agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,245
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Post by agent817 on Dec 2, 2012 18:36:53 GMT -5
I have heard of this term. Where a second or third generation wrestler who has a much more famous father and fans feel that the wrestler's son doesn't live up to his father.
Some have said that David Sammartino didn't compare to his father. Same with David Flair. I am not sure how Reid fares as wrestler.
Ted DiBiase seems to suffer from this but I really don't think he is bad. Maybe not as good on the mic as Ted Sr, but he is good in the ring.
Do you actually agree with this term at all?
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Post by notasmark on Dec 2, 2012 18:54:06 GMT -5
If your father is an icon yes.
David Flair wasn't really terrible. He did a good brawl and was a good actor with the whole "Crazy" thing but he's terrible in comparison to his dad.
The fans expect a lot more because they have the guidance of these legendary guys.
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Post by YiHammer on Dec 2, 2012 18:54:54 GMT -5
Shawn Stasiak
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Dec 2, 2012 19:01:42 GMT -5
Unless you try to COMPLETELY distance yourself from your father, you don't have much of a chance. Some of the best second and third generation superstars are the ones who are nothing like their father;
Mr. Perfect The Rock Randy Orton Goldust Cody Rhodes
Then you have guys who almost bank on their family image...and IMO...it does not work;
David Sammartino (he may have had a chance, if daddy didn't involve himself so much) David Flair Ted Dibiase Jr. The Hart Dynasty (I'll get heat for saying this, but using the colors, music and finishers doesn't get you over) Michael McGuilicutty and Husky Harris (they tried to distance them, but to be fair...they're less than average, even by WWE standards)
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
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Post by Squirrel Master on Dec 2, 2012 19:02:36 GMT -5
Bruno's son was horrible in both skills and attitude. Even as a kid I wondered what the hell he was doing on my TV screen. With regards to the "syndrome", I quote Law 41 from "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene. By the way, I recommend that everybody read this book.
Law 41: Avoid Stepping Into A Great Man's Shoes What happens first always appears better and more original than what comes after. If you succeed a great man or have a famous parent, you will have to accomplish double their achievements to outshine them. Do not get lost in their shadow, or stuck in a past not of your own making: Establish your own name and identity by changing course. Slay the overbearing father, disparage his legacy, and gain power by shining in your own way.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 2, 2012 20:02:56 GMT -5
David Flair honestly was never that good at all. The natural talent just was not there, nor was the drive. I always got the impression that his heart was just not completely into it, and that the only reason he got into it at all was because he felt it was expected of him. As I recall, he had wanted to do other things, but got into wrestling because everyone around him encouraged it. I think this is the truth with a number of the other examples that have been made; a son who was never all that interested in wrestling, but got into it because it was just expected they would. If they never wanted to do it at all, you can't expect them to really be any good.
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Post by kamero00 on Dec 2, 2012 21:18:33 GMT -5
When you a forced to be a similar character as your father, it just makes it that much harder.
Cody, Randy, and The Rock are completely different from their fathers.
Ted jr WAS his fathers character.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 2, 2012 22:54:23 GMT -5
Law 41: Avoid Stepping Into A Great Man's Shoes What happens first always appears better and more original than what comes after. If you succeed a great man or have a famous parent, you will have to accomplish double their achievements to outshine them. Do not get lost in their shadow, or stuck in a past not of your own making: Establish your own name and identity by changing course. Slay the overbearing father, disparage his legacy, and gain power by shining in your own way. I think that's something I try to do quite a bit. Granted, I'm never gonna be named one of the best, if not the best, auto mechanic in the U.S., but I feel I've lived up to him with the way I've gone through life. Plus, on the racing side, I think I've done pretty well. He has 8 track championships, I have 6. Not too shabby.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 3, 2012 3:39:04 GMT -5
Fans have higher expectations of the 2nd/3rd generation guys.
If two wrestlers, one who has a famous father in the business and one who doesn't, both achieve the same accomplishments and are booked at the same level of the card, the 2nd generation guy will be viewed as a "failure".
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 3, 2012 4:14:36 GMT -5
David Sammartino was terrible but Vince desperately wanted to keep Bruno around. He hired his son and was always promise Bruno he had a great angle for David if Bruno would come back to help sell it. He really had no business as high up the card as he was as soon as he was.
David Flair also never should have been where he was and is I feel, very unfairly maligned. If he was just a random kid who they slotted into the role with so little training he would have been a great. His acting and selling were very good. His offense and ringwork were very very green.
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Post by notasmark on Dec 3, 2012 4:29:45 GMT -5
Fans have higher expectations of the 2nd/3rd generation guys. If two wrestlers, one who has a famous father in the business and one who doesn't, both achieve the same accomplishments and are booked at the same level of the card, the 2nd generation guy will be viewed as a "failure". I agree, David Flair and Crowbar are good examples Crowbar: WCW Tag, WCW Cruiserweight, WCW Hardcore David: WCW US, WCW Tag, NWA Tag Crowbar is seen as having a successful big time career, David Flair is seen as a failure.
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Post by joebob27 on Dec 3, 2012 5:43:52 GMT -5
I thought David Flair was somewhat mediocre, but really what everyone is going to remember him for was the segment with 'Taker and there's no recovering from that.
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Post by notasmark on Dec 3, 2012 7:07:34 GMT -5
I thought David Flair was somewhat mediocre, but really what everyone is going to remember him for was the segment with 'Taker and there's no recovering from that. He had a much better year and a half run in WCW. He had feuds with Ric Flair and Buff Bagwell and his "Who's the father" story line was pretty big time in WCW for many months. He was also apart of the nWo. His WCW run is a lot more memorable than a 5-6 minute beat down segment in the WWF.
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dbostick
Trap-Jaw
Damn these contacts!
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Post by dbostick on Dec 3, 2012 8:10:45 GMT -5
Nobody will ever be as bad as David Flair. The poor kid couldn't even hit the ropes right, all his matches looked choreographed, Stacy Keibler deflowered his wiener and he looked like he had hot coffee thrown on his face all the time.
As far as who has David Flair syndrome, DiBiase Jr. instantly comes to mind. He exemplifies what is wrong with WWE right now (cookie cutter look) and he absolutely blows on the mic, not even comparing him to his superior Dad.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Dec 3, 2012 8:58:41 GMT -5
Fans have higher expectations of the 2nd/3rd generation guys. If two wrestlers, one who has a famous father in the business and one who doesn't, both achieve the same accomplishments and are booked at the same level of the card, the 2nd generation guy will be viewed as a "failure". I agree, David Flair and Crowbar are good examples Crowbar: WCW Tag, WCW Cruiserweight, WCW Hardcore David: WCW US, WCW Tag, NWA Tag Crowbar is seen as having a successful big time career, David Flair is seen as a failure. I think it comes down to what a wrestler demonstrates in the ring rather than the titles he/she earns. I consider Crowbar's wrestling career greater than David Flair's since I remember Crowbar having good matches. Most recently, he and Jerry Lynn tore the house down at an ECW reunion show (thus saving the show from being a total bust).
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 3, 2012 11:35:16 GMT -5
David Flair was a guy you can tell had no interest in being a wrestler, but they wanted a new way to humiliate Ric so brought in his son to get whipped and to look bad, paying him a tonne of money for the privilege. Can't blame David for saying 'Yes please' to the silly money WCW were throwing about at that time.
I really do believe that people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to second/third generation workers these days, people expect them to be everything their parents were at the peak of their career from the very beginning and dub them terrible when they aren't confident and over from the off. A guy like Curt Hennig had years to hone his skills and had his father around to help with his training and pass on his knowledge, Michael McGillicutty did not so you have to cut the guy some slack, he's no worse than most of the other guys on the roster with his level of experience.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 3, 2012 11:41:46 GMT -5
If your father is an icon yes. David Flair wasn't really terrible. He did a good brawl and was a good actor with the whole "Crazy" thing but he's terrible in comparison to his dad. Seconded.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,245
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Post by agent817 on Dec 3, 2012 11:42:23 GMT -5
Okay, what about the likes of Shaul Guerrero (or Raquel Diaz)? I haven't seen her in action but from what people have said on here, she does not live up to family name. Is that true?
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 3, 2012 11:55:19 GMT -5
I remember Putski being kinda a disappointment.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 3, 2012 12:10:44 GMT -5
Okay, what about the likes of Shaul Guerrero (or Raquel Diaz)? I haven't seen her in action but from what people have said on here, she does not live up to family name. Is that true? she started out fine as a manager, but when FCW pushed her as the greatest woman ever that's where her lack of experience really showed through. As for David Flair, he and Crowbar were an entertaining team. Ted Jr got signed and brought up to the WWE way too early. His older brother Mike was talented but never got signed. I like the approach that Harry Smith and Richie Steamboat took in gaining more experience before being signed. Harry just doesn't have great charisma (and excels as a tag guy). I think Richie has more personality than given credit for.
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