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Post by Viking Snad on Sept 4, 2012 16:17:52 GMT -5
My thought exactly, lol. I used to be the guy that was like "man I like Davey, why the hate?" Then he stole money from a promoter. Now I don't care about him. (or you, Davey)
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Sept 4, 2012 17:53:09 GMT -5
I haven't seen a lot of his stuff. I had heard him talked about as being a great WRESTLER, so I was excited. He ended up on a live card at Fanfest, and I was disappointed. He had a good "intense" vibe going, so that was cool. But once the bell rang, it was mostly him and the other guy kicking the hell out of each other and not selling anything. I know a lot of guys on the indies do that now, but I don't like it at all.
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Post by unoriginalalex on Sept 4, 2012 18:46:21 GMT -5
I don't hate Davey, I think I just got tired of him (and I believe a lot of people will agree with me here/feel the same way) when he was shoved down the fans throats in ROH. Even though Ring of Honor booking was to blame, I feel like a lot of people took their desire to see something new and turned it into hate towards Davey. Even though I was tired of seeing him in ROH, I still liked watching him in PWG, I can see why other people aren't into him though.
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Post by arrx on Sept 4, 2012 18:51:33 GMT -5
Davey Richards is scum I hope he get AIDS or something. A disgrace to the business is what he his.
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Post by Starshine on Sept 4, 2012 19:10:50 GMT -5
Aids, really?
I can understand not liking the guy for what he did, but this is too much.
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Sept 4, 2012 19:17:46 GMT -5
Davey Richards is scum I hope he get AIDS or something. A disgrace to the business is what he his. C'mon man, I won't argue that he isn't a disgrace to the business in what he did to that promoter. But AIDS? That's too far man, you shouldn't wish that s*** on anyone so I hope this is a joke that I've completely missed.
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Post by neurosis on Sept 4, 2012 19:46:56 GMT -5
AJ Powell, I was under the assumption that Ziggler also used Billy Gunn's old One & Only finisher, or at least a move similar to it. I don't know, I've always seen a lot of similarities in their ring style, even if they don't have the exact same moveset. I remember watching an old Spoony video where he says, "the problem with Dolph is that he's f***ing Billy Gunn", so apparently I'm not the only one to see the connection. Also, none of this changes the point I made, which is that every wrestler steals. I was watching some videos on Youtube and found this in the suggested videos column on the side: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqqq2FR5gMkI had never seen this before and I had to quit watching after 5 minutes because the camerawork was giving me a headache, but it appears to be Davey doing a parody of his super-serious jiu jitsu act. I thought it was funny, and proof that he can play different characters if he wants to. I remember Jericho writing in his book that he sometimes had to play bland face characters he hated doing strictly because the bookers wanted him to play that role, so it's possible Richards is in a similar position. I don't know, I think it's really hard to judge a wrestler based on personality because their careers are so long and they play so many different characters throughout the years. I made the mistake of saying Bret Hart had no personality because I was thinking of his 80's-early 90's stuff, but I was forgetting his post-95 work where he had one of the best personalities in the business. Someone who only knows Adam Cole from ROH might say he's bland, but someone who knows him from CZW might say he's one of the best heels around. I don't really like bashing wrestlers because it's almost impossible to follow their whole career and they always have the possibility to grow at any moment. Ritt, the one thing we disagree on is the logic-emotion aspect. I try to use logic when evaluating art because emotions are too unreliable and fluctuate all the time. For example, I recently watched the movie The Dictator and the logic side of me thought it was terrible, but the emotion side of me laughed and was entertained. When I went to review it, I gave it a bad rating. Why? Because the emotion side of me will love it some days and hate it others, whereas the logic side of me will hate it 24/7 no matter what. Wrestling is an art to me and I do not let emotion cloud my judgment. Lastly, I think this will be my final post here. I don't appreciate being called "Mr. Richards" as if I'm some sort of fanboy stool pigeon. I did not come here saying, "U guyz suck and u need to lay off Davey cuz he's the best!" No, I gave rational, articulate arguments, but what was the point when I'm only going to be insulted by people too lazy to give thought-out responses? For guys like Ritt, carp, and adamafl, I respect your opinions and appreciate your willingness to explain those opinions. Snad, you do realize that pretty much everyone in the wrestling/entertainment industry has done at least one horrible thing in their lives, right? Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl, Varg Vikernes brutally murdered a former band mate, Low Ki purposely knocks people out, Chris Hero tried to steal his student's girlfriend, Jim Neidhart was a well-known thief, and Charles Bukowski was an unpleasant drunk who treated women like garbage. None of this defends Davey's actions, but if you truly want to stand by your convictions, you might as well throw any form of entertainment you have in the trash right now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 19:53:55 GMT -5
Davey lost anything resembling credibility with me after I saw that superplex turned suplex to the outside of the ring, that was the defining moment of suck. Dude brings little to the table.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Sept 4, 2012 19:54:19 GMT -5
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
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Post by Krimzon on Sept 4, 2012 19:56:05 GMT -5
Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl... I believe you mean Jerry Lawler. No, I gave rational, articulate arguments They were also misguided. Saying Hart, Benoit, Samoa Joe, etc. don't have charisma/personality is just plain wrong.
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Post by Talent Name on Sept 4, 2012 20:05:20 GMT -5
The man no sold a tombstone piledriver, among other moves. He takes unnecessary risks and is a waste of space for stealing that money. That is why I make constant jokes about him. I really do hope he retires and joins the navy for the rest of his life
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Sept 4, 2012 20:06:52 GMT -5
The man no sold a tombstone piledriver, among other moves. He takes unnecessary risks and is a waste of space for stealing that money. That is why I make constant jokes about him. I really do hope he retires and joins the navy for the rest of his life Or goes off to be a fireman, or an MMA tomato can, or lives on his grandfather's godforsaken farm, for all I care.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 20:41:08 GMT -5
I have more appreciation for Davey than most around here. I even really enjoyed his ROH PPV matches against Eddie Edwards, just the athletics and endurance someone has to have to put themselves through a match like that. I accept the psychology(or lack thereof) based on the fact that these matches were so big that the two willed themselves to take more damage than they would normally, and it seems like it's only an exclusive dynamic between each other, their matches with everyone else are definitely a lot more settled down in comparison.
What he did on that indy show is shitty but I really do like his matches, I can't lie. He has more charisma than some will give him credit for as well I feel.
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Post by unoriginalalex on Sept 4, 2012 20:52:16 GMT -5
I don't think people were calling you "Mr. Richards" to make fun of you for being a fan boy, I think they were just joking at the idea of you being Davey himself, posting positive things about himself. I hope you do not let a few posters calling you Davey stop you from posting because your posts are very smart sounding... Sorry, I just don't want you to feel like you are not welcome or something just because a couple people were referring to you as Davey.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Sept 4, 2012 20:54:04 GMT -5
Wait.... You gave a movie that entertained you a bad rating? I mean that's the point of movies. Something can be perfect but soulless and not move people it is terrible as an artform. It's like those paintings you see on the walls of hotels. They are perfectly painted but I'll be damned if any of them ever stand out in my mind.
I don't want to be insulting but it comes off as pretentious to make yourself dislike something because it doesn't fit some criteria. Enjoy the guilty pleasures of life man and soak up the fun and entertainment wherever and whenever you can. I love a lot of arthouse flicks but I can still laugh my ass off to Good Burger.
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Post by saintpat on Sept 4, 2012 23:08:13 GMT -5
Here's my take, which may or may not give some insight into why some don't care for him:
To me, it probably has to do to some degree with hype and him being a victim of expectations (at least in my case). There was a point a couple of years ago, give or take, where you couldn't read a thread on the indies that didn't have several posts that gave the impression that DR was the heir apparent to the Punk-Samoa Joe-American Dragon throne as the best guy outside of the major promotions. I don't know that people literally posted that he was the 'it' guy now, but his name and matches more than others seemed to come up.
Now I'm not a guy who orders DVDs, just not my thing. I may look up someone on youtube, but I just haven't gotten into ordering indy shows to see certain matches. But I got the vibe that this guy was really special.
Then I saw him live. First time I think I'd ever really seen him (maybe a youtube clip or something, not sure), and I was kind of hyped (it was an ROH show). And his match was OK, but it struck me as a rather bland MMA style rather than something that made me go oooohhhh, that's what they're talking about. My initial reaction, fair or unfair, was "vanilla midget." I didn't see any charisma, I didn't see seamless moves, I didn't see him make the other guy look great, I didn't see anything that made him stand out as even the top half of the talent on the card.
If he hadn't been hyped, I'd probably remember him as being OK, at best, although the not selling was one of the things that did stick out in my mind.
In short, what little thought I had of Davey after seeing him live was "This is the guy I've been reading about on the internet? Oh well, to each his own."
Then the Sinclair thing started and I saw him on ROH on TV and my opinion solidified into this guy never sells, his matches all seem the same and he really has no personality that I can discern.
Stiffing the promoter made me decide that he's lower than whale sperm, because giving your word and then deciding not only to not keep it but to also deliberately steal from a low-level promoter who's probably barely making it -- and then whining about "disrespect" and how it hurts "the business" when veterans don't get their way or some such nonsense (as opposed to what it does when for the business when wrestlers bully and steal from an indy promoter) brought me to the point that I would never pay to see a show he is on again.
I just don't see what people have seen in him, and I think he's a total tool.
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Post by Error on Sept 4, 2012 23:21:12 GMT -5
I think Davey is a unique case, he has become the John Cena of the indies. He has shown great talent and charisma both in ROH and out but once he got some little bit of success, the powers that be in ROH took the parts that people weren't fond of and made them the focus. Instead of being prick Davey Richards that tears peoples' heads off (American Wolves, NRC, SNS INC.), he was forced into this pseudo MMA/Puro style that doesn't work and the fans rebelled against it. Now when he works indy shots the promotes don't want anything but ROH Main Event Davey since that is what is most famous. He's shown as recently as this past weekend he can change things up and pull off different stuff but promoters don't want it because it won't sell in their minds.
I am not going to defend him being a lying prick outside of business though.
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Post by Chainsaw on Sept 4, 2012 23:28:23 GMT -5
Quite honestly, I used to like Davey for his ring work, especially just before he formed the American Wolves, but I soured on him the more I saw interviews with him, and he came off as more and more like a d-bag who didn't care much about wrestling. Then he seemed to get worse when he became ROH champion, and I feel like he got too full of himself. The whole holdup of the promoter thing was the final straw, especially in the fallout of it, where he seemed to have not learned a damn thing.
At a certain point, someone's personality is going to override their ability, because that's what you really attach to as a fan.
PS any person who states as fact that they gave "rational, articulate arguments" to their point ...did not.
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Post by notasmark on Sept 5, 2012 2:49:04 GMT -5
I like Davey to an extent but he was extremely overrated by the internet for a very long time.
I liked Davey as apart of the American Wolves the matches in 09 they had with Generico and Steen were great. That Ladder match they had was awesome.
Davey isn't money though and he isn't as good as a lot of people used to say. He doesn't have a great in ring personality or presence and he barely plays to the crowd. He's very good for a Japanese audience who appreciates moves more then entertainment value but everywhere else in the world you need charisma and Davey just doesn't have it.
There is no energy in his entrances and he barely plays to the crowd. The OP mentions Dynamite Kid, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit and Samoa Joe as examples of who Davey is similar too, I strongly disagree.
Bret was a decent promo guy and could play to the crowd when needed. He obviously wasn't a massive entertainer but HE could do that.
Same for Benoit, He had a number of moments where he played to the crowd during his matches (Throat slicing taunt anyone?) he wasn't all action
Samoa Joe has a good character to go along with it and he isn't just a wrestler. Joe is really good on the microphone and can show emotion when need be.
I think the best example of who Davey is like is Dean Malenko. Malenko was a very good wrestler but had no charisma just like Davey. Malenko I think had a successful career but look at his peers. You got a WWE Hall of Famer in Eddie Guerrero who was Malenko's peer for a long time you also have Benoit who had a very successful career.
Malenko was a midcard guy usually in the Cruiserweight division. The bigger promotions in the world (At least in America) have phased that out and it isn't popular anymore. One could make the argument that Davey could get a run in TNA but look at all the charismatic smaller guys TNA has.
Davey is going to be one of those guys stuck in the Indies forever. Unless he re-invents himself I can see him being like those old ECW guys who are running around the indies for a couple hundred bucks a hit trying to live off merchandise money and occasional indy dates living off the fame of being big in the biggest indy for the era.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 5, 2012 4:03:56 GMT -5
Gunn's One & Only: A Cobra clutch slam where he uses his strength to hoist you up & slam you
The Zig Zag: A leaping reverse bulldog where he uses his weight to drag his opponent down.
So yeah, not much similarity apart from being from behind chief. Also, Spoony ain't the most reliable person to choose as a source.
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