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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 1:02:14 GMT -5
IMDB page for Stalag 17: www.imdb.com/title/tt0046359/Essay on some of themes at play in Stalag 17: sensesofcinema.com/2000/feature-articles/stalag/Main F.A.N. movie club thread: officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=434020On Sgt J.J. Sefton trading goods with the Nazi guards: Sefton: What's the beef, boys? So I'm trading. Everybody here is trading. So maybe I trade a little sharper. That make me a collaborator? Duke: A lot sharper, Sefton. I'd like to have some of that loot you got in those footlockers. Sefton: Oh you would, would you? Listen, stupe. The first week I was in this joint, somebody stole my Red Cross package, my blanket, and my left shoe. Well, since then I've wised up. This ain't no Salvation Army - this is everybody for himself, dog eat dog. Director Billy Wilder's ("Some Like it Hot","Sunset Blvd.) W.W. II black comedy, based on a Broadway play, follows a series of strange events that befall Stalag 17, a prison camp for Allied POWs near the Danube. At the start of the film, the POWS attempt to help two of their number, Manfredi and Johnson, escape from the prison camp. Believing that the plan was to go without a hitch, the POWs watch in horror as Manfredi and Johnson get gunned down by prison guards and blame for the security breach goes all around. The POWS conclude that one of their own number tipped off the Nazis about the escape attempt and that a mole hides in their barracks. They have to discover who the mole is before they can help a newly transferred officer escape. But who is it? Is it Cookie, the stammering narrator who's plane was shot down over Magdeborg, Germany? The Animal, a proto "Animal House" John Blutarsky-like character who complains about the food and obsesses over the screen actress Betty Grable? Is it the wisecracking Shapiro who gets more letters than anyone else in Stalag 17 or Joey, a victim of PTTS, who, zombie-like, plays the flute at all hours? Blame falls on Sgt J.J Sefton (William Holden), a nihilist who trades contraband with the Nazis and bets on the lives of his fellow soldiers. Defiant, sarcastic, cowardly, Sefton is the worst of the worst and seemingly cares only about himself, but is he the true threat? Sefton's interactions with the rest of the POWs and the stance he takes in regards to his captivity at Stalag 17 creates the tension at the heart of the film. "Stalag 17" boasts an ensemble cast that features William Holden ("The Wild Bunch", "Network"), in an Oscar winning performance as Sefton; Otto Preminger, most famous for directing such films as "Laura" and "The Man with the Golden Arm", as the ex pro wrestler and hilarious if terrifying Nazi Oberst von Scherbach; character actor Robert Strauss ("The Seven Year Itch", "The Brides at Toko-Ri) who was nominated for a Best Supporting Oscar as the Animal, a role he originated in the Broadway play; and Peter Graves (The "Mission Impossible" television series; Airplane!) as Sgt. Price, the representative for the POWS. Points to Consider: 1. What does it mean to be American? How does Stalag 17 deal with individuality vs. the community? What does it say about McCarthyism? 2. I labeled the film a dark comedy, a genre that Billy Wilder visited often in his career. When is it funny? When is it tragic and, of course, when do these points intersect? What happens when a film with a serious subject (POWs being betrayed by one of their own) contains a lot of humor? 3. Vantage point: As Cookie says in the beginning: "I don't know about you, but it always makes me sore when I see those war pictures... all about flying leathernecks and submarine patrols and frogmen and guerillas in the Philippines. What gets me is that there never w-was a movie about POWs - about prisoners of war." What does it say about War to make a war movie with little action, far away from the front line, and dealing with people after their combat has concluded? Is it still a War movie or has it turned into something else? And if it still is a War movie, what does it do to maintain it's genre? *****Tune in next time for Francis Ford Coppla's Vietnam War masterpiece "Apocalypse Now"*****
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Aug 4, 2012 3:29:56 GMT -5
How appropriate that this follows Triumph of the Will from two weeks ago.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 3:34:43 GMT -5
Then we have Apocalypse Now. If we had MASH and All Quiet on the Western Front, we'd be set
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Aug 4, 2012 7:46:14 GMT -5
Then we have Apocalypse Now. If we had MASH and All Quiet on the Western Front, we'd be set Two very great films. If war films are ok, one I'd like to recommend as well is Das Boot.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Aug 4, 2012 8:24:48 GMT -5
AT EASE!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 9:34:31 GMT -5
AT EASE! AT EASE!
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Aug 4, 2012 14:17:06 GMT -5
updated the sig to reflect the movie of the week. Will have to watch this movie sometime soon.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Aug 4, 2012 15:00:44 GMT -5
It's a good film, one of Billy Wilder's better serious films. Unfortunately, I had the distinction of watching this after both The Great Escape and Bridge on the River Kwai, both of which I consider vastly superior and it's really unfair of me to compare them, honestly. I did feel the climax of the movie.. {Spoiler}where the spy is sent out as a red herring so the real escapee could get away was a tad silly. If I was the spy, what's stopping me from hitting the ground immediately in order to avoid getting shot? Again, it's got a lot of really good performances and Holden rightfully deserved his Best Actor award. If you haven't seen it or the other two I mentioned, do yourself a favor and watch this one first, otherwise you'll try to make unjustified comparisons.
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bob
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Post by bob on Aug 4, 2012 19:05:46 GMT -5
I just finished it. I really enjoyed it, however my main issue with Stalag 17, which is nitpicking, is that each time I've seen it is {Spoiler}that everything is so over the top in terms of comedy that when something serious happens that it is difficult to treat it as such as is the case with most dramatic comedies.
However this film is a fantastic one and is deservedly called a classic.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 23:21:56 GMT -5
It's a good film, one of Billy Wilder's better serious films. Unfortunately, I had the distinction of watching this after both The Great Escape and Bridge on the River Kwai, both of which I consider vastly superior and it's really unfair of me to compare them, honestly. I did feel the climax of the movie.. {Spoiler}where the spy is sent out as a red herring so the real escapee could get away was a tad silly. If I was the spy, what's stopping me from hitting the ground immediately in order to avoid getting shot? Again, it's got a lot of really good performances and Holden rightfully deserved his Best Actor award. If you haven't seen it or the other two I mentioned, do yourself a favor and watch this one first, otherwise you'll try to make unjustified comparisons. Have you ever seen Jacques Becker's "Le Trou" or Robert Bresson's "A Man Escaped"? Two other great prison escape movies, quite different in tone to the other movies mentioned. The scale to this film is certainly much smaller; I prefer "Stalag 17" to "The Great Escape" but I need to see "Bridge over the River Kwai". You certainly pinpoint one of the plot holes in the film in your spoiler and it does bear pointing out. And Bob, yeah the tonal changes do jar me a bit too. Don't really know how to feel at times. I think it does try to be funny to an unnecessary degree at times and there's an element of melodrama that can be poignant to some and overwrought to others, in particular the "When Johnny comes Marching Home" song, which I find quite chilling in a blunt way.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Aug 4, 2012 23:29:51 GMT -5
Have you ever seen Jacques Becker's "Le Trou" or Robert Bresson's "A Man Escaped"? Two other great prison escape movies, quite different in tone to the other movies mentioned. The scale to this film is certainly much smaller; I prefer "Stalag 17" to "The Great Escape" but I need to see "Bridge over the River Kwai". I've seen A Man Escaped and thought the ending was really good, especially how it felt like it was in real time. I don't consider it part of this group since he was a prisoner of the state and not a POW, but still...yeah it's a pretty good movie if you can put up with French subtitles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 0:03:39 GMT -5
Have you ever seen Jacques Becker's "Le Trou" or Robert Bresson's "A Man Escaped"? Two other great prison escape movies, quite different in tone to the other movies mentioned. The scale to this film is certainly much smaller; I prefer "Stalag 17" to "The Great Escape" but I need to see "Bridge over the River Kwai". I've seen A Man Escaped and thought the ending was really good, especially how it felt like it was in real time. I don't consider it part of this group since he was a prisoner of the state and not a POW, but still...yeah it's a pretty good movie if you can put up with French subtitles. I'm a big Bresson fan; he can make a lot of films work. He made a great movie about a donkey ;D.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Aug 5, 2012 0:09:20 GMT -5
I'm a big Bresson fan; he can make a lot of films work. He made a great movie about a donkey ;D. I haven't seen Au Hasard Balthazar, but I've heard good things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 0:11:08 GMT -5
I'm a big Bresson fan; he can make a lot of films work. He made a great movie about a donkey ;D. I haven't seen Au Hasard Balthazar, but I've heard good things. Lovely movie but pretty sad. Poor donkey As for "Stalag 17", what did you guys think of the dance scenes, for those who've seen it?
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Aug 5, 2012 0:12:50 GMT -5
Don't spoil it! Dammit!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 0:16:02 GMT -5
Didn't spoil the ending, just that the donkey leads a sad life.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Aug 5, 2012 0:16:54 GMT -5
Well, they aren't beasts of burden for nothing!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 0:18:31 GMT -5
Well, they aren't beasts of burden for nothing!
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bob
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Post by bob on Aug 5, 2012 0:30:33 GMT -5
I haven't seen Au Hasard Balthazar, but I've heard good things. Lovely movie but pretty sad. Poor donkey As for "Stalag 17", what did you guys think of the dance scenes, for those who've seen it? {Spoiler}funny, but again considering that at that point Price's identity as the traitor was known by Sefton and they're playing it up as Sefton is trying to come up with a way use this information is great drama -- instantly diminished
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Post by bitteroldman on Aug 5, 2012 9:10:11 GMT -5
I thought the movie did a great job of keeping the secret of who was the collaborator.
It may be set in a POW camp and but it is not a "war film" per se, it's a drama with just enough comedic scenes to take the edge off at times. I wouldn't call it a black comedy either, to me a black comedy should not feature so many scenes played for obvious comedic effect. My faorite example of a black comedy is "Dr. Strangelove" which nevers goes for obvious comedic effect, it deals more with the absurdity of a real life situation. Kubrick was correct to change the original ending of the film which featured a pie fight in the war room. Slapstick would not have fit with the tone of the rest of the movie.
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