Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 28, 2012 14:16:19 GMT -5
Punk isn't a ratings draw. There's your answer. I never got this. "Punk couldn't draw ratings his first year on top (or as close to it as they let him), so drop him off and bring back the old guys." The Attitude Era officially started, so to speak, in '97. Didn't it take at least a couple of years for them to start really raking in ratings? "Punk isn't a ratings draw." Punk was never given the time to be a ratings draw! Punk was actually bringing in good ratings until the Kevin Nash/Triple H incident. That thing killed him dead in the water. He was just another guy after that point.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 28, 2012 14:25:41 GMT -5
Average rating for Raw, Money in the Bank - SummerSlam: 3.05
Average rating for Raw, 2011 Overall: 3.20 Average rating for Raw 2011 before the "Pipebomb": 3.38. Average rating for Raw 2011 after SummerSlam: 3.03.
Punk wasn't doing bad ratings during that period, but they weren't stellar either. Just run of the mill numbers for any normal episode of Raw. Ratings were actually higher before Punk got big (even when you take out the numbers increase from WM season, the average still comes out to 3.2), and barely dropped after HHH/Nash entered the storyline.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 14:26:15 GMT -5
If Cena wins in the ME of Wrestlemania over the Rock in New Jersey of all places then people will be pissed.
Hence why I doubt that match will happen on THE wrestling show of the year. Maybe Summerslam, maybe Survivor Series, not 'Mania.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,278
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 28, 2012 14:30:57 GMT -5
Nobody is a ratings draw in this day and age. Cena is the best draw, but it's not like he's in a league far above the other main eventers.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 28, 2012 14:36:11 GMT -5
The ratings have been dropping for years, and most of that time, it was Cena who was the focus of the show. So I wouldn't even call him a real draw. He just slows down the decline more than most.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 28, 2012 14:42:56 GMT -5
The ratings have been dropping for years, and most of that time, it was Cena who was the focus of the show. So I wouldn't even call him a real draw. He just slows down the decline more than most. That warrants another WWE title win, against the Rock at Wrestlemania no less. No doubt about it.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 28, 2012 14:50:26 GMT -5
Ratings actually haven't seen any significant drop since 2007. Here's the average numbers for Raw since the Attitude Era ended: {Spoiler}2001 - 4.64 2002 - 4.03 2003 - 3.78 2004 - 3.69 2005 - 3.82 (Batista wins the World title; Cena comes to Raw) 2006 - 3.90 2007 - 3.61 (Chris Benoit murder-suicide) 2008 - 3.27 2009 - 3.56 2010 - 3.28 2011 - 3.20 Aside from the ratings bump in 2009 (celebrity guest hosts?), they've been steadily at a 3.2 since 2007. Raw ratings will probably never get back to their Attitude Era levels, but they've been doing fine for a while now. They'll probably drop in 2012, though. I don't think anybody is going to do significant change to Raw's ratings in a while, if at all. Television is a different industry than it used to be, and the lower ratings now are an indication of that. Cena did improve ratings back in 2005 when he showed up and in 2006 when he assumed a greater role on the show, and he usually does the best segments now (which is why people say he's a ratings draw), but even he can't really change the fact that WWE Raw just isn't must-see television anymore, especially thanks to the Internet, DVR, greater competition on television, and now three-hour Raw episodes. Not even The Rock and Brock Lesnar will be doing much to improve ratings when they show up. I just get tired of people assuming ratings were on the rise when Punk was doing his thing, and HHH/Nash killed that. There was nothing there for them to kill except an interesting storyline. Punk may not be ratings poison, it may not be his fault that ratings aren't rising, but there's nothing suggesting that he's going to be the guy to make an improvement in business better than Cena's already doing now.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 28, 2012 15:35:37 GMT -5
With the exception of 2001, that chart just looks in line with the decline of television as the focus of societal entertainment. I'd think you'd see similar declines in other continuous programs like local news, or in prime time generally, etc.
Though, it is funny how you can use the ratings to make any argument depending on what guy is your favorite.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 28, 2012 15:40:40 GMT -5
With the exception of 2001, that chart just looks in line with the decline of television as the focus of societal entertainment. I'd think you'd see similar declines in other continuous programs like local news, or in prime time generally, etc. That's what I'm trying to get at. Raw's most recent ratings declines are due to something bigger than any one Superstar or the quality of the product. As time goes on, Raw's ratings will probably decline even further, no matter what happens. It's not a Cena problem, a Punk problem, or even an issue of Raw's quality. It's just the nature of the industry in general. I think ratings are steadier now (2008-2011) than they were in 2002-2005, when they were in free-fall thanks to the departures of Rock/Austin and the end of the Attitude Era in general.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 28, 2012 15:43:48 GMT -5
With the exception of 2001, that chart just looks in line with the decline of television as the focus of societal entertainment. I'd think you'd see similar declines in other continuous programs like local news, or in prime time generally, etc. That's what I'm trying to get at. Raw's most recent ratings declines are due to something bigger than any one Superstar or the quality of the product. As time goes on, Raw's ratings will probably decline even further, no matter what happens. But what you're saying would be reflected in the number of viewers not the Nielsen number, which is an estimated proportion of the number of people watching television at that time.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Dec 28, 2012 15:44:53 GMT -5
Didn't this whole ratings thing come as a response to someone feeling sorry about Punk possibly dropping the title, after over 400 days?
Anybody else find that ridiculous?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 28, 2012 16:45:43 GMT -5
This "draw" thing is so plainly ridiculous thinking that hasn't been relevant since the territory days, and I'm astounded anyone talks about it with the WWE.
People watch the show for the show and for the brand. And if they want to see a particular individual, it doesn't matter if that person is champ or is a jobber, as long as they're on TV.
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Post by Snaptastic on Dec 28, 2012 16:50:33 GMT -5
If Cena wins in the ME of Wrestlemania over the Rock in New Jersey of all places then people will be pissed. Hence why I doubt that match will happen on THE wrestling show of the year. Maybe Summerslam, maybe Survivor Series, not 'Mania. People said the same about last year. The crowd will be from all around the globe. I doubt it would be hostile. Can't say the same for me however This "draw" thing is so plainly ridiculous thinking that hasn't been relevant since the territory days, and I'm astounded anyone talks about it with the WWE. People watch the show for the show and for the brand. And if they want to see a particular individual, it doesn't matter if that person is champ or is a jobber, as long as they're on TV. True but you can't deny the numbers of 27 & 28. WM wasn't doing bad as such, but when one guy shows up and the Mania buyrate pops over 1 million both years (one of those years pulling the largest buyrate for a WWE PPV ever)...you have to take notice.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 28, 2012 17:08:48 GMT -5
That's what I'm trying to get at. Raw's most recent ratings declines are due to something bigger than any one Superstar or the quality of the product. As time goes on, Raw's ratings will probably decline even further, no matter what happens. But what you're saying would be reflected in the number of viewers not the Nielsen number, which is an estimated proportion of the number of people watching television at that time. TV rating is based on % of TV households, share is based on % of households who are watching TV at that time.
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mainsupreme
Unicron
World Wildlife Entertainment
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Post by mainsupreme on Dec 28, 2012 17:19:55 GMT -5
Punk has been such death as champion that I honestly don't give a damn who.he drops the belt to. Still he feels so much more fresher than Cena or Sheamus.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 28, 2012 17:48:03 GMT -5
This "draw" thing is so plainly ridiculous thinking that hasn't been relevant since the territory days, and I'm astounded anyone talks about it with the WWE. We talk about it because WWE still relies on that thinking, and business has continued to rise and fall based on the marketability of certain wrestlers. It's not hard to realize that certain guys are more popular than others, and that WWE uses them more prominently because of their popularity. If people only came to see the show and not because certain people draw them in, why do certain pay-per-views featuring bigger name talent do so much better than pay-per-views without them?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 17:51:04 GMT -5
The ratings have been dropping for years, and most of that time, it was Cena who was the focus of the show. So I wouldn't even call him a real draw. He just slows down the decline more than most. Yeah his drawing powers are pretty overstated. He's closer to HBK than he is Hulk Hogan.
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