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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 24, 2012 8:33:54 GMT -5
I'm not necessarily defending Jones for not taking the Sonnen fight.... I just don't believe it is his fault for the PPV being cancelled. I blame Dana even more now with the information about Anderson Silva coming out. If that is true, which it seems like it is, he obviously didn't do everything he could to keep from cancelling the PPV. He cancelled the PPV as a shot at Jones, plain and simple. The fighters should be more mad at Dana and the UFC. Basically. There's plenty of blame to go around in this situation, but Dana eats most of it, in my opinion.
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Post by Been burned too many times on Aug 24, 2012 8:46:35 GMT -5
I agree, Dana didn't have to cancel the whole show. Many fighters won't even get paid now, that's not Jones' fault. I wanted to the prior main event(s) too but those matches not happening doesn't mean that Dana had to cancel the whole card.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Aug 24, 2012 10:34:26 GMT -5
Here's the biggest issue, in my opinion:
In an effort to run as many shows as possible, Dana, the Fertittas and Joe Silva have spread the talent too thin.
Had there been even a half-decent undercard on 151 featuring a couple of draws or even well-known names, they still would have been able to run the card and bump up something to the main event slot.
Because they didn't, this wasn't even an option and cancellation was the only recourse.
Don't get me wrong, I understand injuries play a huge role in all of this, but this smacks of poor asset management from Zuffa and simply bad planning. This goes to show you why you shouldn't think you can get by on a one fight card.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 24, 2012 10:35:59 GMT -5
For the record, what was the full card for 151 before the cancellation?
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Post by Sparvid on Aug 24, 2012 11:03:02 GMT -5
Sonnen certainly is in a win-win predicament either way. Fight happens....likely loses, gets a big payday and looks better for taking the fight. Fight doesn't happen....gets to trash talk Jones all over Sportscenter and keep his name out there even though he should have disappeared after the Spider loss. mmajunkie.com/news/30348/chael-sonnen-says-ufc-151-was-bigger-than-one-bratty-entitled-kid-but-its-too-late-now.mmaJust thought of something, UFC 126: Rogan: "Rashad Evans is injured, he blew out his knee. The UFC wants to give you the opportunity to face Shogun Rua for the Light Heavyweight Championship of the World." Jones: "That is so great. God is so good, I feel so great. I’m going for a World Title, baby! Let's do it!" Rogan: "Wait, sorry, Shogun just said that he doesn't feel like fighting you. Never mind."
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zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
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Post by zeez on Aug 24, 2012 11:20:13 GMT -5
For the record, what was the full card for 151 before the cancellation? Jon Jones vs. Dan Henderson Jake Ellenberger vs. Jay Hieron Dennis Siver vs. Eddie Yagin Dennis Hallman vs. Thiago Tavares Jon Lineker vs. Yasuhiro Urus***ani (don't know if it's okay to write a name that has a swear in it) Michael Johnson vs. Danny Castillo Takeya Mizugaki vs. Jeff Houghland Tim Means vs. Abel Trujillo Daron Cruickshank vs. Henry Martinez Shane Roller vs. Jacob Volkmann Kyle Noke vs. Charlie Brenneman Shows the difficulty UFC had in keeping this show on since there weren't any fights on the card that would've made for a suitable replacement for the main event.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 24, 2012 11:47:32 GMT -5
Yeah, the ONLY other match on that card I'm interested in seeing is Siver vs. Yagin, and that's just because I'm a big Dennis Siver fan. Weak card, Dana should have known better.
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salz4life
Grimlock
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Post by salz4life on Aug 24, 2012 11:50:27 GMT -5
Yeah, the ONLY other match on that card I'm interested in seeing is Siver vs. Yagin, and that's just because I'm a big Dennis Siver fan. Weak card, Dana should have known better. If you look at UFC 145 (Jones/Evans) it was very similar. Even UFC 140, but to a lesser extent (that card had Mir/Big Nog and Ortiz/Lil Nog). Dana put all his money into Jones and this time, it bit him in the rear end. Of course, Dana could NEVER be at fault so he decides to bad mouth Jon Jones.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 24, 2012 12:47:37 GMT -5
Literally everything in that post blows my mind.
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Post by corndog on Aug 24, 2012 13:14:39 GMT -5
Yeah, the ONLY other match on that card I'm interested in seeing is Siver vs. Yagin, and that's just because I'm a big Dennis Siver fan. Weak card, Dana should have known better. If you look at UFC 145 (Jones/Evans) it was very similar. Even UFC 140, but to a lesser extent (that card had Mir/Big Nog and Ortiz/Lil Nog). Dana put all his money into Jones and this time, it bit him in the rear end. Of course, Dana could NEVER be at fault so he decides to bad mouth Jon Jones. UFC just needs to cut out 2 ppvs a year, it would make a world of difference and they probably wouldn't even notice the money lost.
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by 543Y2J on Aug 24, 2012 14:04:26 GMT -5
Just thought of something, UFC 126: Rogan: "Rashad Evans is injured, he blew out his knee. The UFC wants to give you the opportunity to face Shogun Rua for the Light Heavyweight Championship of the World." Jones: "That is so great. God is so good, I feel so great. I’m going for a World Title, baby! Let's do it!" Rogan: "Wait, sorry, Shogun just said that he doesn't feel like fighting you. Never mind." I had completely forgot about this happening, yeah this doesn't help my opinion on Jones currently. I'm really looking forward to Jones vs Belfort, I am not a fan of him at the moment but I think Jones is going to win this easily, he is on a completely different level. All this controversy has got some more eyes on the company now, and they have my attention again after months off from following after Silva vs Sonnen due to the weak cards. Either way it has been a very interesting few days for the company and fans.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 24, 2012 14:12:04 GMT -5
Sonnen certainly is in a win-win predicament either way. Fight happens....likely loses, gets a big payday and looks better for taking the fight. Fight doesn't happen....gets to trash talk Jones all over Sportscenter and keep his name out there even though he should have disappeared after the Spider loss. mmajunkie.com/news/30348/chael-sonnen-says-ufc-151-was-bigger-than-one-bratty-entitled-kid-but-its-too-late-now.mmaJust thought of something, UFC 126: Rogan: "Rashad Evans is injured, he blew out his knee. The UFC wants to give you the opportunity to face Shogun Rua for the Light Heavyweight Championship of the World." Jones: "That is so great. God is so good, I feel so great. I’m going for a World Title, baby! Let's do it!" Rogan: "Wait, sorry, Shogun just said that he doesn't feel like fighting you. Never mind." Of course the big difference here is that Shogun still had over a month to train and prepare to face Jones. Jones had eight days to get ready for Sonnen, most of which will be filled with interviews and promotional stuff. Sonnen would also only have eight days, but he has nothing to lose from this fight. It keeps him in the spotlight longer, thus giving him more high profile matches.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,047
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Aug 24, 2012 14:45:16 GMT -5
And I ask the people who are making Jones the hated man in this, why the hell would he take a fight with someone who made a complete ass of himself in his last fight? Sonnen has not earned a title shot so why should he be gifted one?
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 24, 2012 14:56:41 GMT -5
So weird, sooo very weird. Jones is a hated man for all of this. But for what it's worth, I think all you guys should read this. These are the reactions of many UFC fighters. www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/418115/UFC-fighters-blast-Jon-Jones/So for the people defending jones, including some in that article, it's looking like a losing effort. I've been a Pittsburgh Pirates fan for over 20 years. I know all about backing a losing effort. And is it really shocking that the people Dana White/UFC pays are siding with Dana White/UFC?
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B.A.
Grimlock
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Post by B.A. on Aug 24, 2012 15:25:27 GMT -5
So weird, sooo very weird. Jones is a hated man for all of this. But for what it's worth, I think all you guys should read this. These are the reactions of many UFC fighters. www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/418115/UFC-fighters-blast-Jon-Jones/So for the people defending jones, including some in that article, it's looking like a losing effort. I've been a Pittsburgh Pirates fan for over 20 years. I know all about backing a losing effort. And is it really shocking that the people Dana White/UFC pays are siding with Dana White/UFC? point taken, but the names of people who are supporting Jones/opposing Dana's viewpoint, are equal in notoriety, one being the current lightweight champ, Benson Henderson. Also, Roy Nelson tweeted his support. IMO, it doesnt matter, Dana after all likes opinions. He's given fans the chance to sway his opinion on who gets fights.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 24, 2012 17:07:13 GMT -5
To me, Jones doesn't want to give Sonnen vindication by fighting him. He thinks that Sonnen doesn't even deserve to fight him, let alone get a title shot, and by accepting that fight, he's helping to legitimize Sonnen as a threat.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Aug 24, 2012 17:39:11 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but didn't UFC cancel another even before?
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Aug 24, 2012 18:38:12 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but didn't UFC cancel another even before? They cancelled a PPV in Montreal that was scheduled for March as they couldn't get a main event for it, but they cancelled it in January before tickets went on sale. For those people ragging on Chael. Yes Chael is Chael, but you can't blame him for any of this. He didn't call Dana and beg for the fight. A question for those who don't like Chael because he "wasn't worthy". Do you think Vitor is any better? Also
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,047
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Aug 24, 2012 18:44:04 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but didn't UFC cancel another even before? They cancelled a PPV in Montreal that was scheduled for March as they couldn't get a main event for it, but they cancelled it in January before tickets went on sale. For those people ragging on Chael. Yes Chael is Chael, but you can't blame him for any of this. He didn't call Dana and beg for the fight. A question for those who don't like Chael because he "wasn't worthy". Do you think Vitor is any better? Also Vitor has won his last two fights in impressive fasion. Chael Sonnen lost his last fight because of his clumsiness and some would say got a gift victory over Michael Bisping. If Chael would have won his fight against Silva, he would be there. But he didn't so he shouldn't get a shot at the title in a division he doesn't usually fight at.
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tenshi
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Post by tenshi on Aug 24, 2012 19:24:54 GMT -5
Having in mind that Vitor's last fight ended up being in light heavyweight and he won by submission, at least you can make the case of Vitor having a better shot at going up a weight class and face Jones than Chael, who only had 8 days to go up 20 pounds and be in good enough shape to fight and come up with a decent strategy to beat him.
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