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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 8, 2012 0:08:27 GMT -5
I really hope Johnny Football wins it. There still some old fogies who won't vote for him, period, (as in even put him on their ballot) because of his freshman status. But his body of work is amazing. Though it was hilarious hearing all the obvious Notre Dame fans call up sports radio shows trying to jump through hoops to explain why Manziel shouldn't win. All of their reasons were laughably bad and had logic holes you could drive a semi through. I really like the way Manti Teo plays, but he's not good enough to win the Heisman over Manziel. Not even close. There have been far better defensive players that deserved to win over Teo over the years and didn't. Im pretty sure Manziel will win, but the argument being that there are better players that deserved to win but didn't is kinda weak. There were other QB's like Harrel and McCoy who had better years then Manziel did this year, but that does not mean they should have won. Hell Tim Couch in 1998 had about equal or better year than Manziel and did not win. Just because there are good players that did not win in the past at that position does not mean that he should not get it. Will he? Probably not, Manziel has it pretty much in the bag. But the argument that X did not get it so Y should not is a weak reason, just like no Fish or no D players.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Dec 8, 2012 0:13:08 GMT -5
If you break the records that Tebow and Cam had set and they won it that year. you should win the award
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Post by MGH on Dec 8, 2012 0:19:32 GMT -5
My biggest problem with Teo is that his campaign almost seems more hype based than production based. He is having a great year for a linebacker, but the problem is so are other guys. Teo's INTs are what set him apart, but statistically he isn't significantly better than another line backer on an undefeated team from this season, and that's Ryan Shazier from Ohio State. Shazier even has a defensive TD to his name this season. There are defensive players with comparable numbers to Teo. Johnny Football is pulling Cam Newton stuff.
Teo has a good story, he plays for Notre Dame, and those seem like his two biggest qualifications for the Heisman. Neither of those are legit reasons to me.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 8, 2012 0:33:09 GMT -5
Manziel's stats are good, but he inflated them against competition that was awful. That's why I don't buy the stats argument, stats only mean something when you're playing good competition, and he boosted his numbers by not for most of the season. He's been great this year, no doubt, but I don't think he should be far and away considered the best.
The other two mean a whole lot more to their team than Manziel does. Notre Dame isn't undefeated without Mantei. His stats may not be gaudy, but he is the lynchpin to that defense. K-State would be lucky to share the Big 12 without Klein. But without Manziel, A&M has one more loss.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 8, 2012 0:36:06 GMT -5
My biggest problem with Teo is that his campaign almost seems more hype based than production based. He is having a great year for a linebacker, but the problem is so are other guys. Teo's INTs are what set him apart, but statistically he isn't significantly better than another line backer on an undefeated team from this season, and that's Ryan Shazier from Ohio State. Shazier even has a defensive TD to his name this season. There are defensive players with comparable numbers to Teo. Johnny Football is pulling Cam Newton stuff. Teo has a good story, he plays for Notre Dame, and those seem like his two biggest qualifications for the Heisman. Neither of those are legit reasons to me. And what exactly is Cam Newton Stuff. Once again Im not pulling anti Manzeil as I fully expect him to win. But what is Cam Newton stuff? There are far better QB's to not even sniff the top 3 in Hiesman voting that had better numbers than Newton or Manzeil. But once agian that does not mean they did not deserve it, its just how things fall. And the one I am thinking of probally got hurt because of the Hype machine that we see in MT, Manziel, Newton, Regie Bush etc. Heizman does not always do the best player. They Do the verry good, with Hype.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 8, 2012 0:40:11 GMT -5
It's not all about numbers. If it were, Colt Brennan and Graham Harrell would be Heisman winners. Manziel is the sexy choice, he's got the hype, but the fact that Mantei's numbers aren't gaudy hardly means he's not deserving of the award.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Dec 8, 2012 0:45:15 GMT -5
Only game tomorrow besides FCS Playoffs is Army/Navy
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 8, 2012 0:55:07 GMT -5
They may not great teams anymore, but that game is still one of the top two rivalries in college football to me, along with Michigan/Ohio State.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 0:56:33 GMT -5
Any of the three would be deserving winners - all three had really good numbers, all three were key contributors on teams that performed a lot better than most thought. Preseason Kansas State was the highest ranked of their teams at #22 in the AP and #21 in the Coaches' Poll. A&M was unranked in both polls, and ND was unranked in the AP and #24 in the Coaches' Poll. Now, Notre Dame is #1, Kansas State is #5, and Texas A&M is #9. I know no one is doing it here but I've seen a lot of comments on other sites from fans of each player saying how the others are awful and it's ridiculous. All three are great players, all three would be worthy Heisman winners.
I'm hoping T'eo wins but I'm not going to be that upset if he doesn't - how many defensive players even come close to winning it? He's already piled up a lot of season awards, and is going to be playing for the national championship, which I don't think anyone predicted at the beginning of the year.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Dec 8, 2012 10:10:55 GMT -5
Hmmm....army/navy game? As I am Air Force this puts me in a tough position having to choose one. But I love Navy's triple option. The option is college football. So I guess Go Navy.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 8, 2012 10:39:23 GMT -5
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Post by MGH on Dec 8, 2012 10:47:30 GMT -5
Someone really needs to look closely over the Spring and strip some people of these votes.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Dec 8, 2012 11:24:10 GMT -5
Anyone know who won Montana st vs San Houston game last night?
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Dec 8, 2012 11:28:00 GMT -5
Anyone know who won Montana st vs San Houston game last night? Sam Houston St. won 34-16.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Dec 8, 2012 13:42:17 GMT -5
Tommy Tuberville will be the new Cincinnati head coach
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Dec 8, 2012 14:44:26 GMT -5
It's a giant game of "guess who gets left holding the bag next"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 15:14:57 GMT -5
So how long into this game before the terrible CBS announcers start ignoring Army/Navy and start talking about the SEC?
As for the Heisman voter. there should be a one week voting period after the season and it should be for the best player in the country, no one discounted because they're a freshman or for minor off field issues, no one voting before the regular season is over, and there should be a fan vote worth 5% of the total or something.
The system really needs an overhaul, it's not 1950 anymore.
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StuntGranny®
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Post by StuntGranny® on Dec 8, 2012 16:07:06 GMT -5
Tommy Tuberville will be the new Cincinnati head coach Wow, this is a little shocking/weird. I wonder if his sideline fit helped with this transition?
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 8, 2012 17:05:47 GMT -5
Apparently they don't teach anyone at Army or Navy to hold on to the frickin' ball!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 18:07:37 GMT -5
Watching Army and Navy attempt to throw is setting football back 100 years.
On the positive side, I love that this game is an intense rivalry but there is no ridiculous pushing/shoving or cheap shots going on. Hooray for military discipline.
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