussion to make it to 3 pages. And I'm very happy that it has. Still waiting on the Line to post *cough*. Any thoughts on the opening monologue? Some have taken it to be a hold over from the play, which I believe was a bit more episodic in nature. I've noticed that a lot of people don't care for the monologue because it sets up expectations that Cookie's going to narrate the rest of the film or that it's point about realism lacking in war films (where are the films about frog men, for example) doesn't get addressed again.
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bob
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started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
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Post by bob on Aug 9, 2012 15:49:06 GMT -5
I liked the opening monologue as it explained the scenario of the movie perfectly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 0:40:40 GMT -5
I liked the opening monologue as it explained the scenario of the movie perfectly. Yeah, I enjoyed the tone of it as well.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Aug 10, 2012 2:13:31 GMT -5
Just thought I'd point out that this our first discussion to make it to 3 pages. And I'm very happy that it has. Still waiting on the Line to post *cough*. sorry 'bout that. When all's said and done, I'll have worked a VERRRY long week this week. I'll probably get to watching it tomorrow or Saturday(at the very latest)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 2:15:15 GMT -5
And I'm very happy that it has. Still waiting on the Line to post *cough*. sorry 'bout that. When all's said and done, I'll have worked a VERRRY long week this week. I'll probably get to watching it tomorrow or Saturday(at the very latest) No problem.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mizerable on Aug 10, 2012 2:46:14 GMT -5
Yeah, Billy Wilder tends to put humor in unexpected places. I think "The Lost Weekend" is the only film of his that I've seen that didn't have at least some humor. It wasn't intentional (and I do truly love the movie) but The Lost Weekend made me laugh my ass off. A lot of "lesson" movies do that for me though, and just seeing Milland at his absolute lowest just made me laugh for some reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 6:52:45 GMT -5
Yeah, Billy Wilder tends to put humor in unexpected places. I think "The Lost Weekend" is the only film of his that I've seen that didn't have at least some humor. It wasn't intentional (and I do truly love the movie) but The Lost Weekend made me laugh my ass off. A lot of "lesson" movies do that for me though, and just seeing Milland at his absolute lowest just made me laugh for some reason. I can see that. Gets a bit over the top at times and the ending is a bit of a cop out.
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Post by bitteroldman on Aug 11, 2012 15:14:22 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the concept of the anti-hero. Holden's character (Sgt. Septon) is one of the best examples of this; his actions throughout the movie showed that anything he did was for his own personal gain. Exposing the true informer was just to clear his own name and in the end when it was necessary to help the american prisoner accused of sabotage escape, Septon took the job simply because he saw profit form the task.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Aug 11, 2012 17:12:11 GMT -5
To be honest the tonal changes didn't really jar me. I think knowing that this was a Wilder movie going in I was kind of expecting the dark humor. As has been said already in the thread, William Holden was absolutely brilliant. I agree. Wilder was really great at blending comedy with heavy drama. The Apartment is probably his crowning example of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 20:14:12 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the concept of the anti-hero. Holden's character (Sgt. Septon) is one of the best examples of this; his actions throughout the movie showed that anything he did was for his own personal gain. Exposing the true informer was just to clear his own name and in the end when it was necessary to help the american prisoner accused of sabotage escape, Septon took the job simply because he saw profit form the task. Yeah, Sefton doesn't change. He was always a good American and did only what he thought he had to do in order to survive but he never became "one of the boys". When he leaves he tells the others that, if they ever run into each other in the U.S. to act like he doesn't know him or words to that effect. There's still that undercurrent of nihilism.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
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Post by bob on Aug 11, 2012 20:20:11 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the concept of the anti-hero. Holden's character (Sgt. Septon) is one of the best examples of this; his actions throughout the movie showed that anything he did was for his own personal gain. Exposing the true informer was just to clear his own name and in the end when it was necessary to help the american prisoner accused of sabotage escape, Septon took the job simply because he saw profit form the task. Yeah, Sefton doesn't change. He was always a good American and did only what he thought he had to do in order to survive but he never became "one of the boys". When he leaves he tells the others that, if they ever run into each other in the U.S. to act like he doesn't know him or words to that effect. There's still that undercurrent of nihilism. To be fair they did beat him up for thinking he was a traitor when he wasn't so I can see why he wouldn't want to be friends with any of them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 20:28:01 GMT -5
Yeah, Sefton doesn't change. He was always a good American and did only what he thought he had to do in order to survive but he never became "one of the boys". When he leaves he tells the others that, if they ever run into each other in the U.S. to act like he doesn't know him or words to that effect. There's still that undercurrent of nihilism. To be fair they did beat him up for thinking he was a traitor when he wasn't so I can see why he wouldn't want to be friends with any of them. That and it would betray his character. A lesser movie would have him reconcile with them or lighten him up at the end. Stalag 17 goes out of its way to say, nah, things didn't change just because you believe him now.
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J
Don Corleone
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Post by J on Aug 11, 2012 20:33:44 GMT -5
To be fair they did beat him up for thinking he was a traitor when he wasn't so I can see why he wouldn't want to be friends with any of them. That and it would betray his character. A lesser movie would have him reconcile with them or lighten him up at the end. Stalag 17 goes out of its way to say, nah, things didn't change just because you believe him now. That to me adds ro the realism, that was referenced in the opening narration. I think it was great not to cop out at the end, and have Sefton shrug off what happened to him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 23:35:58 GMT -5
I think there's also a psychological element that never quite gets addressed in that the Nazis had a spy in their barracks that fit exactly in. We get so many strange characters: Cookie the stuttering narrator of the opening, the shell shocked Joey, the rough around the edges Animal, Shefton who deals with the Nazis, Shapiro who lies about the letters he gets and makes constant jokes, and the most clean cut of the pows turns out to be the mole. What's that mean about being an American?
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