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Post by froggyfrog on Jan 22, 2013 14:22:23 GMT -5
This is from the Old Observer thread (one of the best threads on the entire forum)
It's weird to think that there was a time where no one had seen the Shooting Star Press. Who debuted it in the US? Kidman? Was Liger or Hayabusa the innovator of the move? When did it come about?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 22, 2013 14:35:18 GMT -5
From what I know is Liger created it and stopped using it after he suffered an injury doing the move. Kidman was the first person in WCW to do it on tv to my knowledge. At the time, Kidman was a clean cut jobber on WCW Saturday Night and had a match against Alex Wright. It was a back and forth match. Kidman did the SSP on Wright. The crowd was stunned and Alex kicked out at 2. Wright pinned him with his moonsault and they shook hands afterwards.
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Post by wrestleauthor on Jan 22, 2013 14:42:50 GMT -5
From what I know is Liger created it and stopped using it after he suffered an injury doing the move. Kidman was the first person in WCW to do it on tv to my knowledge. At the time, Kidman was a clean cut jobber on WCW Saturday Night and had a match against Alex Wright. It was a back and forth match. Kidman did the SSP on Wright. The crowd was stunned and Alex kicked out at 2. Wright pinned him with his moonsault and they shook hands afterwards. Here's another match with Wright from Nitro where he attempted it again and missed his target. Ouch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfN16SHm72Q
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jan 22, 2013 14:48:19 GMT -5
From what I know is Liger created it and stopped using it after he suffered an injury doing the move. Kidman was the first person in WCW to do it on tv to my knowledge. At the time, Kidman was a clean cut jobber on WCW Saturday Night and had a match against Alex Wright. It was a back and forth match. Kidman did the SSP on Wright. The crowd was stunned and Alex kicked out at 2. Wright pinned him with his moonsault and they shook hands afterwards. Yeah, the story goes Bischoff told (I believe DDP or Chris Jericho) to get him under contract after one of the two brought a VHS tape of Kidman doing the move to his office. I love the press, but this thread has me thinking, is it the one move that's lead to more injuries than any other? Vader and Liger hurt their shoulders, Jericho broke his arm, and those are just from attempting it, let alone all the times it's been just off an hurt opponents.
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Post by Angus Mcloud on Jan 22, 2013 14:58:45 GMT -5
From what I know is Liger created it and stopped using it after he suffered an injury doing the move. Kidman was the first person in WCW to do it on tv to my knowledge. At the time, Kidman was a clean cut jobber on WCW Saturday Night and had a match against Alex Wright. It was a back and forth match. Kidman did the SSP on Wright. The crowd was stunned and Alex kicked out at 2. Wright pinned him with his moonsault and they shook hands afterwards. I love the press, but this thread has me thinking, is it the one move that's lead to more injuries than any other? Vader and Liger hurt their shoulders, Jericho broke his arm, and those are just from attempting it, let alone all the times it's been just off an hurt opponents. I would guess the move the hurt the most people would be something simple like a bodyslam or hiptoss or something
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Post by Error on Jan 22, 2013 15:12:17 GMT -5
I love the press, but this thread has me thinking, is it the one move that's lead to more injuries than any other? Vader and Liger hurt their shoulders, Jericho broke his arm, and those are just from attempting it, let alone all the times it's been just off an hurt opponents. I would guess the move the hurt the most people would be something simple like a bodyslam or hiptoss or something I've always heard it was a simple hip toss or arm drag. Just a bit off and you can destroy a shoulder or elbow and it's real bad when training. No clue how true that is though.
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Post by Super Weak Machine on Jan 22, 2013 16:11:35 GMT -5
I'm just trying to imagine Vader, of all people, trying to do one.
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Post by Digital Witness on Jan 22, 2013 16:12:18 GMT -5
I think as you see more highly athletic wrestlers do the move over a long period of time, there's been less injuries. I can't think of a time where Bourne or PAC hurt themselves or their opponent with it.
I don't think Styles has hurt anyone or himself with it either and he uses it as a springboard dive to the outside.
As great as Lyger and Hayabusa are and were, and as good as Billy Kidman was, those guys just aren't the machines that Bourne and PAC are.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 22, 2013 16:24:42 GMT -5
From what I know is Liger created it and stopped using it after he suffered an injury doing the move. Kidman was the first person in WCW to do it on tv to my knowledge. At the time, Kidman was a clean cut jobber on WCW Saturday Night and had a match against Alex Wright. It was a back and forth match. Kidman did the SSP on Wright. The crowd was stunned and Alex kicked out at 2. Wright pinned him with his moonsault and they shook hands afterwards. Yeah, the story goes Bischoff told (I believe DDP or Chris Jericho) to get him under contract after one of the two brought a VHS tape of Kidman doing the move to his office. I love the press, but this thread has me thinking, is it the one move that's lead to more injuries than any other? Vader and Liger hurt their shoulders, Jericho broke his arm, and those are just from attempting it, let alone all the times it's been just off an hurt opponents. The biggest thing with Jericho was that he panicked mid rotation because he lost his bearings of where he was. First time he tried practicing it he landed on his head. He didn't get hurt but it freaked him out. So when he broke his arm, he overcompensated for losing where he was and overrated. With Vader, he changed his mind on what he was doing because Hogan was too far away from him. Kidman's hurt people later because of the added muscle combined with how he did the move. Kidman never tucked like most people do. He just kept doing the move like he was doing a gainer into the pool (which is why he never went straight out)
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Post by wrestleauthor on Jan 22, 2013 16:31:11 GMT -5
Kidman's hurt people later because of the added muscle combined with how he did the move. Kidman never tucked like most people do. He just kept doing the move like he was doing a gainer into the pool (which is why he never went straight out) Case in point: the botch that more than rang Chavo's bell and eventually turned into a story line in late 2004: www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-mxHiZRMfI
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 16:44:08 GMT -5
I remember when the SSP was some mythical thing that I had never seen. I had always heard how dangerous that it was and after seeing Kidman's I figured that that was why it wasn't used very much. Then I saw Liger and others do it and I realized that it's not so dangerous that it shouldn't be done, it's just that Kidman had no idea how to properly do the move.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 22, 2013 17:53:32 GMT -5
i was impressed by Mark Mero's version. I've never seen it like that before.
Though I was even more impressed when Billy Kidman started doing his since he didn't tuck his knees or anything. Then everyone does it that way. Now the Mero one seems more special.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jan 22, 2013 17:55:17 GMT -5
I know we're getting back to the Kidman-SSP debate, but I do think Kidman intentionally did the SSP the way he did to make it seem like an offensive big-impact maneuver. He didn't try to make it look pretty, but made the added momentum of a full rotation seem like a logical way to take someone out of a match.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 17:59:08 GMT -5
I know we're getting back to the Kidman-SSP debate, but I do think Kidman intentionally did the SSP the way he did to make it seem like an offensive big-impact maneuver. He didn't try to make it look pretty, but made the added momentum of a full rotation seem like a logical way to take someone out of a match. I would agree with you if he didn't botch in spectacular fashion so many attempts. Who can ever forget the time that he jumped and crashed back down on the turnbuckle? It's a safer bet to just assume that he had no idea how to do it safely.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 22, 2013 18:01:46 GMT -5
Vader SSP... that must be a site
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Post by YiHammer on Jan 22, 2013 20:16:08 GMT -5
For inventing it Liger still has one of the worst SSPs in wrestling
Hasn't Hayabusa landed on his head twice with it?
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Post by Digital Witness on Jan 22, 2013 20:32:38 GMT -5
For inventing it Liger still has one of the worst SSPs in wrestling Hasn't Hayabusa landed on his head twice with it?
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Post by cruiserfan on Jan 22, 2013 20:38:07 GMT -5
In terms of SSP botch injuries, I'm surprised nobody has brought up Brock yet.
I know that Canadian wrestler Bret Como was doing the SSP in North America in the early 90's at least. Jericho mentions it in his first book and Como is quite well known for it in Canada. Also from what I've read before, Liger invented the move originally. Hayabusa innovated the Phoenix Splash.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jan 22, 2013 20:40:06 GMT -5
I can't really fault Kidman considering the move was in it's infancy and he essentially got the move over before anyone else did. Yeah, there was some botching...but that's WCW for you. I will say the time he knocked out Chavo was a legit scary moment.
Oh...and this adds to my already assumed theory that Vader is a f***ing idiot.
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Post by wrestleauthor on Jan 22, 2013 22:10:21 GMT -5
In terms of SSP botch injuries, I'm surprised nobody has brought up Brock yet. I was just thinking about this. I saw it on YouTube and had the reaction of "HOLY CRAP!" One can't help but wonder what he was thinking.
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