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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 27, 2012 21:11:51 GMT -5
Which is dumb, as Ock already had those memories in the story anyway; so that ending doesn't even really make sense, especially since he's mainly gonna be a hero for ego's sake.
That's something Peter learned doesn't work back in Amazing Fantasy #15.
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Post by Mike Wooster on Dec 27, 2012 21:20:02 GMT -5
Peter Parker does not go out like a bitch at the end of #700. He won. He stopped the villain by convincing him to become a hero. he's still dead. and as someone else said Peter probably ends up going back to being Spider-man in a few months and Otto goes back to being a megalomaniac because comics. the only time redemption works is for minor C level villains like Thunderbolts. and on top of that in the meantime Otto goes and rapes MJ, the first lady of Marvel love interests. yes, it is rape. she doesn't know he's not Peter, it's rape. So because he died saving the day that makes him a failure? Peter overcame impossible odds and beat the bad guy. That's what heroes do. Redemption only works for C level villains? Don't tell that to Catwoman or Magneto. As for MJ, everyone needs to put their rape whistles away until we see how things play out in the story instead of our imaginations, because as of right now it hasn't happened.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 21:20:39 GMT -5
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BedTrick for those who don't understand why so many people have a problem with this. it also includes the Chameleon example, and another example explaining why Mary Jane would never fall for it in the first place. also, for those of you who've never been to TVtropes before... I'm so sorry for what I've done to you.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 27, 2012 21:25:23 GMT -5
he's still dead. and as someone else said Peter probably ends up going back to being Spider-man in a few months and Otto goes back to being a megalomaniac because comics. the only time redemption works is for minor C level villains like Thunderbolts. and on top of that in the meantime Otto goes and rapes MJ, the first lady of Marvel love interests. yes, it is rape. she doesn't know he's not Peter, it's rape. So because he died saving the day that makes him a failure? Peter overcame impossible odds and beat the bad guy. That's what heroes do. Redemption only works for C level villains? Don't tell that to Catwoman or Magneto. As for MJ, everyone needs to put their rape whistles away until we see how things play out in the story instead of our imaginations, because as of right now it hasn't happened. first, it's debateable that Magneto's face turn ever took. hell, he basically joined the X-men because he thinks Cyclops is an even bigger jackass than him and wanted to be part of it. there's a damn good reason he's always a bad guy when he appears in other media. I have friends who still react with disbelief when I tell them Magneto joined the X-men. second, I'm hoping that by pre-emptively explaining why we hope this doesn't happen to MJ we're able to make Dan Slott think REALLY HARD before he does anything skeevy. I think the idea of Otto running around in Peter's body is actually an interesting idea, but there are certain things that SHOULD NOT HAPPEN in a Spider-man comic. there's certainly a place for this kind of thing in comics (hell, Deadpool of all places used it to GREAT effect during Joe Kelly's classic run, and Alan Moore used it in Swamp Thing as well). this just isn't something that should happen in Spider-man. I mean, Spider-man should be a comic I can go to for light fun entertainment, not a place I go to to read the writer wallowing in something miserable.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 27, 2012 21:25:39 GMT -5
Peter didn't beat the bad guy though. Evil wasnt punished, it was literally given a new lease on life.
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Post by Mike Wooster on Dec 27, 2012 21:31:18 GMT -5
Which is dumb, as Ock already had those memories in the story anyway; so that ending doesn't even really make sense, especially since he's mainly gonna be a hero for ego's sake. That's something Peter learned doesn't work back in Amazing Fantasy #15. Ock may have had the memories, but Peter forced him to confront them. They became more than just background noise. So it does make sense; at least as much as a convoluted plot involving brainwave pattern transfers can anyway. And as for whether or not Ock can live up to his promise of being the "superior" Spider-man, or if his own arrogance will trip him up, we don't know yet.
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Post by Mike Wooster on Dec 27, 2012 21:36:52 GMT -5
Peter didn't beat the bad guy though. Evil wasnt punished, it was literally given a new lease on life. Of course Peter beat him. Ock was planning on being a selfish prick doing god knows what. Now he's going to have to be responsible. Its the biggest victory a superhero can get over a villain.
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Thaal Sinestro
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Post by Thaal Sinestro on Dec 27, 2012 21:54:37 GMT -5
I just want to see what happens when he meets DareDevil next month. That should really be something.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 28, 2012 0:07:20 GMT -5
Peter didn't beat the bad guy though. Evil wasnt punished, it was literally given a new lease on life. Of course Peter beat him. Ock was planning on being a selfish prick doing god knows what. Now he's going to have to be responsible. Its the biggest victory a superhero can get over a villain. Peter may have "died", but he at least managed to put the kibosh on Ock running around carte blanche with his powers and being a villain.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 28, 2012 10:03:14 GMT -5
I just want to see what happens when he meets DareDevil next month. That should really be something. Is that going to be in a Spidey comic or are they wasting an issue of Daredevil on it? Keep the crummy Spidey ideas in the Spidey books, not the good books!
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 28, 2012 10:33:02 GMT -5
I just want to see what happens when he meets DareDevil next month. That should really be something. Is that going to be in a Spidey comic or are they wasting an issue of Daredevil on it? Keep the crummy Spidey ideas in the Spidey books, not the good books! it's happening in Daredevil. it's actually Otto's first story as Spider-man. sorry.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 28, 2012 14:12:55 GMT -5
I'll concede the point that " at least Peter stopped Ock from running murderously wild in his body"; but that's still a Pyrrhic victory and not really a triumph for the hero.
Him triumphing would be getting bodies switched back, and Otto dying as he should have; not the villain 'winning', even if it is slightly less of a win than it woulda been initially.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 28, 2012 14:25:20 GMT -5
I'm willing to read this out to see if there's another way out for Peter. (And you just know there will be.)
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 28, 2012 14:33:02 GMT -5
Oh yeah, there's all sorts of outs.
I won't be reading it cuz I've not been interested in the Spidey titles since One More Day ( as I said, I picked this up outta curiosity, and some weird 'dedication' to Amazing), and this development in no way made me wanna read more.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 28, 2012 14:37:29 GMT -5
I'm willing to read this out to see if there's another way out for Peter. (And you just know there will be.) You're willing to wait and see how the story develops despite knowing Peter will eventually be back and Ock will probably actually end up dead, but with a heroes death having learnt a lesson and possibly even undone by a plan of his own? Don't be so silly. Pick up that pitchfork!
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 28, 2012 14:43:27 GMT -5
Eh, just because you have no interest in a storyline you don't care for doesn't really make you one of the pitchfork and torches crowd.
If it was consider me the most apathetic rioter ever, where I pick up the pitchfork from the ground half-heartedly, then set it back down and go back inside.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 28, 2012 14:52:25 GMT -5
It just strikes me as similar to the whole criticism of things we see in WWE Current.
People constantly bitch that nothing ever changes and that stories are drawn out and dull and are the same story over and over and then when something new does come along....it isnt really what people want and so should be shot down (and the weirdos call for death and whatever) and people swear off things....and then likely end up back anyway.
Just go with it. With comics, with WWE, with pretty much everything....just go with it. I find I enjoy things more when I let go of rage over things I have absolutely zero control over.
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 28, 2012 15:07:07 GMT -5
I'll concede the point that " at least Peter stopped Ock from running murderously wild in his body"; but that's still a Pyrrhic victory and not really a triumph for the hero. Him triumphing would be getting bodies switched back, and Otto dying as he should have; not the villain 'winning', even if it is slightly less of a win than it woulda been initially. Also, isn't Spidey more powerful than Ock, even at his youngest? It really seems more like trading a hummer for a tank.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 15:13:32 GMT -5
It just strikes me as similar to the whole criticism of things we see in WWE Current. People constantly bitch that nothing ever changes and that stories are drawn out and dull and are the same story over and over and then when something new does come along....it isnt really what people want and so should be shot down (and the weirdos call for death and whatever) and people swear off things....and then likely end up back anyway. Just go with it. With comics, with WWE, with pretty much everything....just go with it. I find I enjoy things more when I let go of rage over things I have absolutely zero control over. I agree and think that mentality is actually hurting the main DC/Marvel comics at times. People get incredibly mad at the idea of Batman NOT being Bruce Wayne. I mean, it's been over 70 years with the same dude! On the flip side, it doesn't help that they always take back whatever changes they make a year later...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 16:00:40 GMT -5
Oh yeah, there's all sorts of outs. I won't be reading it cuz I've not been interested in the Spidey titles since One More Day ( as I said, I picked this up outta curiosity, and some weird 'dedication' to Amazing), and this development in no way made me wanna read more. I was not a fan of the One More Day "rebootesque" changes - or rather, the need on Marvel's part for the changes - but a lot of ASM post-OMD has been rather good. I've liked Dan Slott as a writer in the past (BATMAN ADVENTURES, SHE-HULK) and he's apparently done good enough to make me a monthly reader again. And as the years have progressed, I have most certainly "grown up" from the fanboy rage. There was a day, for certain comics, when I would've been harping on and on and getting ticked off over comic book developments. It was around the time they killed off all the New Gods *and* Quasar (2 of my favorite comic book things) in a year's span.......and it really didn't phase me. Of course I must snarkily add to the fanboyz-gone-wild side for a moment: {Spoiler}they thought a married Peter Parker was too limiting and unreasonable for the character, but a dead Peter Parker was better?
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