there's so much pro WWE bias and anti TNA everything going on these days. Even if the product in TNA is lacking, it's still a problem, imo
WCW in the mid 90s didn't have the best product ever, but people still gave Nitro a chance. People seem unwilling to give them a chance. As obvious by the Jan 4 through late Spring 2010 Monday Night skirmish. Veteran wrestlers know this and they don't stray far from the WWE after they're no longer being used
Some do... that's been addressed as a problem by many, but maybe it's not as big of a problem as fan nepotism. Something that wasn't a huge factor when the last boom kicked in.
During the last boom, over the hill wrestlers, who were still very popular, didn't follow or work in fear of this fan trend
in my opinion this is why more big marquee wrestlers have avoided signing with TNA. if more had, it would have got even more fans watching TNA, giving the WWE more competition
wrestlers who i feel like have done so
Steve Austin Chris Jericho MVP Shawn Michaels Batista
and many more current WWE stars who chose to stay with WWE as opposed to considering going to the competition
now, I understand and accept the argument that TNA just isn't as big as WCW was. still, I think that fan nepotism is a big problem
Kane and Big Show are The Local Men. The Local Men are Kane and Big Show. No one else can join, no one else was a Local Man in some other era. As long as it's kept to those two, it's most absolutely beautiful idea ever.
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 20, 2011 8:38:59 GMT -5
There's a world of difference between WCW and TNA, and not just in the on-screen product.
The first is money. The reason WCW attracted so many WWF stars was due to the fact that they were being offered more guaranteed money than they were getting with Vince. This is not so with TNA. It's more profitable for a marquee name to stick with WWE, work their name value on the indies, or go to Japan. As with Gail Kim, you're more likely to see someone jump from TNA to WWE for monetary reasons than the other way around.
Additionally, the only time WCW's on-screen product reached TNA-levels of suck was in 1999 and 2000. If you are trying to attract new fans, resembling a product that lost a dedicated fan base in droves is not the way to do it.
I want TNA to succeed, the business needs two big companies (at least) to drive competition, but TNA keep shooting themselves in the foot over and over again. Until they can rectify the basic fundamental flaws in their business model and on-screen product they won't ever grow beyond being a glorified indy company.
WCW in the mid 90s WAS awesome, and people watched Nitro because at the time it was a fresh concept in wrestling. Sure there was Raw, but it was taped every other week,and it's matches weren't nearly as good.
TNA has had a few great periods here and there, and when they do, people praise them. The problem is, the product has existed for nearly a decade, and it's been bad far more often than good. They have burned their fans several times and made them highly skeptical of the product.
People do not hate TNA, they want it to be good. And if they don't think it is, why should they spend their precious time and their hard earned money supporting a product they don't like just to "help the business". That's ridiculous.
If TNA can't MAKE people care enough by putting on awesome shows, then they do not deserve the support.
As for another "boom" who cares? I love wrestling, but as much as I recommend it to others, I can't make them watch or care. I think wrestling will be just fine though. I mean, WWE is starting a whole freaking wrestling channel in a matter of months. That's hardly a sign of a dying business. And if we get to a point where WWE is the only major promotion, so be it.
WCW in the mid 90s didn't have the best product ever, but people still gave Nitro a chance. People seem unwilling to give them a chance. As obvious by the Jan 4 through late Spring 2010 Monday Night skirmish.
People gave TNA a chance on January 4. The problem is, that show sucked. The first match people see is a Scramble Cage match, where you can't see inside the damn ring, and it ends in a no contest due to weapon use. The rest of the night, youv'e got the Nasty Boys walking around, Val Venis popping up, the possible reformation of the nWo, Hogan burying Jeff Jarrett and what came before January 4, and the end of the show being "What will Hogan do?"
Instead of the main focus being on what TNA has to offer that WWE doesn't, it was "Look at the old stars we've got." Kong and Hamada vs Taylor and Sarita was an excellent match, but they weren't even close to being a focus of the show. AJ vs Angle should have been the last thing the fans saw, and the focus of the show, but couldn't have that.
And then along the way, you get dumb s*** like Joe being kidnapped by ninjas, moving away from 6 sides, Abyss and the magical ring, AJ being buried by RVD, and the Lockbox Challenge. People gave TNA a shot during that time, the problem was TNA kept doing dumb s***.
Those guys didn't choose not to go to TNA because of fan nepotism. They don't go to TNA because they don't think TNA has anything to offer them. Kurt and Jeff had their reasons for going to TNA, whether it be because of schedule or because they didn't want to go into WWE sponsored rehab or whatever reason you so wish to believe.
Austin and Michaels are both retired, there'd be no purpose for them to go to TNA other than play second fiddle to Hogan as pseudo-retired guys taking TV time, and why would either want to do that?
Batista was burnt out on the industry as a whole, evidenced by the fact that he's done nothing with it since he left.
MVP probably figured he'd make more money on the Japanese circuit than he would have in TNA. As was stated, that's why guys jumped to WCW, because WCW could afford to throw big wads of cash at them.
Chris Jericho seems fine in his role as part-time wrestler, part-time musician. While that could work in TNA, WWE has also been willing to do the same thing, pretty much, for likely more money.
They all have valid reasons other than "fans don't like TNA." As for the idea that TNA being more successful would lead to a boom, probably not. WWE has been struggling as well, so it's not like everyone is being wrestling snobs only going for WWE. Many of the fans who were present in the last boom just aren't there now, for any company.
[quote author=crabnebula board=tna thread=407644 post=7990623 time=1324380797]....I think that fan nepotism is a big problem [/quote]
Actually I've been seriously considering leaving Pro Wrestling fandom all together, and fully joining MMA fandom, because of the die hard love expressed by the majority of smarks towards the E. Beyond the watered down concept of Sports Entertainment, I see little hope for actual Pro Wrestling to become mainstream again in North America.
Last Edit: Dec 20, 2011 12:10:47 GMT -5 by Celgress
WCW in the mid 90s didn't have the best product ever, but people still gave Nitro a chance. People seem unwilling to give them a chance. As obvious by the Jan 4 through late Spring 2010 Monday Night skirmish.
People gave TNA a chance on January 4. The problem is, that show sucked. The first match people see is a Scramble Cage match, where you can't see inside the damn ring, and it ends in a no contest due to weapon use. The rest of the night, youv'e got the Nasty Boys walking around, Val Venis popping up, the possible reformation of the nWo, Hogan burying Jeff Jarrett and what came before January 4, and the end of the show being "What will Hogan do?"
Instead of the main focus being on what TNA has to offer that WWE doesn't, it was "Look at the old stars we've got." Kong and Hamada vs Taylor and Sarita was an excellent match, but they weren't even close to being a focus of the show. AJ vs Angle should have been the last thing the fans saw, and the focus of the show, but couldn't have that.
And then along the way, you get dumb s*** like Joe being kidnapped by ninjas, moving away from 6 sides, Abyss and the magical ring, AJ being buried by RVD, and the Lockbox Challenge. People gave TNA a shot during that time, the problem was TNA kept doing dumb s***.
Thank you for posting this and saving me some time. It's not that people aren't willing to give TNA a chance, it's just that every time people have given TNA a chance, TNA puts out a shit show and the new viewers disappear. January 4th was the one big chance TNA had to truly rise up in the world of Pro Rasslin' and be seen as a true alternative to WWE (Let's be honest, they are NEVER going to be as big as WWE, no wrestling company is as long as WWE is around). TNA, instead of taking advantage of the opportunity and putting on an amazing show, just pissed it away by putting out a not very good show that was DEVOID of any long term planning.
No pictures, no gimmicks
Magic's list of people he's f***ing with rn: John Cena (Da God) Rey Mysterio (Living Legend) Handsome Rusev (New Japan, strap him up) R-Truth (He saves every segment he's in) Charlotte (The Queen) Hiroshi Tanahashi (Da God of NJPW) Bandido (Mans is too nice) Ricky Starks (Stroke Daddy)
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 20, 2011 12:29:23 GMT -5
People say that they want Tna to be good, but what they want is Tna to be perfect because they want it to become the next wcw. No mistakes, no bad angles, and push only the people they want. I don't know how many times I've heard over the years that Tna was "going under" just because of a bad angle or finish. Alot of Tna fans think of Tna as their own fantasy league because they think they know how to book a show better than the company can. while Tna has their faults, they aren't on deaths door as people have proclaimed.
"I know you love sugar, but I checked my pockets... I don't have no donuts...I don't have no cheeseburger... I KNOW YOU LOVE SUGAR, BUT I AIN'T GOT NONE!!!"
While it might be true for some (usually the most moderate and balanced of critics ; for instance, I have no problem believing Powell from Prowrestling.net sincerely hopes for TNA to fix itself and become a legit competitor to WWE ; but you won't convince me that Shore, Mr "TNA sucks, indies are the best, ROH on Sinclair will overthrow TNA in less than a year", will ever be happy with TNA, whatever they do), these words have become code, more often than not, for "I won't be happy as long as i'm not the head booker of the company, cos Russo & co are worse than anything, so I'll keep on armchair-booking & ranting about TNA up until the company crashes and burns".
The "I criticize TNA but it's because i only want it to get better and competitive" stance only works, as far as i'm concerned, if you can recognize the good from the bad in TNA's shows. But sadly, most of the time, people who hide behind the "I just want it to get better" excuse never have anything positive to say about the company, and only deal in absolutes, where the shows are entirely dreadful, where there's nothing to save from TNA, where the best thing that could happen it the death of TNA, and so on... and that, whether they still watch the shows or not.
[/D.A.M. deactivated]
To be fair, you are just referring to certain people. Don't get me wrong, there definitely are people who want TNA to just die but I think that the majority of people truly do want TNA to get better and they want to enjoy it. The reason why people complain about seemingly everything in TNA isn't that they want the company to die, it's that they really don't enjoy anything that's going on in the company. Granted, some of those complaints really do boil down to "I don't like Wrestler X getting a push" but still.
No pictures, no gimmicks
Magic's list of people he's f***ing with rn: John Cena (Da God) Rey Mysterio (Living Legend) Handsome Rusev (New Japan, strap him up) R-Truth (He saves every segment he's in) Charlotte (The Queen) Hiroshi Tanahashi (Da God of NJPW) Bandido (Mans is too nice) Ricky Starks (Stroke Daddy)
Post by Michael Coello on Dec 20, 2011 15:21:00 GMT -5
I find it hypocritical that people keep throwing out the "TNA is stupid/horrible/unwatchable" blanket statement crap out, when every week I keep reading people say a bunch of good things about the shows they just watched. IT's like they have no long term memory.
Last Edit: Dec 20, 2011 15:21:21 GMT -5 by Michael Coello
People say that they want Tna to be good, but what they want is Tna to be perfect because they want it to become the next wcw. No mistakes, no bad angles, and push only the people they want. I don't know how many times I've heard over the years that Tna was "going under" just because of a bad angle or finish. Alot of Tna fans think of Tna as their own fantasy league because they think they know how to book a show better than the company can. while Tna has their faults, they aren't on deaths door as people have proclaimed.
No, they aren't. I've heard they're going under dozens of times, usually just after an angle has happened that a lot of people here don't like. They are still here.
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
[quote author=crabnebula board=tna thread=407644 post=7990623 time=1324380797]....I think that fan nepotism is a big problem
Actually I've been seriously considering leaving Pro Wrestling fandom all together, and fully joining MMA fandom, because of the die hard love expressed by the majority of smarks towards the E. Beyond the watered down concept of Sports Entertainment, I see little hope for actual Pro Wrestling to become mainstream again in North America.[/quote]I hope you don't think hopping on the MMA bandwagon is going to be any better. MMA (mainly UFC) diehards are way worst than anyone you will meet online. If the only way you can enjoy something is if others like it and it's the in thing to be part of, then you are a follower.
I find it hypocritical that people keep throwing out the "TNA is stupid/horrible/unwatchable" blanket statement crap out, when every week I keep reading people say a bunch of good things about the shows they just watched. IT's like they have no long term memory.
I also read people who slam the shows. Everyone got different opinions. Nothing is universally loved or hated.
Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 20, 2011 15:46:25 GMT -5
And why are people so fixated on getting another wrestling boom? If you haven't noticed, the whole world's economy is horrible. If people don't have the money for something, they won't spend it. Even the almighty UFC is feeling the repercussions.