Divas Pics/Gifs Thread XVIII: Good Girl Gone Bad

[theryno665]

Jan 9, 2013 23:53:42 GMT -5 greeby said:

Jan 9, 2013 21:30:25 GMT -5 PKO said:

*sigh* Seems like WWE is no hurry to follow up with Naomi

Really, what happened with that random, out of nowhere Naomi push?

[Cronant]

I don't think it was really meant to be a Naomi push. More like something they just wanted to do for TLC.

[Andrew is Good]

The thing with Naomi was, she was pretty athetlic, and it was shocking to see a diva be athletic. I still thought she kinda sucked wrestling wise, but I'm not sure how often she works, so it's not much of her fault.

[greeby]

Jan 10, 2013 18:25:06 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

The thing with Naomi was, she was pretty athetlic, and it was shocking to see a diva be athletic. I still thought she kinda sucked wrestling wise, but I'm not sure how often she works, so it's not much of her fault.

A lot of what went wrong in that match were things she did brilliantly when she was wrestling regularly, so it's definitely the year she spent just being a dancer.

Case in point, her last TV match before becoming a Funkadactyl, against a then-new Softcore Country

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZgMheGDB54

[PKO]

Other than TLC she only wrestled one other match (a house show) in 2012, and that was only because Kaitlyn couldn't make the show.

I thought she was a blast anyway. Hope she becomes a regular wrestler in 2013.

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2013 17:53:10 GMT -5 Cronant said:

I don't think it was really meant to be a Naomi push. More like something they just wanted to do came up with last minute for TLC.

[mjolnir]

While I think it was likely a last minute, spur of the moment, once in a lifetime sort of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if that match rubbed some people in the back the wrong way. She was athletic in it, as she's known for being, more so than half of the male roster is capable of showing. Hell, she was more competent about it than one of the guys that's arguably more athletic than her too, Sin Cara.

And, from all accounts from various Divas, after the Trish/Lita era of the division, any time the women have come close to breaking out of the cookie cutter box, something is said backstage.

It sometimes makes me wonder how good WWE's higher ups, and likely even some of the boys, really want some of the women to get or popular even. If they had a more supportive setting, how good would've someone like Kelly Kelly have gotten? Or hell, people like Rosa who botch standing currently? Maybe not all of them would've become a Beth or a Nattie, but the division could've potentially been in a better state than it's been in.

[Cronant]

[Wolf Hurricane]

Jan 10, 2013 16:41:05 GMT -5 Lazy peon said:

Jan 10, 2013 16:08:26 GMT -5 Shy Guy said:

that seems like such an attitude era gimmick lol

She'd be a heel for refusing to get implants.

More like she'd be the "uglier sister" for refusing to get implants.

[Cela]

Jan 9, 2013 23:16:37 GMT -5 @hobojack said:

Shudder... so... average!

[Unaffiliated]

Jan 10, 2013 20:20:56 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

While I think it was likely a last minute, spur of the moment, once in a lifetime sort of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if that match rubbed some people in the back the wrong way. She was athletic in it, as she's known for being, more so than half of the male roster is capable of showing. Hell, she was more competent about it than one of the guys that's arguably more athletic than her too, Sin Cara.

And, from all accounts from various Divas, after the Trish/Lita era of the division, any time the women have come close to breaking out of the cookie cutter box, something is said backstage.

It sometimes makes me wonder how good WWE's higher ups, and likely even some of the boys, really want some of the women to get or popular even. If they had a more supportive setting, how good would've someone like Kelly Kelly have gotten? Or hell, people like Rosa who botch standing currently? Maybe not all of them would've become a Beth or a Nattie, but the division could've potentially been in a better state than it's been in.

Are there other accounts of this besides McCool's? Also, is there any explanation for why this happens? I find this extremely odd. Who are those who "say something backstage"? If it's the executives and management, what have they got to lose from the divas being good? If it's the male wrestlers, what is there to feel threatened by?

[mrtuesday]

Jan 11, 2013 1:21:37 GMT -5 Unaffiliated said:

Jan 10, 2013 20:20:56 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

While I think it was likely a last minute, spur of the moment, once in a lifetime sort of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if that match rubbed some people in the back the wrong way. She was athletic in it, as she's known for being, more so than half of the male roster is capable of showing. Hell, she was more competent about it than one of the guys that's arguably more athletic than her too, Sin Cara.

And, from all accounts from various Divas, after the Trish/Lita era of the division, any time the women have come close to breaking out of the cookie cutter box, something is said backstage.

It sometimes makes me wonder how good WWE's higher ups, and likely even some of the boys, really want some of the women to get or popular even. If they had a more supportive setting, how good would've someone like Kelly Kelly have gotten? Or hell, people like Rosa who botch standing currently? Maybe not all of them would've become a Beth or a Nattie, but the division could've potentially been in a better state than it's been in.

Are there other accounts of this besides McCool's? Also, is there any explanation for why this happens? I find this extremely odd. Who are those who "say something backstage"? If it's the executives and management, what have they got to lose from the divas being good? If it's the male wrestlers, what is there to feel threatened by?

The thought of being out-shined by a girl. There are men in the business that can't handle that.

[Been burned too many times]

[mjolnir]

Jan 11, 2013 1:21:37 GMT -5 Unaffiliated said:

Jan 10, 2013 20:20:56 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

While I think it was likely a last minute, spur of the moment, once in a lifetime sort of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if that match rubbed some people in the back the wrong way. She was athletic in it, as she's known for being, more so than half of the male roster is capable of showing. Hell, she was more competent about it than one of the guys that's arguably more athletic than her too, Sin Cara.

And, from all accounts from various Divas, after the Trish/Lita era of the division, any time the women have come close to breaking out of the cookie cutter box, something is said backstage.

It sometimes makes me wonder how good WWE's higher ups, and likely even some of the boys, really want some of the women to get or popular even. If they had a more supportive setting, how good would've someone like Kelly Kelly have gotten? Or hell, people like Rosa who botch standing currently? Maybe not all of them would've become a Beth or a Nattie, but the division could've potentially been in a better state than it's been in.

Are there other accounts of this besides McCool's? Also, is there any explanation for why this happens? I find this extremely odd. Who are those who "say something backstage"? If it's the executives and management, what have they got to lose from the divas being good? If it's the male wrestlers, what is there to feel threatened by?

Melina, Maria, Maryse, Mickie, Gail, Victoria, and the list goes on & on.

Why? Like somebody else said, easy, they don't want to get shown up by women. This mentality dates back to even the Trish/Lita era of the division. Both of them, and others from that time, have commented on how some of "the boys" would get sore about them. If they got a bigger reaction, had a better match, had a higher card position, and so on.

I mean, it's no different than guys lower on the card, especially during the early 2000's, being told to tone it down. Or, the flyers being told to stop doing what they've developed their entire career around doing. Because it makes certain people, some of which are much higher than them on the food chain, look bad in comparison. Making them feel threatened as a result.

It's not uncommon, wrestling is a magnet for the insecure.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2013 1:40:14 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

Jan 11, 2013 1:21:37 GMT -5 Unaffiliated said:

Are there other accounts of this besides McCool's? Also, is there any explanation for why this happens? I find this extremely odd. Who are those who "say something backstage"? If it's the executives and management, what have they got to lose from the divas being good? If it's the male wrestlers, what is there to feel threatened by?

Melina, Maria, Maryse, Mickie, Gail, Victoria, and the list goes on & on.

Why? Like somebody else said, easy, they don't want to get shown up by women. This mentality dates back to even the Trish/Lita era of the division. Both of them, and others from that time, have commented on how some of "the boys" would get sore about them. If they got a bigger reaction, had a better match, had a higher card position, and so on.

I mean, it's no different than guys lower on the card, especially during the early 2000's, being told to tone it down. Or, the flyers being told to stop doing what they've developed their entire career around doing. Because it makes certain people, some of which are much higher than them on the food chain, look bad in comparison. Making them feel threatened as a result.

It's not uncommon, wrestling is a magnet for the insecure.

I don't think it's just that, though. The match McCool was talking about (her vs. Melina at a PPV in 2009) was one of those matches that WWE hates where they did a bunch of big spots and just kind of brushed them off pretty quickly each time so they could go to the next one. I remember it being reported after One Night Stand 2005 that the WWE guys in attendance were saying they hoped Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome weren't trying to get themselves hired because there was no way they would with the match they had (Tanaka no selling chairshots to the head, etc).

[mjolnir]

Jan 11, 2013 2:08:35 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Jan 11, 2013 1:40:14 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

Melina, Maria, Maryse, Mickie, Gail, Victoria, and the list goes on & on.

Why? Like somebody else said, easy, they don't want to get shown up by women. This mentality dates back to even the Trish/Lita era of the division. Both of them, and others from that time, have commented on how some of "the boys" would get sore about them. If they got a bigger reaction, had a better match, had a higher card position, and so on.

I mean, it's no different than guys lower on the card, especially during the early 2000's, being told to tone it down. Or, the flyers being told to stop doing what they've developed their entire career around doing. Because it makes certain people, some of which are much higher than them on the food chain, look bad in comparison. Making them feel threatened as a result.

It's not uncommon, wrestling is a magnet for the insecure.

I don't think it's just that, though. The match McCool was talking about (her vs. Melina at a PPV in 2009) was one of those matches that WWE hates where they did a bunch of big spots and just kind of brushed them off pretty quickly each time so they could go to the next one. I remember it being reported after One Night Stand 2005 that the WWE guys in attendance were saying they hoped Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome weren't trying to get themselves hired because there was no way they would with the match they had (Tanaka no selling chairshots to the head, etc).

Maybe that's part of it, but when you have all these women saying the same thing. And Finlay, basically the trainer of the Divas, admitting that in his time with the WWE he was told to not make them too good and to get the ones trained to tone it down when laying out their matches to very basic stuff...Well, shit starts to stink.

I'm not beating any drums or angry about it or anything. I accept it, it's how WWE runs it's show, the Divas are side attractions. Doesn't mean I particularly like it and it's baffling to me that a company would potentially damage it's bottom line for the sake of some egos.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2013 2:13:41 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

Jan 11, 2013 2:08:35 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

I don't think it's just that, though. The match McCool was talking about (her vs. Melina at a PPV in 2009) was one of those matches that WWE hates where they did a bunch of big spots and just kind of brushed them off pretty quickly each time so they could go to the next one. I remember it being reported after One Night Stand 2005 that the WWE guys in attendance were saying they hoped Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome weren't trying to get themselves hired because there was no way they would with the match they had (Tanaka no selling chairshots to the head, etc).

Maybe that's part of it, but when you have all these women saying the same thing. And Finlay, basically the trainer of the Divas, admitting that in his time with the WWE he was told to not make them too good and to get the ones trained to tone it down when laying out their matches to very basic stuff...Well, s*** starts to stink.

I'm not beating any drums or angry about it or anything. I accept it, it's how WWE runs it's show, the Divas are side attractions. Doesn't mean I particularly like it and it's baffling to me that a company would potentially damage it's bottom line for the sake of some egos.

My point was that they do it to guys, too, and it's not a recent thing, either.

Ahmed Johnson was told to stop doing dives over the ropes because people wouldn't care about Shawn Michaels doing it if they saw big monster Ahmed do it eariler.

Shane Helms was told to stop using the chokeslam because it was considered a big man move and was told to drop the Vertebreaker, even though he, to my knowledge, never injured anyone with it.

Dean Malenko vs. Scotty 2 Hotty at Backlash 2000 had an awesome-looking finish.......that they were promptly told to never do again when they got backstage.

[mjolnir]

Jan 11, 2013 2:22:44 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Jan 11, 2013 2:13:41 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

Maybe that's part of it, but when you have all these women saying the same thing. And Finlay, basically the trainer of the Divas, admitting that in his time with the WWE he was told to not make them too good and to get the ones trained to tone it down when laying out their matches to very basic stuff...Well, s*** starts to stink.

I'm not beating any drums or angry about it or anything. I accept it, it's how WWE runs it's show, the Divas are side attractions. Doesn't mean I particularly like it and it's baffling to me that a company would potentially damage it's bottom line for the sake of some egos.

My point was that they do it to guys, too, and it's not a recent thing, either.

Ahmed Johnson was told to stop doing dives over the ropes because people wouldn't care about Shawn Michaels doing it if they saw big monster Ahmed do it eariler.

Shane Helms was told to stop using the chokeslam because it was considered a big man move and was told to drop the Vertebreaker, even though he, to my knowledge, never injured anyone with it.

Dean Malenko vs. Scotty 2 Hotty at Backlash 2000 had an awesome-looking finish.......that they were promptly told to never do again when they got backstage.

I...know...?

I mentioned such things already, so I don't know what you're really trying to put across here.

And, it's not just extremely risky things either. Like I said, Divas especially have been victims of having to play a very basic game. One that most of the men don't even have to adhere to. Definitely not the main eventers either.

Also I'm not saying it's fair to do this to guys either. But again, it's not as extreme for most of them.

Which, again, defeats the purpose of having them around as wrestlers. If you're not giving them the chance to win fans over, to be a glorified piss break, why have them? It would make much more sense to have a much more supportive system for the Divas in place, to try to build legitimate stars out of them. Both in terms of in-ring abilities and popularity, not "just for a Diva", but overall.

Profit is profit, and that should be WWE's bottom line. Not protecting the egos of some of their male superstars and comforting some of the old fashioned mentalities some staff have.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2013 2:38:35 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

Jan 11, 2013 2:22:44 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

My point was that they do it to guys, too, and it's not a recent thing, either.

Ahmed Johnson was told to stop doing dives over the ropes because people wouldn't care about Shawn Michaels doing it if they saw big monster Ahmed do it eariler.

Shane Helms was told to stop using the chokeslam because it was considered a big man move and was told to drop the Vertebreaker, even though he, to my knowledge, never injured anyone with it.

Dean Malenko vs. Scotty 2 Hotty at Backlash 2000 had an awesome-looking finish.......that they were promptly told to never do again when they got backstage.

I...know...?

I mentioned such things already, so I don't know what you're really trying to put across here.

And, it's not just extremely risky things either. Like I said, Divas especially have been victims of having to play a very basic game. One that most of the men don't even have to adhere to. Definitely not the main eventers either.

Also I'm not saying it's fair to do this to guys either. But again, it's not as extreme for most of them.

Which, again, defeats the purpose of having them around as wrestlers. If you're not giving them the chance to win fans over, to be a glorified piss break, why have them? It would make much more sense to have a much more supportive system for the Divas in place, to try to build legitimate stars out of them. Both in terms of in-ring abilities and popularity, not "just for a Diva", but overall.

Profit is profit, and that should be WWE's bottom line. Not protecting the egos of some of their male superstars and comforting some of the old fashioned mentalities some staff have.

And I'm saying the Divas aren't being singled out because everyone on the roster has limitations put on them, and every one of those limitations can be turned into "WWE wants to hold me back and make sure I'm not too entertaining".

[mjolnir]

Jan 11, 2013 2:50:03 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Jan 11, 2013 2:38:35 GMT -5 mjolnir said:

I...know...?

I mentioned such things already, so I don't know what you're really trying to put across here.

And, it's not just extremely risky things either. Like I said, Divas especially have been victims of having to play a very basic game. One that most of the men don't even have to adhere to. Definitely not the main eventers either.

Also I'm not saying it's fair to do this to guys either. But again, it's not as extreme for most of them.

Which, again, defeats the purpose of having them around as wrestlers. If you're not giving them the chance to win fans over, to be a glorified piss break, why have them? It would make much more sense to have a much more supportive system for the Divas in place, to try to build legitimate stars out of them. Both in terms of in-ring abilities and popularity, not "just for a Diva", but overall.

Profit is profit, and that should be WWE's bottom line. Not protecting the egos of some of their male superstars and comforting some of the old fashioned mentalities some staff have.

And I'm saying the Divas aren't being singled out because everyone on the roster has limitations put on them, and every one of those limitations can be turned into "WWE wants to hold me back and make sure I'm not too entertaining".

Everyone?

Hm.

No.

Not everyone, I'd say most do. And, again, I haven't argued this fact with you. But to varying degrees, and by all accounts the Divas have the worst of it. I don't think anyone can argue that when looking at the differences between the average mid-card, or even lower mid-card match and a Divas match.

Allow me to modify what I said too, by most, I mean the majority of the active roster do to varying degrees. Certain part timers clearly don't and certain top talent have been shown to be given far more lee-way with their supposed limitations.

Nothing, in theory, wrong with the idea of limitations or the top talent getting more room to breath either. I wouldn't want the Divas to suddenly bust out Burning Hammers and flaming tables. Or, lower mid-carders to suddenly take fifty unprotected shots to the head from a chair and kick out. It's the execution by WWE that needs work and needs less cuddling of egos & sexism.