|
Post by dlg3000 on Jan 5, 2013 20:00:03 GMT -5
I know that CM Punk is a natural heel and all, but is this his worst heel character? He is relatively overshadowed by Paul Heyman in my opinion plus his heeldom seems forced to me. He is better without a mouthpiece or representative. I am or may be in the minority, but I am just not a fan of his current heel character. He was much better as a cult or stable leader where he was a good character who didn't need a mouthpiece.
|
|
Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
|
Post by Jimmy on Jan 5, 2013 20:01:38 GMT -5
It's not as good as SES Punk, but it's better than aimless Nexus leader Punk. I don't think he's overshadowed by Heyman at all.
|
|
froggyfrog
El Dandy
abababababbabababababa
Posts: 7,557
|
Post by froggyfrog on Jan 5, 2013 20:02:45 GMT -5
It's not as good as SES Punk, but it's better than aimless Nexus leader Punk. I don't think he's overshadowed by Heyman at all.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 5, 2013 20:04:39 GMT -5
It's not as good as SES Punk, but it's better than aimless Nexus leader Punk. I don't think he's overshadowed by Heyman at all.
|
|
|
Post by dlg3000 on Jan 5, 2013 20:04:56 GMT -5
Okay. Thanks. Anyone else?
|
|
|
Post by celticjobber on Jan 5, 2013 20:05:19 GMT -5
I think Punk's been better than ever during this heel run. He and Heyman were made for each other, IMO. They go together like mashed potatoes and gravy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 20:11:06 GMT -5
I've never quite grasped why Heyman is with Punk. It does Paul a disservice to be with someone who (a) can talk on his own, (b) doesn't really need him and (c) makes him basically a glorified valet who just holds the belt.
OTOH, Heyman and Punk do have a history ("I'm a Heyman guy.") so it does make sense. And if they do more with Paul, like these Ryback fights he's being forced into, then that's good.
But other than that - or by using Heyman to create a stable around Punk - it's tough seeing Heyman out there....
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Jan 5, 2013 20:15:14 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of it, personally. I know that Punk's a good heel and his SES stuff was great, but when you've had to spend months just trying to get Punk a heel reaction from the crowds, it doesn't come off that great.
|
|
|
Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Jan 5, 2013 20:17:51 GMT -5
I just like CM Punk as a babyface. I like cheering for the guy. Why the hell is that so damn wrong?
I get that he's a good heel, but I want to cheer for the guys I like and not be "that guy" for once.
|
|
543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,793
|
Post by 543Y2J on Jan 5, 2013 20:21:19 GMT -5
I've never quite grasped why Heyman is with Punk. It does Paul a disservice to be with someone who (a) can talk on his own, (b) doesn't really need him and (c) makes him basically a glorified valet who just holds the belt. But other than that - or by using Heyman to create a stable around Punk - it's tough seeing Heyman out there.... Because we wouldn't get great moments like this and They go together like mashed potatoes and gravy. Heyman has really shown his worth to Punk these past couple of months in my opinion. Punk can have a different pace to his promos now and Heyman can generate extra heat for Punk in the towns that still give him face pops. Plus bigga pitcha potential with Lesnar, Shield, Mad Ox etc.
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jan 5, 2013 20:25:35 GMT -5
I agree with you on the forced-ness of his heel turn, but not so much on Heyman. Not that they go together, but I don't think he overshadows him either. Punk's pretty exceptional on the mic, so I don't see why he needs Heyman in the first place, personally.
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 5, 2013 21:09:44 GMT -5
If he had had his heel run without Heyman, he would of talked more and done more with his characterization. So, it probably would of been a lot more entertaining. And I think that's exactly why they stuck Heyman with him and took the route they did. To avoid him getting over. To get Heat. And build him up as big of a heel as possible to eventually get his comeuppance from someone. I mean Rock.
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 5, 2013 21:22:20 GMT -5
I've never quite grasped why Heyman is with Punk. It does Paul a disservice to be with someone who (a) can talk on his own, (b) doesn't really need him and (c) makes him basically a glorified valet who just holds the belt. That is exactly why he is there. Flair never "needed" JJ Dillion or Heenan but he did. Rude never "needed" Heenan or Heyman but he did. Austin never "needed" Heyman but he did. Anderson never "needed" Dillion, Heenan, or Heyman but he did. The Freebirds never "needed" DDP but they did. And I could really go on and on. They have/had these guys because they were so good that it helps get them heel heat. You have guys that damn good, that can do everything on their own but they have people hyping them up, helping them win, talking for them and so on that it tends to infuriate people. That is not a disservice to Paul but a complement.
|
|
|
Post by BiloxiParish on Jan 6, 2013 0:22:15 GMT -5
You can never overshadow Punk. It's not as good as SES CM Punk, but he is trying really damn hard to get people to hate him. I love it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 0:32:11 GMT -5
I've never quite grasped why Heyman is with Punk. It does Paul a disservice to be with someone who (a) can talk on his own, (b) doesn't really need him and (c) makes him basically a glorified valet who just holds the belt. That is exactly why he is there. Flair never "needed" JJ Dillion or Heenan but he did. Rude never "needed" Heenan or Heyman but he did. Austin never "needed" Heyman but he did. Anderson never "needed" Dillion, Heenan, or Heyman but he did. The Freebirds never "needed" DDP but they did. And I could really go on and on. They have/had these guys because they were so good that it helps get them heel heat. You have guys that damn good, that can do everything on their own but they have people hyping them up, helping them win, talking for them and so on that it tends to infuriate people. That is not a disservice to Paul but a complement. Thank You. Some of the greatest talkers in wrestling have had managers. They are the bonus fries.
|
|
|
Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jan 6, 2013 0:36:46 GMT -5
That is exactly why he is there. Flair never "needed" JJ Dillion or Heenan but he did. Rude never "needed" Heenan or Heyman but he did. Austin never "needed" Heyman but he did. Anderson never "needed" Dillion, Heenan, or Heyman but he did. The Freebirds never "needed" DDP but they did. And I could really go on and on. They have/had these guys because they were so good that it helps get them heel heat. You have guys that damn good, that can do everything on their own but they have people hyping them up, helping them win, talking for them and so on that it tends to infuriate people. That is not a disservice to Paul but a complement. Thank You. Some of the greatest talkers in wrestling have had managers. They are the bonus fries.
|
|
|
Post by mjolnir on Jan 6, 2013 0:38:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I echo alot of the sentiments around here. Not as good as SES Punk, returned but still pre-Nexus Leader Punk, and pipebomb Punk in terms of what heels he's played. Though it's still entertaining, and leagues better than the majority of the new Nexus crap he was saddled with.
And, Heyman with him is a two folds thing. Heyman keeps Punk from doing too much that might generate a positive reaction, and vice versa. Punk keeps Heyman leashed enough that he won't be getting a positive reaction either, as he's been known to get from time to time when on the mic. They feel like, basically, a modern day equivalent to the Flair & Heenan duo.
|
|
siredger
ALF
Can now proudly say he held the AWA World Heavyweight Championship in his hands.
Posts: 1,116
|
Post by siredger on Jan 6, 2013 1:00:36 GMT -5
Interesting take on that relationship. Never thought about Punk/Heyman being a modern version of Flair/Heenan until you mentioned it.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Jan 6, 2013 1:44:23 GMT -5
It's a forced turn, for illogical reasons. That's why I don't like the character. It's even worse because Heyman's arguments for why Punk should be respected, are essentially true, which makes even less sense for Punk to be a heel.
|
|
|
Post by mjolnir on Jan 6, 2013 2:16:03 GMT -5
It's a forced turn, for illogical reasons. That's why I don't like the character. It's even worse because Heyman's arguments for why Punk should be respected, are essentially true, which makes even less sense for Punk to be a heel. See, I get that line of thinking. But I think, especially at this point, they've done well in doing the classic heel thing. The heels do have a point, but they've taken it beyond logical levels of trying to demand it and going about it the wrong way. No one respects the person that demands respect and acts like a spoiled, insecure child over it. Even if their argument for why they deserve it is somewhat valid, they invalidate it themselves with their actions & words.
|
|