SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Mar 12, 2013 20:08:55 GMT -5
Thirdly... people not booing him is part of what's making him resort to the really annoying cheap heat bulls*** that a lot of people are sick of. Exactly. It is a bit sad that most people doesnt understand this. A heels job is to get people to cheer the babyface. It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Mar 12, 2013 20:23:48 GMT -5
Now that people know it's entertainment I think it's unrealistic to expect fans to constantly scream their head off about things they know aren't real. You can still expect a huge reaction to the top stars and big angles, but that's because people are genuinely excited about seeing something special. People need to stop treating crowd reaction like it's some kind of measurable science. I think in the years to come American crowds will get quieter and become more like Japanese crowds, where they pay attention to the match and react to things that happen instead of having this baseball game mentality where we assume people aren't having fun unless they're doing some sort of chant or hand motion at all times.
I do see the logic in saying that if you wanna support a heel you should boo them though. That is the reaction they're going for, after all.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 20:24:35 GMT -5
Exactly. It is a bit sad that most people doesnt understand this. A heels job is to get people to cheer the babyface. It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison. the only people some fans seem willing to cheer are people who are terrible
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Mar 12, 2013 20:39:31 GMT -5
It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison. the only people some fans seem willing to cheer are people who are terrible Terrible by who's standards?
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,033
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Post by BRV on Mar 12, 2013 20:39:37 GMT -5
Exactly. It is a bit sad that most people doesnt understand this. A heels job is to get people to cheer the babyface. It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison. Exactly. Who should I cheer for? A guy like Damien Sandow, who is a supremely intelligent man who is trying to pass off some of his intelligence upon the masses or a guy like Sheamus, who thinks its perfectly acceptable to go "si, senor" and tweedle his fake mustache when asked a question about Ricardo Rodriguez? They're getting better with the heel/face dichotomy, but there's still a long way to go. A feud like Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger should be the perfect example. You should cheer Alberto Del Rio because he's standing up for his family, his heritage and the country that took him in and you should boo Swagger and Zeb Colter because of the awful, insensitive, ridiculous, offensive things they're saying. It really shouldn't be as hard as WWE makes it sometimes.
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Post by cahuette on Mar 12, 2013 20:39:58 GMT -5
No, Punk's getting cheered cuz people like him. No one's justifying anything. This thread is clearly in reference to last night where Punk was getting "CM PUNK!" chants while he interrupted Undertaker's tribute to Paul Bearer. That to me is justifying it. Oh i thought this was about him getting cheered while he's being a really evil heel in general and that the Bearer thing was just a part of the thread that I could just not adress, sorry, I'm evil. TALK ABOUT DEAD PEOPLE MORE CM PUNK!
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 12, 2013 20:40:29 GMT -5
It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison. the only people some fans seem willing to cheer are people who are terrible Or people who are talented? Few things grate on me like when people chastise paying audience members for reacting the way they choose to within the limits of behavior appropriate to the venue. This vision you guys have of everyone in the audience slavishly adhering to some code of who they're supposed to cheer and who they're supposed to boo is unsettling to me. As is when people bemoan the What? chants. If the crowd chant's What? they chant What?, our discussion of crowds should follow the guidelines of linguistics and be descriptive not prescriptive. The crowd are not part of the cast as much as Dixie Carter might desire that to be the case. A great songwriter coined my username, and he also wrote this: I will choose a path that's clear I will choose freewill If it's such a strong desire of you lot for the crowd not to cheer CM Punk your ability to influence that should end with buying a ticket to the shows and not cheering for him. While you do so I'll continue to go to the occasional show and, when there, chant for my straight edge saviour Christopher Martin Punk. And I'll also cheer for Christian. Whether he's there or not.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 20:46:28 GMT -5
the only people some fans seem willing to cheer are people who are terrible Terrible by who's standards? by the standards of society
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 20:49:48 GMT -5
It's WWE's job to create a babyface who isn't so absurdly terrible and boring that heels seem more interesting and relatable in comparison. Exactly. Who should I cheer for? A guy like Damien Sandow, who is a supremely intelligent man who is trying to pass off some of his intelligence upon the masses or a guy like Sheamus, who thinks its perfectly acceptable to go "si, senor" and tweedle his fake mustache when asked a question about Ricardo Rodriguez? Why should you think that Damien Sandow is at all sincere, instead of being a pompous windbag, who overrates his own intelligence and looks down on everyone else. So many fans are willing to take the bad guy's word on the way things are but not the good guy.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 20:53:59 GMT -5
the only people some fans seem willing to cheer are people who are terrible Or people who are talented? Few things grate on me than when people chastise paying audience members for reacting the way they choose to within the limits of behavior appropriate to the venue. This vision you guys have of everyone in the audience slavishly adhering to some code of who they're supposed to cheer and who they're supposed to boo is unsettling to me. As is when people bemoan the What? chants. If the crowd chant's What? they chant What?, our discussion of crowds should follow the guidelines of linguistics and be descriptive not prescriptive. The crowd are not part of the cast as much as Dixie Carter might desire that to be the case. A great songwriter coined my username, and he also wrote this: I will choose a path that's clear I will choose freewill If it's such a strong desire of you lot for the crowd not to cheer CM Punk your ability to influence that should end with buying a ticket to the shows and not cheering for him. While you do so I'll continue to go to the occasional show and, when there, chant for my straight edge saviour Christopher Martin Punk. And I'll also cheer for Christian. Whether he's there or not. but a wrestler is not just a wrestler, he is part of a story and you are disrupting that story as surely as if you were throwing trash in the ring. Cheering the talent of Phillip Brooks screws up the story of CM Punk
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 12, 2013 20:56:11 GMT -5
Or people who are talented? Few things grate on me than when people chastise paying audience members for reacting the way they choose to within the limits of behavior appropriate to the venue. This vision you guys have of everyone in the audience slavishly adhering to some code of who they're supposed to cheer and who they're supposed to boo is unsettling to me. As is when people bemoan the What? chants. If the crowd chant's What? they chant What?, our discussion of crowds should follow the guidelines of linguistics and be descriptive not prescriptive. The crowd are not part of the cast as much as Dixie Carter might desire that to be the case. A great songwriter coined my username, and he also wrote this: I will choose a path that's clear I will choose freewill If it's such a strong desire of you lot for the crowd not to cheer CM Punk your ability to influence that should end with buying a ticket to the shows and not cheering for him. While you do so I'll continue to go to the occasional show and, when there, chant for my straight edge saviour Christopher Martin Punk. And I'll also cheer for Christian. Whether he's there or not. but a wrestler is not just a wrestler, he is part of a story and you are disrupting that story as surely as if you were throwing trash in the ring. Cheering the talent of Phillip Brooks screws up the story of CM Punk That's such a sad and narrow perspective that drains all the life from it. Might as well fill the stands with cardboard cutouts or rent them out to the local cult.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 21:01:04 GMT -5
but a wrestler is not just a wrestler, he is part of a story and you are disrupting that story as surely as if you were throwing trash in the ring. Cheering the talent of Phillip Brooks screws up the story of CM Punk That's such a sad and narrow perspective that drains all the life from it. Might as well fill the stands with cardboard cutouts. If you say so. Audience particpation has never interested me. I watch to see pros do what they do best, not to pay attention to the fans
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 21:03:40 GMT -5
It's still real to some people, dammit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 21:07:43 GMT -5
One thing that I got from this thread is why people cheer heels even if there heels. I always assumed it was a respectful to boo heels louder if you like them, cheer faced louder if you like them, and sit on your hands if you don't care. guess my line of thinking is just weird. I will still do it as I find it more fun to play along in that regard.
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Post by frogsplash45 on Mar 12, 2013 21:09:44 GMT -5
That's such a sad and narrow perspective that drains all the life from it. Might as well fill the stands with cardboard cutouts. If you say so. Audience particpation has never interested me. I watch to see pros do what they do best, not to pay attention to the fans In that case, you'd be fine if WWE events were performed in front of entirely empty arenas.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 12, 2013 21:17:47 GMT -5
If you say so. Audience particpation has never interested me. I watch to see pros do what they do best, not to pay attention to the fans In that case, you'd be fine if WWE events were performed in front of entirely empty arenas. not sure if you're asking if I'd be cool with it or not but yeah, I'd be fine with it.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 12, 2013 21:19:44 GMT -5
It's the previous failures and botched booking that's the result of the cheers. Watching WWE is a default for most wrestling fans--it's huge and accessible. Liking WWE is darn near impossible so many times. People like "things" they do from time to time, but there's a large contingency that just find it lacking (which is so freakin easy to do).
Ok, so you finally get a true blue heel that's not just chump change and can actually have a shot at winning and/or still salvaging credibility after a loss. Let me go through my filing cabinet and try to find someone since a few years after the death of WCW who's able to not come across as a tool heel who is a pawn for the obvious-to-come booking that awaits...
Oh wait, I can't. The rarity of the CM Punk heel character is so far removed from modern WWE culture that a lot of fans approve. Approval equals applause. Thank you, WWE for vacating a decade of pure suck. The fans watched you and endured. You delivered finally, and now that an actual consistent and believable heel threat exists, people are excited. If WWE knew how to get off their high horse and do it before he arrived, CM Punk would be just another heel in a long line of epic history-making characters. He'd be part of a legacy instead of THE modern heel legacy. So yeah, this is on the company, not the ones who cheer. Their cheers are the unheard jeers that were going on for more than a decade.
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Post by frogsplash45 on Mar 12, 2013 21:25:15 GMT -5
In that case, you'd be fine if WWE events were performed in front of entirely empty arenas. not sure if you're asking if I'd be cool with it or not but yeah, I'd be fine with it. "Welcome to Wrestlemania!" *crickets* "Anyways... The following contest is scheduled for ~~~" Have fun with that.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Mar 12, 2013 21:29:00 GMT -5
Terrible by who's standards? by the standards of society Except society only has the standards you want it to. What is terrible to some isn't to others and there is very little looked down upon by a majority. You want people to be how you want them to be and that will never happen. People are going to cheer who they want, if the people who happen to act "evil" are the people the crowd likes then maybe it's your own views that need to broaden and change and not the crowd's. In this case people are cheering CM Punk because he entertains them and they want more of it. Booing him for being entertaining makes no sense whether it's wrestling or not. People aren't there it be in the show, they are there to enjoy the show and if Punk or ADR or Cena or Shield is the person that brings them that enjoyment, they have every right in the world to express that feeling no matter their on screen alignment. We are fans, not cast. WWE does not pay us, they do not tell us how to act and it will never work no matter how much they try.
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Mar 12, 2013 22:04:37 GMT -5
Ftr, I might've come off as saying there's something wrong with people if they boo heels they like. I didn't mean it like that, I think it's weird that people feel like they're obligated to boo heels even if they like them.
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