Jeremy
Hank Scorpio
Horse of a Different Color
Posts: 6,240
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Post by Jeremy on Jan 2, 2013 19:51:11 GMT -5
Dude had, by his own admission, a major nervous breakdown. The last I heard was that he was still in post production.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 2, 2013 19:52:27 GMT -5
99% of these startups think and act like it's so easy to do what the existing promotions to, except do it "better." Then they can't even get off the ground. That whole Kickstarter pitch, Katz was so cocky to say how it's a "novel concept" to book storylines with a beginning, middle, and end. On his publicity (appearances on podcasts who helped him convince fans to give him $100,000) he, in similarly cocky fashion, discussed the various ways he will be able to easily get his product in the hands of the fans. Acting as though he's smarter than everyone else in wrestling. Fast forward 17 months later, and he hasn't released anything. WWE or TNA may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they consistently run shows fans can watch. ROH produces a weekly television product without fail. Promotions like CHIKARA and PWG have run on a consistent basis for years. WRP can't get even one episode finished and released, despite having $100,000 to play with. It's so simple, right? 100,000 isn't really a lot of money to begin with for what he is doing or what his vision is. If you trying to start a show the ground up. Once you factor in renting out the building, All the equipment to make a show (Cameras, ring, and ext) Some wrestlers want advice money. After that how much is left? He acts like some TV network is just going to say hey here's a time slot for you. I mean TNA is where there at because they had a million dollar company backing them and did things to get interest from networks. The weekly PPV was unheard of but it worked until they got a network deal.. WWE is a billion dollar company now they honestly can't be beaten. ROH been around as long as TNA has but not backed like TNA is but there there because they didn't over spend. The work slow to where they are at. Which the key is making money which what they did. The key was building a roster of not big names but creating the big indies guys. I'm feel it's easier now then it would be ten years ago. Why couldn't WRP at less done a stream series. or an IPPV. The internet is a powerful thing. At less have something you can show a network to maybe get picked up by it. It was me, I don't an IPPV or a stream of my show online. Just to try and get interest and have something to show anybody who gave me money for it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 20:26:24 GMT -5
100,000 isn't really a lot of money to begin with for what he is doing or what his vision is. If you trying to start a show the ground up. Once you factor in renting out the building, All the equipment to make a show (Cameras, ring, and ext) Some wrestlers want advice money. After that how much is left? I'll copy and paste a post from the ROH World board in response to this. The idea that it cost Katz over $100,000 to film what was a weekend of indy shows, and now has to "finance the rest out of his pocket" is laughable. It was about 16 indy guys plus MVP and Luke Gallows. Unless these random indy dudes were getting paid $10,000 each, how does it cost $100,000?
Ring rental $500 $500
Location rental $3,000 (likely less) $3,500
Lodging for talent $1,000 $4,500
Video crew $10,000 (I'd say more like $3,000 since the footage in the trailer did not indicate they used high end equipment, but I'll be generous here and say it somehow cost them $10,000 to rent cameras for 3 days and pay cameramen to shoot) $14,500
Paying 16 guys $3,000 each (again, being overly generous with that number, since probably 12 of those guys would work for $100 per match on indy shows usually) $62,500
Paying 2 guys $5,000 each (MVP and Gallows) $72,500
Airfare for 18 guys at an average of $300 per flight = $5,400 $77,900
Even with rounding up by several thousand dollars in several of those categories, that still leaves $22,100 of extra money.
So, let's say he REALLY got scammed by the ring owner and somehow had to pay an extra $3,000 for the ring. $80,900
Then let's say they stayed at a five star hotel which cost triple my original hotel amount. $82,900
Then let's say Kevin Matthews charged an extra $5,000 to wrestle. $87,900
You STILL HAVE $12,100 left over, with which Katz can, say, have enough to BUY A CAR.
The same shows with 18 indy guys could be run by PWG or ROH for around $30,000 if they pay the guys their usual indy rate, rent cameras for $500 per day, etc.
Conclusion: Katz is full of *expletive deleted*.
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thirteen3
Dennis Stamp
posted with a broken freakin neck keyboard
Posts: 3,695
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Post by thirteen3 on Jan 2, 2013 20:36:36 GMT -5
It was a con job, plain and simple.
How could anyone actually believe this guy was a producer in Hollywood. Has this guy ever done anything significant at all before scamming up a hundred grand?
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 2, 2013 22:01:28 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 22:13:03 GMT -5
yeah his opinions are featured prominently on both the "His Name was Jason" and "Never Sleep Again" documentaries as well
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Post by molson5 on Jan 2, 2013 22:17:22 GMT -5
That whole Kickstarter pitch, Katz was so cocky to say how it's a "novel concept" to book storylines with a beginning, middle, and end. On his publicity (appearances on podcasts who helped him convince fans to give him $100,000) he, in similarly cocky fashion, discussed the various ways he will be able to easily get his product in the hands of the fans. Acting as though he's smarter than everyone else in wrestling. Ya, the guy was completely unlikeable from the start but enough people buy this kind of shtick to bring the money in. I guess this is the kind of swagger that gets one promoted in a production company despite a lack of experience or talent. Him promoting himself as god's gift to wrestling and as something incredibly new was just ridiculous. He just claimed there'd be a "beginning, middle, and end". Maybe that's all you have to do in Hollywood. ("Hi, I'm going to make a cutting edge movie that will look at Westerns in an entirely new way, giving the fans what they want, I'll tell you more later, now give me money.")
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Post by molson5 on Jan 2, 2013 22:20:09 GMT -5
Dude had, by his own admission, a major nervous breakdown. The last I heard was that he was still in post production. I'd use the word "claimed" instead of "admitted".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 22:25:50 GMT -5
The way I understood it, this breakdown happened prior to the WRP thing. He just didn't tell the story of it until after.
Someone who posted about attending the WRP tapings live said he paid $20 to get in as a wrestling fan, but others in the crowd were actors being paid to be there and cheer and boo accordingly. So there was actually a live gate, in addition to the Kickstarter money. Very slimy to charge actual wrestling fans, yet pay non-fans.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 2, 2013 22:50:12 GMT -5
100,000 isn't really a lot of money to begin with for what he is doing or what his vision is. If you trying to start a show the ground up. Once you factor in renting out the building, All the equipment to make a show (Cameras, ring, and ext) Some wrestlers want advice money. After that how much is left? I'll copy and paste a post from the ROH World board in response to this. The idea that it cost Katz over $100,000 to film what was a weekend of indy shows, and now has to "finance the rest out of his pocket" is laughable. It was about 16 indy guys plus MVP and Luke Gallows. Unless these random indy dudes were getting paid $10,000 each, how does it cost $100,000?
Ring rental $500 $500
Location rental $3,000 (likely less) $3,500
Lodging for talent $1,000 $4,500
Video crew $10,000 (I'd say more like $3,000 since the footage in the trailer did not indicate they used high end equipment, but I'll be generous here and say it somehow cost them $10,000 to rent cameras for 3 days and pay cameramen to shoot) $14,500
Paying 16 guys $3,000 each (again, being overly generous with that number, since probably 12 of those guys would work for $100 per match on indy shows usually) $62,500
Paying 2 guys $5,000 each (MVP and Gallows) $72,500
Airfare for 18 guys at an average of $300 per flight = $5,400 $77,900
Even with rounding up by several thousand dollars in several of those categories, that still leaves $22,100 of extra money.
So, let's say he REALLY got scammed by the ring owner and somehow had to pay an extra $3,000 for the ring. $80,900
Then let's say they stayed at a five star hotel which cost triple my original hotel amount. $82,900
Then let's say Kevin Matthews charged an extra $5,000 to wrestle. $87,900
You STILL HAVE $12,100 left over, with which Katz can, say, have enough to BUY A CAR.
The same shows with 18 indy guys could be run by PWG or ROH for around $30,000 if they pay the guys their usual indy rate, rent cameras for $500 per day, etc.
Conclusion: Katz is full of *expletive deleted*.
This is interesting stats. But I finger something wasn't list would been fliers and banners. I'm sure there was some kind of advertisement involved. Some kind of ticket printing and all the stuff is going into tha. Lighting and sound. Safey Rails. Mats and that ramp. Which is no 12,000 I know that but I say at the most another 2,000. I don't know much about it or what all it takes to put on a show. Like wasn't sure how many wrestlers there was and other staff.
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Post by molson5 on Jan 2, 2013 23:58:40 GMT -5
I'll copy and paste a post from the ROH World board in response to this. The idea that it cost Katz over $100,000 to film what was a weekend of indy shows, and now has to "finance the rest out of his pocket" is laughable. It was about 16 indy guys plus MVP and Luke Gallows. Unless these random indy dudes were getting paid $10,000 each, how does it cost $100,000?
Ring rental $500 $500
Location rental $3,000 (likely less) $3,500
Lodging for talent $1,000 $4,500
Video crew $10,000 (I'd say more like $3,000 since the footage in the trailer did not indicate they used high end equipment, but I'll be generous here and say it somehow cost them $10,000 to rent cameras for 3 days and pay cameramen to shoot) $14,500
Paying 16 guys $3,000 each (again, being overly generous with that number, since probably 12 of those guys would work for $100 per match on indy shows usually) $62,500
Paying 2 guys $5,000 each (MVP and Gallows) $72,500
Airfare for 18 guys at an average of $300 per flight = $5,400 $77,900
Even with rounding up by several thousand dollars in several of those categories, that still leaves $22,100 of extra money.
So, let's say he REALLY got scammed by the ring owner and somehow had to pay an extra $3,000 for the ring. $80,900
Then let's say they stayed at a five star hotel which cost triple my original hotel amount. $82,900
Then let's say Kevin Matthews charged an extra $5,000 to wrestle. $87,900
You STILL HAVE $12,100 left over, with which Katz can, say, have enough to BUY A CAR.
The same shows with 18 indy guys could be run by PWG or ROH for around $30,000 if they pay the guys their usual indy rate, rent cameras for $500 per day, etc.
Conclusion: Katz is full of *expletive deleted*.
This is interesting stats. But I finger something wasn't list would been fliers and banners. I'm sure there was some kind of advertisement involved. Some kind of ticket printing and all the stuff is going into tha. Lighting and sound. Safey Rails. Mats and that ramp. Which is no 12,000 I know that but I say at the most another 2,000. I don't know much about it or what all it takes to put on a show. Like wasn't sure how many wrestlers there was and other staff. I'm sure there's different ways to break it down, but the guy taking money from the public should have the best plan to make it work.
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Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on Jan 4, 2013 11:16:04 GMT -5
100,000 isn't really a lot of money to begin with for what he is doing or what his vision is. If you trying to start a show the ground up. Once you factor in renting out the building, All the equipment to make a show (Cameras, ring, and ext) Some wrestlers want advice money. After that how much is left? I'll copy and paste a post from the ROH World board in response to this. The idea that it cost Katz over $100,000 to film what was a weekend of indy shows, and now has to "finance the rest out of his pocket" is laughable. It was about 16 indy guys plus MVP and Luke Gallows. Unless these random indy dudes were getting paid $10,000 each, how does it cost $100,000?
Ring rental $500 $500
Location rental $3,000 (likely less) $3,500
Lodging for talent $1,000 $4,500
Video crew $10,000 (I'd say more like $3,000 since the footage in the trailer did not indicate they used high end equipment, but I'll be generous here and say it somehow cost them $10,000 to rent cameras for 3 days and pay cameramen to shoot) $14,500
Paying 16 guys $3,000 each (again, being overly generous with that number, since probably 12 of those guys would work for $100 per match on indy shows usually) $62,500
Paying 2 guys $5,000 each (MVP and Gallows) $72,500
Airfare for 18 guys at an average of $300 per flight = $5,400 $77,900
Even with rounding up by several thousand dollars in several of those categories, that still leaves $22,100 of extra money.
So, let's say he REALLY got scammed by the ring owner and somehow had to pay an extra $3,000 for the ring. $80,900
Then let's say they stayed at a five star hotel which cost triple my original hotel amount. $82,900
Then let's say Kevin Matthews charged an extra $5,000 to wrestle. $87,900
You STILL HAVE $12,100 left over, with which Katz can, say, have enough to BUY A CAR.
The same shows with 18 indy guys could be run by PWG or ROH for around $30,000 if they pay the guys their usual indy rate, rent cameras for $500 per day, etc.
Conclusion: Katz is full of *expletive deleted*.
Not to defend the promoter but this breakdown shows a complete lack of knowledge of TV or film production. The costs would be different than a regular wrestling show as he was trying to make it look film-like. His camera rental alone would take up that 10,000 dollars. None of that even factors in the post work that can cost as much as production. As an example I'm a sound effects editor and get 125 an hour for doing so. These guys are going to need a dialogue editor, sound effects/BGs editor, foley engineer and a mixer (they get paid more than everyone else). That's not even getting into the picture edit crew.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 11:44:22 GMT -5
Have you seen Katz's "Underground" stuff on YouTube where he doesn't even use a microphone for voiceovers, just the external mic on his laptop? He didn't spend that kind of money on production for wrestling.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 4, 2013 12:50:50 GMT -5
Have you seen Katz's "Underground" stuff on YouTube where he doesn't even use a microphone for voiceovers, just the external mic on his laptop? He didn't spend that kind of money on production for wrestling. That wasn't done with WRP stuff though. Everything with that was funded by the YT Channel that commissioned it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 13:45:25 GMT -5
True, but it's indicative of his production standards for how he will present a wrestling product. Time will tell, if we ever see what WRP actually looks and sounds like in comparison to the Underground material.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,145
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Post by Paco on Jan 4, 2013 21:32:39 GMT -5
I read the topic as "Where is WKRP?" ...in Cincinnati, of course
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Jan 5, 2013 16:58:05 GMT -5
Anybody else see the irony here? "Retribution."
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Post by flatsdomino on Jan 6, 2013 20:44:48 GMT -5
That whole Kickstarter pitch, Katz was so cocky to say how it's a "novel concept" to book storylines with a beginning, middle, and end. On his publicity (appearances on podcasts who helped him convince fans to give him $100,000) he, in similarly cocky fashion, discussed the various ways he will be able to easily get his product in the hands of the fans. Acting as though he's smarter than everyone else in wrestling. Ya, the guy was completely unlikeable from the start but enough people buy this kind of shtick to bring the money in. I guess this is the kind of swagger that gets one promoted in a production company despite a lack of experience or talent. Him promoting himself as god's gift to wrestling and as something incredibly new was just ridiculous. He just claimed there'd be a "beginning, middle, and end". Maybe that's all you have to do in Hollywood. ("Hi, I'm going to make a cutting edge movie that will look at Westerns in an entirely new way, giving the fans what they want, I'll tell you more later, now give me money.") Not only is that pretty much exactly how things work in Hollywood, but it's also basically how Eric Bischoff's rise to power in WCW worked.
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