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Post by frogsplash45 on Jan 7, 2013 3:36:03 GMT -5
I have heard this argument before, and while it has validity, I highly doubt most here would be very supportive of Daniel Bryan or CM Punk or Dean Ambrose if they decided to quit pro wrestling tomorrow because they don't like how tough it is. ... so what? Wrestling isn't a life commitment, and anyone should be able to leave without being hated for it. Who cares what anyone here would think? I have heard this argument before, and while it has validity, I highly doubt most here would be very supportive of Daniel Bryan or CM Punk or Dean Ambrose if they decided to quit pro wrestling tomorrow because they don't like how tough it is. I would, because it is. ... so what? Wrestling isn't a life commitment, and anyone should be able to leave without being hated for it. Who cares what anyone here would think? Exactly. Arguments like that is what gives me such a low opinion of some wrestling fans, because they practically demand that wrestlers do nothing but wrestle until the fans get too tired of them to support them. If someone feels they've accomplished all they've wanted to in a business, and leave to do something else they love, then great for them. The WWE couldn't do anything more for the Rock, and to be frank, the Rock really couldn't do much else for the WWE at that point in his career. I applaud anyone who achieves what they want without needing half a bottle of pain pills a day for the rest of their life, and if there are fans out there don't like it, screw them. Anyone who has ever voluntarily left a job to do something else really has no business criticizing The Rock or anyone else for doing so. Wrestlers don't owe the fans or the company anything after their contract is up. You guys are misunderstanding/TWISTING what I said. I said many of us wouldn't be supportive of the decision. That DOESN'T mean I'd hate on a wrestler for wanting to get out...... But I sure would be disappointed if Dean Ambrose just up and left tomorrow. Let's face it, most of us would. Respecting one's decision to leave (which I do) is not the same thing as being supportive of it.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 7, 2013 3:39:01 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with The Rock, more how he is booked. They've spent the last decade building Cena up to be the face of the company and then job him to a man who has wrestled one match in recent years. I know Lesnar isn't on a level with The Rock in terms of mainstream fame but every fan knows that Lesnar is a legitimately tough guy (they didn't need to book him that way to get that message across, but it helped). Yet in his first match back for years, he jobs to Cena. Cena lost because he got cocky, one of the rare times that he's done so since he's become the face of the company. The Rock wasn't booked to be leaps and bounds better than Cena, they were booked to be on even footing. Cena could have won that, but he tried to do The Rock's move and it backfired. If they had better writing, Cena could have learned from it. Lesnar, meanwhile, just dominated Cena until the end. It looked like Cena stole a win rather than earned a loss, so to speak. About Rock vs Cena, they did have Rock look like a god against Cena. At Wrestlemania 27, Rock restarts the match, hits Cena with The Rock Bottom, Miz wins, and Rock hits him with the Rock Bottom and Rock stands tall at the end. At Survivor Series, Rock and Cena win, but after the match Rock hits Cena with the Rock Bottom, and Rock is standing tall over Cena at the end. You'd think Wrestlemania 28 was Cena's turn to stand tall over the Rock on ppv, but it ends with Rock winning and standing tall over Cena. Cena did hit Rock with the Attitude Adjustment before Mania 27, but at some point you've got to make both guys look equal. Rock ran all over Cena on ppv, Cena should have stood tall at one of those ppvs.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 7, 2013 3:46:13 GMT -5
I was on Cena's side for Rock vs. Cena
I'm on Rock's side for Rock vs. Punk
It just comes down to who's the bigger douche and who's right. Cena was the most right, while Punk is the least right
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Post by hughgrection on Jan 7, 2013 3:49:43 GMT -5
I was on Cena's side for Rock vs. Cena I'm on Rock's side for Rock vs. Punk It just comes down to who's the bigger douche and who's right. Cena was the most right, while Punk is the least right Cena vs Rock was face vs face. Punk vs Rock is heel vs face. Cena and Punk have the same argument against the Rock.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 4:08:09 GMT -5
Whereas CM Punk wrestles for free. Haha! RIGHT. Except for the fact that he's pretty much openly stated he came back for more money, better working conditions, etc etc, smarking out a bit eh. Come on... .........Isn't that his point?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 7, 2013 4:56:44 GMT -5
I was on Cena's side for Rock vs. Cena I'm on Rock's side for Rock vs. Punk It just comes down to who's the bigger douche and who's right. Cena was the most right, while Punk is the least right Cena vs Rock was face vs face. Punk vs Rock is heel vs face. Cena and Punk have the same argument against the Rock. Cena's argument was that Rock left and didn't care. Punk's argument is that he should be main eventing over The Rock.
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Arrow
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Post by Arrow on Jan 7, 2013 5:01:41 GMT -5
I said many of us wouldn't be supportive of the decision. I got that, which is why I asked, "so what"? It really doesn't matter if anyone here is supportive or not.
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Post by wrestling4ever on Jan 7, 2013 7:39:19 GMT -5
I don't think the impetus is on the Rock to try and get anyone else tv time at all. Really, why would he even care at this point? His role is what he's getting paid to do, he has zero responsibility to anyone else. When he was part of the active roster? Sure, that I'll grant ya, but now? Nah. Part of that is because he is, for good or ill, bigger than the product. They can't really realistically book him any other way; and it doesn't really have anything to do with him wanting it or not. The Rock has achieved a level stardom that mean he IS above everybody else there. WWE needs him far more than he needs them. Realistically what they could do is have him interact with the rest of the roster. Use The Rock's immense drawing power to draw attention to the current roster. They tune in for The Rock, they stay for everyone else. Ideally this should trickle down to benefitting someone OUTSIDE of the regular rotation of uppercarders. Rock has been interacting with quite a few guys regardless. Cena,Punk, Miz, R Truth, Daniel Bryan among others. Main eventers or uppercarders shouldnt matter. He hasn't entered feuds and programs with all of them but he has interacted. If Rock is on the show, people are going to tune in regardless if he is interacting with them anyway. If folks like what the others do, they'll stay. You cant expect the guy to work magic. So it doesn't really matter. I know a few people who returned for The Rock and while watching the program got hooked on some of the other talents.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jan 7, 2013 8:30:58 GMT -5
Rocky sucks!
Rocky sucks!
Rocky sucks!
Rocky sucks!
Rocky sucks!
Am I doing it right?
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 7, 2013 8:41:07 GMT -5
Realistically what they could do is have him interact with the rest of the roster. Use The Rock's immense drawing power to draw attention to the current roster. They tune in for The Rock, they stay for everyone else. Ideally this should trickle down to benefitting someone OUTSIDE of the regular rotation of uppercarders. Rock has been interacting with quite a few guys regardless. Cena,Punk, Miz, R Truth, Daniel Bryan among others. Main eventers or uppercarders shouldnt matter. He hasn't entered feuds and programs with all of them but he has interacted. If Rock is on the show, people are going to tune in regardless if he is interacting with them anyway. If folks like what the others do, they'll stay. You cant expect the guy to work magic. So it doesn't really matter. I know a few people who returned for The Rock and while watching the program got hooked on some of the other talents. It's really not Rock's fault that Miz and Truth didn't get the lasting rub that they should have. It's mostly Truth's for getting caught smoking Spice.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 7, 2013 8:48:39 GMT -5
Rocky sucks! Rocky sucks! Rocky sucks! Rocky sucks! Rocky sucks! Am I doing it right? Fixed. Also lol at Rock asking McMahon to put a Rider/Curtis match over himself.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 7, 2013 9:28:58 GMT -5
Cena vs Rock was face vs face. Punk vs Rock is heel vs face. Cena and Punk have the same argument against the Rock. Cena's argument was that Rock left and didn't care. Punk's argument is that he should be main eventing over The Rock. I'm the opposite. I think Cena was being a hypocritical twat and Punk is right, the WWE champ should have been more important.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 9:38:08 GMT -5
I mean the example many people cite is how he treated the Hurricane in 2003 as compared to how Triple H treated him mere weeks later. I've never even seen any newz about it. I've been part of online wrestling talk since 1996. Unless I was constantly stoned, the Rock/Hurricane talk back then was absolutely positive - everyone was elated that Rock was even working with Hurricane, the Rock was more than happy to do it, and it all ended with Hurricane getting a pin (though it was amidst an Austin/Rock confrontation before the match could really even start). I think the orbiting rumors of Rock never wanting to work with Shawn - which I've heard aren't even true now? - are the only bits of talk I've heard about him refusing to work with another superstar. Rock has nothing to gain by returning - the WWE does. If he didn't want to put people over, he wouldn't be coming back. I fully expect Cena to get the win back at WM29, because I truly believe that Rock 's win at WM28 was putting the rematch in place.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:03:07 GMT -5
Haha! RIGHT. Except for the fact that he's pretty much openly stated he came back for more money, better working conditions, etc etc, smarking out a bit eh. Come on... .........Isn't that his point? Yep. Big Kahuna Burger was trying to laughingly and insultingly trying to imply that people think CM Punk's reason for wrestling is more altruistic than the Rock's and I was pointing out that Punk's made it clear that's not the case.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:04:39 GMT -5
Yes. But look at it like this. Making one movie can take 3-4 months of working long hours. Then you throw in press, touring to promote, etc.. it ends up being a lot of work, which he gets paid a lot of money for. With WWE he does minimal appearances (though I'd argue definitely a reasonable amount to promote his PPV appearance). The amount of man-hours he'll end up putting into working with WWE this year will probably be less than one day of work on a movie set. A few spots on Raw or Smackdown and a two or three PPV matches. In total, it's way less than what he'd get for a movie, but on a "per hour" basis - he's probably making more. On top of that is publicity he'll receive for his upcoming films (of which he hopefully has a piece of the back end on). WWE is a machine with a huge fan base that can aide the Rock in getting more people to go see his films. Let's face it - WWE will probably talk about the Rock 5X more than we'll actually see him and that goes out to the however many million WWE viewers each week. Now, I'm not saying that he HATES wrestling for WWE or anything - in fact, I'm sure he gets quite the kick out of it, but just that the arguement that a rich guy would NEVER do something just to make more money is pretty false. But the Rock isn't doing appearing for WWE instead of filming/promoting his movies. He's doing it in addition to it. The guy may be the only person in entertainment who puts in more go-time than John Cena. He's filming one or two movies (sometimes in different countries) while promoting another, while working on his reality show, writing a new book, doing charity work, AND now doing another hour or two of LIVE TV, in a different city, every week. So, even if the Rock said "I'm not gonna do this unless you make it worth my while," which he probably didn't, it's not because he's after more money. It's because his time is in both high demand and short supply. One of the things that (character) Cena harped on was that Rocky showed up at the building ten minutes before he went on TV. But it's not as if Rocky was just chilling at the hotel, polishing off a bottle of champagne. He was usually arriving from the other side of the country...or the planet. So, again, I'm sure WWE is paying the Rock a good chunk of change for the lead-up to Mania. But they COULDN'T offer him enough money to do it if he didn't want to be there. The money is a bonus. It's what we'd call in Japan "omake." It's something extra that comes with the thing you want. I'm not sure you read my entire post.
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Post by hughgrection on Jan 7, 2013 11:06:59 GMT -5
Cena vs Rock was face vs face. Punk vs Rock is heel vs face. Cena and Punk have the same argument against the Rock. Cena's argument was that Rock left and didn't care. Punk's argument is that he should be main eventing over The Rock. Source? I've seen him say that about Miz but not The Rock.
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Post by Big Kahuna Burger on Jan 7, 2013 11:12:22 GMT -5
.........Isn't that his point? Yep. Big Kahuna Burger was trying to laughingly and insultingly trying to imply that people think CM Punk's reason for wrestling is more altruistic than the Rock's and I was pointing out that Punk's made it clear that's not the case. I used CM Punk as the example because he's the guy The Rock is currently working a program with.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 7, 2013 14:08:41 GMT -5
I fully expect Cena to get the win back at WM29, because I truly believe that Rock's win at WM28 was putting the rematch in place. That, and Rock was the one the vast majority of the audience was paying to see win that night. He was the big babyface by an overwhelming degree, despite Stephanie's silly manufactured attempts at Jacob vs Edward. And anything other than him beating Cena would have left the crowd sad and pissed off. Not exactly the best visual to close out what was the best bought WrestleMania ever. And certainly not a good business decision for those 800,000 extra casuals that made it that success.
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Post by frogsplash45 on Jan 7, 2013 14:17:35 GMT -5
I said many of us wouldn't be supportive of the decision. I got that, which is why I asked, "so what"? It really doesn't matter if anyone here is supportive or not. Because some people in here act like they are above feeling upset about somebody leaving WWE. It was justifiable to be upset when Dwayne left, and it is entirely justifiable to be upset that he's only returning for one or two insta-main-events a year. I'd rather see the talent that I regularly see on television get the spotlight. I respect the man. I mean, more power to him. He can do whatever he wants to do. But I don't have to be happy about it. Now, one might say "He'll make WWE more money", to which I'll say "So what?"
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 7, 2013 15:22:30 GMT -5
I got that, which is why I asked, "so what"? It really doesn't matter if anyone here is supportive or not. Because some people in here act like they are above feeling upset about somebody leaving WWE. It was justifiable to be upset when Dwayne left, and it is entirely justifiable to be upset that he's only returning for one or two insta-main-events a year. I'd rather see the talent that I regularly see on television get the spotlight. I respect the man. I mean, more power to him. He can do whatever he wants to do. But I don't have to be happy about it. Now, one might say "He'll make WWE more money", to which I'll say "So what?" More people will see the talent you regularly see now because of Rock. WWE's lucky to break 225,000 worldwide buys for any PPV these days, bar WrestleMania and Rumble. Rock helped expose an extra 800,000+ fans to their product with his involvement these last two years; meaning that more people --that aren't part of the usual WWE general make-up-- now know who current WWE talent are. Plus said talent makes more money on WM payouts because of his involvement.
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