Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,397
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Post by Legion on Oct 4, 2012 11:12:20 GMT -5
They got me.
With all the extra people, this is going on the Christmas list. That way all I pay for is the DLC.
Bargain.
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CH Punk
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Advice: Noted
Stuck in the Retro Zone
Posts: 15,570
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Post by CH Punk on Oct 4, 2012 11:12:39 GMT -5
The models being finished doesn't necessarily mean every aspect of them is complete. It takes around 3-4 months just to finish the character model. After that, they still have to figure in entrance animations, victory animations, themes, moves, commentary, introductions, crowd chants, signs, minitrons, general integration into the main game, and whatever bugs/glitches they encounter in testing. That's a lot of work. Magnify it x21 and you start to see how much manpower & time goes into everything. It seems fishy to me that in SVR2K7 they could have Umaga and The Great Khali in the game at launch despite them debuting in April, whilst Tensai, Ryback and Damien Sandow are not. There's no excuse with Tensai being DLC, because they must have known he was going to be a big deal since he beat Cena in April, which was nearly 6 months ago. It just seems like they've purposely removed these guys just for the sake of selling them later. And that still doesn't answer anything about why Fan Axcess only saves 10%, why moves and belts are DLC, why they've announced all the DLC before the game is even released etc. SVR 2007 had 68 superstars in total, WWE '13 has 84 (105 with the DLC) meaning that they were probably working on Attitude Era guys in April. Also, the reduced saving is probably because they need all the money they can get from what they lost on U-Draw (which almost killed THQ).
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 4, 2012 11:16:54 GMT -5
The models being finished doesn't necessarily mean every aspect of them is complete. It takes around 3-4 months just to finish the character model. After that, they still have to figure in entrance animations, victory animations, themes, moves, commentary, introductions, crowd chants, signs, minitrons, general integration into the main game, and whatever bugs/glitches they encounter in testing. That's a lot of work. Magnify it x21 and you start to see how much manpower & time goes into everything. It seems fishy to me that in SVR2K7 they could have Umaga and The Great Khali in the game at launch despite them debuting in April, whilst Tensai, Ryback and Damien Sandow are not. There's no excuse with Tensai being DLC, because they must have known he was going to be a big deal since he beat Cena in April, which was nearly 6 months ago. It just seems like they've purposely removed these guys just for the sake of selling them later. And that still doesn't answer anything about why Fan Axcess only saves 10%, why moves and belts are DLC, why they've announced all the DLC before the game is even released etc. SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 was 6 years ago. They have made HUGE strides in the graphics department. It didn't require as much work as it does now. As for that other part, I couldn't tell you. I don't work for them. I don't know their reasoning. There could be any number of factors. And to be frank, this time fans shouldn't be complaining about potentially paying them more money. THQ is seriously struggling right now. They NEED this game to bring in a lot of cash. If it doesn't, there may not be a WWE '14. That's why I'm not harping on the $20 price tag for Axxess. They kinda need the money in the worst way.
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Post by WarChief on Oct 4, 2012 11:18:05 GMT -5
If they need the money so bad, there's no reason they should've cut out 20 current roster guys.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 4, 2012 11:18:54 GMT -5
If they need the money so bad, there's no reason they should've cut out 20 current roster guys. Except to make room for the wrestlers needed for their period piece game...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 11:19:09 GMT -5
BTW, does anyone feel bad for JTG and Curt Hawkins?
At least Rosa's still never going to appear.
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Oct 4, 2012 11:26:18 GMT -5
If they need the money so bad, there's no reason they should've cut out 20 current roster guys. I'm sorry, but what is likely to attract more/new buyers? 20 mid/undercard guys that half the people will actually want to use, or 30+ or so Attitude era guys that are going to get nostalgia buys? Not everyone who buys these games are the hardcore fans we are, many of this games demographic is going to be the casual older fans who remember these guys and maybe want to relive the days when they played No Mercy/Wrestlemania 2000 when they were big fans at the time. JTG and Mason Ryan won't sell copies of the game.
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Oct 4, 2012 11:27:15 GMT -5
Flapjack/Cutter Combo? Does that mean they've brought back the 3D?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 11:27:20 GMT -5
It seems fishy to me that in SVR2K7 they could have Umaga and The Great Khali in the game at launch despite them debuting in April, whilst Tensai, Ryback and Damien Sandow are not. There's no excuse with Tensai being DLC, because they must have known he was going to be a big deal since he beat Cena in April, which was nearly 6 months ago. It just seems like they've purposely removed these guys just for the sake of selling them later. And that still doesn't answer anything about why Fan Axcess only saves 10%, why moves and belts are DLC, why they've announced all the DLC before the game is even released etc. SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 was 6 years ago. They have made HUGE strides in the graphics department. It didn't require as much work as it does now. As for that other part, I couldn't tell you. I don't work for them. I don't know their reasoning. There could be any number of factors. And to be frank, this time fans shouldn't be complaining about potentially paying them more money. THQ is seriously struggling right now. They NEED this game to bring in a lot of cash. If it doesn't, there may not be a WWE '14. That's why I'm not harping on the $20 price tag for Axxess. They kinda need the money in the worst way. Wait wait wait, hold up. So THQ is doing poorly, through their OWN INCOMPETANCE, and it wasn't even a year ago that people were complaining because THQ royally screwed the online play in WWE'12 by failing to fix it for six months. And yet its OK for them to charge so much, to take stuff out of the game and re-sell it, to have day one DLC, and the fans are supposed to like it and not complain because 'poor THQ needs our money'. Screw that. WWE is a popular game franchise and I'm willing to bet that plenty of developers would be willing to pick it up if THQ went out of business. Is the gaming industry really so messed up that we should just pay $20 for DLC every year just because this corporation 'needs' our money, even though its their fault in the first place and their in the position their in?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 11:30:06 GMT -5
SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 was 6 years ago. They have made HUGE strides in the graphics department. It didn't require as much work as it does now. As for that other part, I couldn't tell you. I don't work for them. I don't know their reasoning. There could be any number of factors. And to be frank, this time fans shouldn't be complaining about potentially paying them more money. THQ is seriously struggling right now. They NEED this game to bring in a lot of cash. If it doesn't, there may not be a WWE '14. That's why I'm not harping on the $20 price tag for Axxess. They kinda need the money in the worst way. Wait wait wait, hold up. So THQ is doing poorly, through their OWN INCOMPETANCE, and it wasn't even a year ago that people were complaining because THQ royally screwed the online play in WWE'12 by failing to fix it for six months. And yet its OK for them to charge so much, to take stuff out of the game and re-sell it, to have day one DLC, and the fans are supposed to like it and not complain because 'poor THQ needs our money'. Screw that. WWE is a popular game franchise and I'm willing to bet that plenty of developers would be willing to pick it up if THQ went out of business. Is the gaming industry really so messed up that we should just pay $20 for DLC every year just because this corporation 'needs' our money, even though its their fault in the first place and their in the position their in? Good post.
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Oct 4, 2012 11:34:45 GMT -5
SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 was 6 years ago. They have made HUGE strides in the graphics department. It didn't require as much work as it does now. As for that other part, I couldn't tell you. I don't work for them. I don't know their reasoning. There could be any number of factors. And to be frank, this time fans shouldn't be complaining about potentially paying them more money. THQ is seriously struggling right now. They NEED this game to bring in a lot of cash. If it doesn't, there may not be a WWE '14. That's why I'm not harping on the $20 price tag for Axxess. They kinda need the money in the worst way. Wait wait wait, hold up. So THQ is doing poorly, through their OWN INCOMPETANCE, and it wasn't even a year ago that people were complaining because THQ royally screwed the online play in WWE'12 by failing to fix it for six months. And yet its OK for them to charge so much, to take stuff out of the game and re-sell it, to have day one DLC, and the fans are supposed to like it and not complain because 'poor THQ needs our money'. Screw that. WWE is a popular game franchise and I'm willing to bet that plenty of developers would be willing to pick it up if THQ went out of business. Is the gaming industry really so messed up that we should just pay $20 for DLC every year just because this corporation 'needs' our money, even though its their fault in the first place and their in the position their in? The whole "take stuff out so you can sell it as DLC" argument is a tricky area. Only SO MUCH can go on the disc. And to me its the lesser of two evils: Stick with THQ and a trusted system that I like despite its faults, or go with a new company that could very well take 3 years to set up a quality game/know what they are doing etc etc. There isn't even a guarantee that companies like EA or Activision would even pick up the license. If you think the current DLC is ridiculous, you'd be much worse off with how those companies handle DLC. THQ is offering A LOT this year. No way it could all fit on the disc. 105 wrestlers (with the current modeling engine)? Its ridiculous how much we are getting and in my eyes, and several other peoples eyes, its more than a square deal.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 4, 2012 11:35:06 GMT -5
SmackDown vs. Raw 2007 was 6 years ago. They have made HUGE strides in the graphics department. It didn't require as much work as it does now. As for that other part, I couldn't tell you. I don't work for them. I don't know their reasoning. There could be any number of factors. And to be frank, this time fans shouldn't be complaining about potentially paying them more money. THQ is seriously struggling right now. They NEED this game to bring in a lot of cash. If it doesn't, there may not be a WWE '14. That's why I'm not harping on the $20 price tag for Axxess. They kinda need the money in the worst way. Wait wait wait, hold up. So THQ is doing poorly, through their OWN INCOMPETANCE, and it wasn't even a year ago that people were complaining because THQ royally screwed the online play in WWE'12 by failing to fix it for six months. And yet its OK for them to charge so much, to take stuff out of the game and re-sell it, to have day one DLC, and the fans are supposed to like it and not complain because 'poor THQ needs our money'. Screw that. WWE is a popular game franchise and I'm willing to bet that plenty of developers would be willing to pick it up if THQ went out of business. Is the gaming industry really so messed up that we should just pay $20 for DLC every year just because this corporation 'needs' our money, even though its their fault in the first place and their in the position their in? There's a world of difference between breaking a key mode of the game and optional content. Anything they removed from the game, they replaced with something else. It's not like they stripped away everything that made the game work. If you don't like their practices, don't get the DLC. It's that simple. This isn't a Capcom situation. It's not a deliberate money grab. Everything is not already on the disc. A lot has still yet to be finished.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 11:43:51 GMT -5
The whole "take stuff out so you can sell it as DLC" argument is a tricky area. Only SO MUCH can go on the disc. And to me its the lesser of two evils: Stick with THQ and a trusted system that I like despite its faults, or go with a new company that could very well take 3 years to set up a quality game/know what they are doing etc etc. There isn't even a guarantee that companies like EA or Activision would even pick up the license. If you think the current DLC is ridiculous, you'd be much worse off with how those companies handle DLC.THQ is offering A LOT this year. No way it could all fit on the disc. 105 wrestlers (with the current modeling engine)? Its ridiculous how much we are getting and in my eyes, and several other peoples eyes, its more than a square deal. Hang on. Haven't people for YEARS now been saying that they want THQ and Yukes to stop releasing games every year, and instead take 2-3 years out so they can produce a really great and polished wrestling game again? Do customers NEED a wrestling game every year now because their so impatient and need constant satisfaction or something? And that second bolded point. Again, is the gaming industry so bad now that we should except this DLC just because 'well its bad, but at least its not THAT bad'. Lame. And what people seem to be forgetting is that yes, there are 105 wrestlers (which is impressive), but most of the current stars have re-used models, move-sets and entrances from last year. So in reality their not adding 105 'new' wrestlers, its only about half that.
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Post by stevieboy on Oct 4, 2012 11:51:16 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the argument. While I think THQ's later games are better than they get credit for a 2 year gap would be nice cause otherwise you get games like WWE '12. A game once ever 2 years with DLC support to cover the gap would be a better a idea IMHO.
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Oct 4, 2012 11:53:19 GMT -5
The whole "take stuff out so you can sell it as DLC" argument is a tricky area. Only SO MUCH can go on the disc. And to me its the lesser of two evils: Stick with THQ and a trusted system that I like despite its faults, or go with a new company that could very well take 3 years to set up a quality game/know what they are doing etc etc. There isn't even a guarantee that companies like EA or Activision would even pick up the license. If you think the current DLC is ridiculous, you'd be much worse off with how those companies handle DLC.THQ is offering A LOT this year. No way it could all fit on the disc. 105 wrestlers (with the current modeling engine)? Its ridiculous how much we are getting and in my eyes, and several other peoples eyes, its more than a square deal. Hang on. Haven't people for YEARS now been saying that they want THQ and Yukes to stop releasing games every year, and instead take 2-3 years out so they can produce a really great and polished wrestling game again? Do customers NEED a wrestling game every year now because their so impatient and need constant satisfaction or something? And that second bolded point. Again, is the gaming industry so bad now that we should except this DLC just because 'well its bad, but at least its not THAT bad'. Lame. And what people seem to be forgetting is that yes, there are 105 wrestlers (which is impressive), but most of the current stars have re-used models, move-sets and entrances from last year. So in reality their not adding 105 'new' wrestlers, its only about half that. I'm not saying other people don't want that, I specifically said it was the lesser of two evils for myself. I have had very little problems with the franchise as a whole. Do I wish the submission system was different? Sure, but it doesn't ruin the fun I have with this series. Plus I know there are people like me. And the 105 wrestlers was a specific data point. I never said 105 "new" wrestlers. The fact we have 105 is what is stunning, I could care less if current guys have reused stuff. Its the fact they are managing to give me MORE. I can update moves. I can update entrances. What I can't do, is model new wrestlers believably, program new moves, and create authentic old arenas. And yes, some of us like having a new game every year. Call me a sucker, because I also tend to buy the new Madden every year, but I would rather have a year-year a half cycle rather than every three years. Technology advances so fast these days that its not ridiculous to think of the advances you can make in a year, or the tweaks that can be made to a current engine. The DLC model for this game is not terrible in the slightest. The release dates for the certain packs could certainly be rearranged, but its a business model that I can't fault them for just because I want certain people for than others. I'm entitled to nothing but a game on October 30th. But look what other companies do, and they nickle and dime you for things that logistically could have been in the game. 30 something new character models could not be made during the development cycle, with the man power they had, to accomplish the things they needed to get done before the game went gold. And after that happened they have given us MOST of the wrestlers would could want, specifically most of the new debuts. (Edit: PTP is the only new debut that I couldn't really think of) Sure Kidd isn't in the game, or PTP, but you know what, I have such a large roster that it racks my mind on how I would possibly use them outside of a one-off exhibition match, never to use them again.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 4, 2012 11:57:16 GMT -5
Again, if you don't like DLC practices, don't get it. Nobody holds a gun to your head and forces you to get it. A lot of people use that argument and it makes a lot of people angry, but at the end of the day, that's the crux of the matter. It's optional. If you don't like having to pay an extra $20 for additional content, don't. No crucial items were taken out, and you'll still get Layla & Taker's Ministry attire for free.
Aside from that, you can pick and choose who you want to get at $0.99 a pop, the moves for $1.99, and the belts for $1.99. That way, you can customize your own DLC pack and wind up paying less than $20.00.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 12:05:26 GMT -5
There's a world of difference between breaking a key mode of the game and optional content. Anything they removed from the game, they replaced with something else. It's not like they stripped away everything that made the game work. If you don't like their practices, don't get the DLC. It's that simple. This isn't a Capcom situation. It's not a deliberate money grab. Everything is not already on the disc. A lot has still yet to be finished. I'm sorry, but for me I can't sympathize with THQ here. The amount of glitches in WWE'12 is ridiculous at times, and the online being broken for over six months is almost unforgivable. The funny thing is that the online play for UFC Undisputed was also broken, so THQ didn't learn their lesson. And talking of stuff being stripped away, how about GM Mode and create-a-belt? Or all those moves which have been removed over the past few years from the move-set list? Or how there's barely any alt attires anymore? I know its not game breaking stuff but its still being removed and it sucks. And how do you even know that its not finished? You just said that you don't know what they're doing, so how do you now their not deliberately holding back content? Aside from that, you can pick and choose who you want to get at $0.99 a pop, the moves for $1.99, and the belts for $1.99. That way, you can customize your own DLC pack and wind up paying less than $20.00. Apart from DDP and Goldust, which if you want them, you HAVE to pay $20 for them. And you also can't buy specific belts or moves, you have to buy them in one bundle.
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Post by WarChief on Oct 4, 2012 12:11:58 GMT -5
After the abortion of effort we got from them last year, THQ should have made a public, written apology to their customers for the bullshit they put us through.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Oct 4, 2012 12:13:10 GMT -5
And talking of stuff being stripped away, how about GM Mode and create-a-belt? Or all those moves which have been removed over the past few years from the move-set list? Or how there's barely any alt attires anymore? I know its not game breaking stuff but its still being removed and it sucks. And how do you even know that its not finished? You just said that you don't know what they're doing, so how do you now their not deliberately holding back content? GM Mode & Create-A-Belt are modes that were removed seemingly for good. They didn't do away with them and bring them back after charging people more. It also goes to show what I was talking about. They remove GM Mode and introduce Universe Mode. They removed Create-A-Belt and introduce Create-A-Finisher and added a lot of new belts to somewhat compensate. They still give people alternate attires, but they also introduced Superstar Threads, letting you make 3 alternate attires yourself. As for that last bit, I'm using last year as precedent. They showed off Randy Savage before he was 100% finished and that was well after the game's release.
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Oct 4, 2012 13:36:25 GMT -5
We need a sticky for this thing.
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