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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 15, 2012 17:20:40 GMT -5
I still say the "indoctrination theory" would just ruin the ending far more than the vague non-ending we did get. it just seems to much like a "I didn't like it so I'm going to make a convoluted reason for why it didn't happen" thing.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 15, 2012 17:38:11 GMT -5
I can honestly say the Indoctrination theory, if it was true, would make me really, really hate the ending and make the one we currently have seem satisfying by comparison.
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clifford
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Post by clifford on Apr 15, 2012 18:24:27 GMT -5
I too hate the whole Indoctrination theory. Its really just grasping at straws.
Plus if you were to believe it, then the 'best' ending with the indoctrination theory is the 'Destroy' one, which is the ONLY one given if your EMS is too low. Why would the 'best' ending be the easiest one to get?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 15, 2012 18:50:24 GMT -5
I'll be honest, now that the writers said the "destroy" ending doesn't f*** over galactic civilization the way it looks llike it does, it comes off to me as the best ending. sorry, I just spent the last 2 games (I have the PS3 version) dealing with these complete monster robot nutjobs who keep going on about about how great they are and how I should just give up and let them harvest everyone, and since I already got the Geth wiped out, I see no real negative outcome to blowing their asses to kingdom come. plus it puts that annoying little jimmy hologram in his place
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Post by Cyno on Apr 15, 2012 18:52:22 GMT -5
Yeah, especially since {Spoiler}it looks like Destroy is the only one Shepard actually lives I don't really see the point of doing the Control or Synthesis endings unless you're sadistic to your characters. Unless that changes with the Extended DLC.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 15, 2012 18:55:08 GMT -5
I'm sure all 3 of them will probably come off as much better options with the DLC, but right now all we can go off is the writers saying that FTL travel is still possible and nobody's going to starve. which, let's be honest, is the real reason people hated the ending. if that had been made clear in the original endings I doubt there would've been much of a kerfuffle over it.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 15, 2012 21:59:53 GMT -5
I'm sure all 3 of them will probably come off as much better options with the DLC, but right now all we can go off is the writers saying that FTL travel is still possible and nobody's going to starve. which, let's be honest, is the real reason people hated the ending. if that had been made clear in the original endings I doubt there would've been much of a kerfuffle over it. ...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... Anyway, stay classy, EA... That is an authentic advertisement sent out by EA's advertisement department.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 15, 2012 22:08:53 GMT -5
I'm sure all 3 of them will probably come off as much better options with the DLC, but right now all we can go off is the writers saying that FTL travel is still possible and nobody's going to starve. which, let's be honest, is the real reason people hated the ending. if that had been made clear in the original endings I doubt there would've been much of a kerfuffle over it. ...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... Well, there's this thing that people who hated the endings have different opinions and all on what, exactly, was wrong with the ending. Shocking concept, I know. Lumping all the anti-ending group into one hive mind opinion is just as bad as lumping them all together as whiny, entitled manchildren. Also LOL @ that advertisement.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Apr 15, 2012 22:14:09 GMT -5
I'm sure all 3 of them will probably come off as much better options with the DLC, but right now all we can go off is the writers saying that FTL travel is still possible and nobody's going to starve. which, let's be honest, is the real reason people hated the ending. if that had been made clear in the original endings I doubt there would've been much of a kerfuffle over it. ...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... Anyway, stay classy, EA... That is an authentic advertisement sent out by EA's advertisement department. Are they lying? Well are they?
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Post by Cyno on Apr 15, 2012 22:18:03 GMT -5
Well, it's PR's job to put a favorable spin on everything. They're not going to say "Mass Effect 3: Our Ending Sucks!" because that's not how advertising works. That's just retarded.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 0:05:27 GMT -5
...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... Anyway, stay classy, EA... That is an authentic advertisement sent out by EA's advertisement department. Are they lying? Well are they? A lie by omission is still a lie. EW was one of the companies that jumped on the "everyone who hated the ending is entitled and whiny" bandwagon, but the particular article this quote came from was actually after they started interaction with the "anti-ending" crowd, and saw that it was deeper than "not liking" the ending. The article they pulled it from was pretty mirrored to what Forbes said, in that "you know, they're not WRONG in saying the ending was counterproductive, and it wouldn't be a bad business decision to redo the ending to allow the fans to make the decisions they feel they deserve in a game that revolves around 'player choice', and would like to see their decisions actually play out."
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 0:08:25 GMT -5
...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... Well, there's this thing that people who hated the endings have different opinions and all on what, exactly, was wrong with the ending. Shocking concept, I know. Lumping all the anti-ending group into one hive mind opinion is just as bad as lumping them all together as whiny, entitled manchildren. Also LOL @ that advertisement. That's why I left my statement open-ended as opposed to Baldobomb's "if they told us people didn't starve, then nobody would be upset". There's a Google Document out there of a huge amount of unique reasons why the ending is trash. But, yeah, EA is seemingly going out of their way to justify the "worst company in America" trophy they just "won", what, with this fallout, the Origin stuff they're going through now...
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Post by Cyno on Apr 16, 2012 0:26:39 GMT -5
I can't take anyone who actually thinks EA is the worst company in the world seriously. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Compared to some of the shit Bank of America and Monsanto have pulled, EA look like freakin' saints.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 0:29:10 GMT -5
I can't take anyone who actually thinks EA is the worst company in the world seriously. Talk about a lack of perspective. Oh, dude, I agree. A crappy ending or a company that screwed millions of people out of their livelihoods? It's a pretty difficult job to convince me EA is worse than the other companies. Worst gaming/distribution company? I'd argue it's a three-way tie between them, Capcom, and Activision, but worst COMPANY... that's a harder sale...
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Post by Cyno on Apr 16, 2012 9:49:27 GMT -5
I'd put Ubisoft in the running, too. Their DRM practices have been real disgusting. They want to be EA or Activision, except they're way more incompetent.
Activision I'm mixed on. On the one hand, they've done a lot of terrible things like ruin the Guitar Hero series and Kotick is a douchebag. Yet they own Blizzard and I heart Blizzard. Plus I needs my WoW fix.
EA a few years ago looked like they were finally starting to get away from their terrible "Buy up studios and destroy them, and also dat Madden" reputation they earned in the 90's and early 00's by encouraging original IP's and genuinely aiming for quality. Now they're reverting back to the "Old EA" and it's pretty sad. I still like Bioware and I don't think EA has ruined them, though I have a gut feeling that ME3's development was rushed by EA to meet the end of the fiscal year. But if it wasn't for EA being Bioware's sugar daddy they wouldn't have the money and influence to convince LucasArts to do TOR (which contrary to what you see on the internet, is quite successful and dare I say good). And Origin is a terrible, terrible program.
I'm pretty much done with Capcom. Their games have been real lacking lately and their DLC practices are arguably the worst in the industry.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 16, 2012 9:54:35 GMT -5
I'm sure all 3 of them will probably come off as much better options with the DLC, but right now all we can go off is the writers saying that FTL travel is still possible and nobody's going to starve. which, let's be honest, is the real reason people hated the ending. if that had been made clear in the original endings I doubt there would've been much of a kerfuffle over it. ...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... or maybe I beat the game myself and that's the only problem I had with the ending, which is the same as friends oof mine who beat the game. but thanks for putting words in my mouth
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 10:20:37 GMT -5
...I think you've been listening to the "anti-ending" crowd as much as BioWare has... or maybe I beat the game myself and that's the only problem I had with the ending, which is the same as friends oof mine who beat the game. but thanks for putting words in my mouth Or you could reread what you put. You said that people (as in, your statement establishing "everyone") hated the endings because they didn't establish FTL was still possible (never said, they just said that interstellar travel was still possible, but it'd take years or decades for them to travel to other galaxies), and that people would starve. You and your one friend agreed on that, but 2 =/= "the main reason people were pissed". There's a reason I always preface my statements with "some", "most", "few"... those quantifiers sure help at establishing numerical value. You are, in a word, slightly right. People were pissed about how every race that helped was stuck in the Sol system, which would cause mass rapings, starvation, power struggle on a planet void of the abilities to cater to even one race, so I apologize to you for how I discussed that point. Still, EA/BioWare can now no longer officially consider the "anti-ending" crowd as a "vocal minority" if they're now establishing a "bigger/biggest fan reaction to an ending". I'm not, nor have I ever, dictated how they run a business, I'm just seriously suggesting they go back to the drawing board, admit that their endings sucked (they can maintain it was "art"... just acknowledge that the "art" wasn't accepted by the majority of the public), and actually listen to the fans; work on a selection of endings. Hell, I guarantee you anyone who cares about the series at all has their own ideas on how they'd end the game, and dollars to donuts, even joke-endings would be better than what we got. The starvation/stuck in Sol/destruction of Mass Relays is ONE of the HUNDREDS of plot holes that the ending brought up, and "clarification" isn't going to be able to close many of them. They still ignore the "Arrival DLC" Mass Relay destruction argument by pretty much just saying "nuh uh, we NEVER established the destruction of the relays would destroy an entire galaxy..." Most of the ending hatred was about how your choices didn't matter at the end of the day, which is something that, according to the developers, still isn't being addressed. That and the God damned star god child. They're committed to keeping that thing canon for some unknown reason... I don't follow Ubisoft enough to know anything about them. Hand to Bible, I sure couldn't even tell you one game they've had any hand in dealing with. As far as Activision, the hatred against them is PRETTY much on Kotick. Hell, one of the funniest things I've ever read on this board was a post by Koda on how douchebag the guy is. Don't get me wrong, the downfall of the Guitar Hero license has only strengthened the Rock Band name, which makes me happy. More and more bands are signing on to work with an independent company (Harmonix) to help make the game better. They don't have the Activision money, so I doubt I'll ever see Eric Clapton or the Rolling Stones (other than "Gimme Shelter") on Rock Band any time in the near future, but Harmonix shows people an example of how a company listens to their fans, and releases new, unique DLC every week for the past four years. Hell, they just released a Pink pack because people wanted more from her (for... some reason...). And, yeah, eff Capcom. They will never learn until they go bankrupt from their horrendous DLC practices ($2 for a effing COLOR PACK?!? Who are you, Lionhead Studios?!?). It kills me, I grew up on Street Fighter (and Mortal Kombat), and I loved Dead Rising 1 and 2, but, yeah, I'm done with all things Capcom until they drop the microtransaction bullcrap (well, work on a better system. Hell, Mortal Kombat blew every Capcom fighting game out of the water in every measurable way the past few years).
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 16, 2012 10:31:54 GMT -5
but the choices DID matter. the whole third game revolves around choices you made. the choices you make determines how big an army you get, and how the story leading up to the end goes. at the end every plot point's already been resolved. yes I do agree that it's kind of lame that the ending boils down to "pick A,B or C". but is that really so terrible? if they had made less vague endings that didn't make it look like you just screwed over the galaxy, which is apparently nor was it ever the actual case, I doubt the vitriol would have even been half as big. what exactly do people who hate the ending so much really want? do they REALLY want a "nope that didn't happen because MAGIC" retcon? because that's exactly what the "Indoctrination theory" is. seriously, I mean, I've been over this to the point where I don't even care anymore, and I just want to know what kind of ending the people freaking out about "choice" really want. were there things to fix about the ending? yeah. but really the only thing that really sucked about the ending was the "everyone is screwed" implication, which is apparently being addressed in the ending extensions. I mean, would you REALLY want to play a game where at the end you have an awesome showdown with one of the big bad guys (TIM) only for the game to pull a "nuh uh that didn't really happen lol" and put you back on earth?
and they did address the difference between "The Arrival" and the end of ME3. they said that the big difference was that The Arrival was an intentional over-loading that caused a massive system-wide explosion, whereas what happened at the end of ME3 was different. do they need to explain HOW it's different? of course. but they have already said it's different circumstances and the types of explosion are functionally different. remember, the Mass Relay in The Arrival was blown up by Sheppard, but the Crucible is what activates all the Mass Relays in ME3. it's differnent tech, different kinds of explosion, and different purposes.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 16, 2012 10:37:54 GMT -5
or maybe I beat the game myself and that's the only problem I had with the ending, which is the same as friends oof mine who beat the game. but thanks for putting words in my mouth And, yeah, eff Capcom. They will never learn until they go bankrupt from their horrendous DLC practices ($2 for a effing COLOR PACK?!? Who are you, Lionhead Studios?!?). It kills me, I grew up on Street Fighter (and Mortal Kombat), and I loved Dead Rising 1 and 2, but, yeah, I'm done with all things Capcom until they drop the microtransaction bullcrap (well, work on a better system. Hell, Mortal Kombat blew every Capcom fighting game out of the water in every measurable way the past few years). I still want to know how that crap they pulled with SF VS. Tekken is even legal.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 16, 2012 10:38:30 GMT -5
The choices didn't effect the actual ending in any significant way though.
Nobody played this game expecting to walk into a Deus Ex:Human Revolution Pick-Your-Ending-Machine.
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