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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 10, 2013 16:43:10 GMT -5
Hogan Pro - He's Hogan Con - He's too old to work.
Bischoff Pro - He's Bischoff Con - Nobody really cares anymore.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 10, 2013 17:04:24 GMT -5
It all depends on what the actual numbers and financial gains are (if any). If they're spending more on Hulk than he's producing, then yes, regardless of the hypothetical things he could bring to the table, he's a failure. That's how business works. You don't get the Nobel prize for attempted chemistry.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 10, 2013 17:10:13 GMT -5
It all depends on what the actual numbers and financial gains are (if any). If they're spending more on Hulk than he's producing, then yes, regardless of the hypothetical things he could bring to the table, he's a failure. That's how business works. You don't get the Nobel prize for attempted chemistry. His name value is priceless for them.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 10, 2013 17:33:19 GMT -5
It all depends on what the actual numbers and financial gains are (if any). If they're spending more on Hulk than he's producing, then yes, regardless of the hypothetical things he could bring to the table, he's a failure. That's how business works. You don't get the Nobel prize for attempted chemistry. His name value is priceless for them. What have they gotten with Hogan they wouldn't have without him? Do they have that second wrestling ahow they need to fully showcase their talent? Has he opened doors at other networks to get them shows there? Are Spike TV advertising more because they're the home of the Hulkster? Are they being paid more for the programming they do produce? Are audiences and buyrates up for the shows and PPVs they do have? Whatever he's bringing, I can't see it.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 10, 2013 17:43:38 GMT -5
His name value is priceless for them. What have they gotten with Hogan they wouldn't have without him? Do they have that second wrestling ahow they need to fully showcase their talent? Has he opened doors at other networks to get them shows there? Are Spike TV advertising more because they're the home of the Hulkster? Are they being paid more for the programming they do produce? Are audiences and buyrates up for the shows and PPVs they do have? Whatever he's bringing, I can't see it. You kidding? He totally helped change the face of the company. When he arrived they were doing free shows in an amusement park. Hogan is all over the media. Even up here in CT he was on the radio promoting TNA shows in NY. TNA is touring. They are having success touring overseas. I get the TV product hasn't changed all that much other than a 4 sided ring. I mean just the Brooke Hogan leg tweet was more mainstream press than anybody in TNA has ever had.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 10, 2013 18:12:40 GMT -5
What have they gotten with Hogan they wouldn't have without him? Do they have that second wrestling ahow they need to fully showcase their talent? Has he opened doors at other networks to get them shows there? Are Spike TV advertising more because they're the home of the Hulkster? Are they being paid more for the programming they do produce? Are audiences and buyrates up for the shows and PPVs they do have? Whatever he's bringing, I can't see it. You kidding? He totally helped change the face of the company. When he arrived they were doing free shows in an amusement park. Hogan is all over the media. Even up here in CT he was on the radio promoting TNA shows in NY. TNA is touring. They are having success touring overseas. I get the TV product hasn't changed all that much other than a 4 sided ring. I mean just the Brooke Hogan leg tweet was more mainstream press than anybody in TNA has ever had. They were still running free shows in an amusement park with Hogan. The departure from the Impact Zone was inevitable thanks to natural growth as TNA was showing signs of finding it's feet running live shows before Hogan arrived, it had run successful tours and PPVs outside of the impact zone so it was never a matter of if TNA went on the road full time, but when. As for the publicity Hogan brings, you mean like the times he's done interviews and TNA have been treated like an afterthought, the sextape, the lawsuits, the bringing in Bubba the love sponge thing, the creepy pictures with his daughter... Is anyone going to watch a report that mentions Hogan rubbing his daughter and say 'Hey, I'm going to watch TNA now!'? People have been fired from wrestling companies for far less than the bad publicity Hogan has brought upon himself and TNA in recent years.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jul 11, 2013 0:19:17 GMT -5
To be fair (And I've said this before) about once a year Hulk will get to go on the Howard Stern show and he usually plugs a Pay Per View or Impact or both. Of course Howard doesn't spend the whole hour discussing TNA but 5-10 minutes will be spent on what Hulk is up to now and he always puts TNA over.
Other then Hulk nobody else on TNA is gettting that kind of exposure on that show or any other show. I don't doubt that Hogan gets to do the rounds on other shows also and we just don't hear about it unless we're in that market.
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Post by The Portable Stove on Jul 11, 2013 0:34:23 GMT -5
This is a little esoteric and no one's going to tune in because of it, but one of the people at my job mentioned Eric Young's fishing show the other week and mentioned that he's a part of TNA.
The thing is, knowing about TNA doesn't mean you'll watch TNA if there's no big hook.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 5:22:16 GMT -5
You kidding? He totally helped change the face of the company. When he arrived they were doing free shows in an amusement park. Hogan is all over the media. Even up here in CT he was on the radio promoting TNA shows in NY. TNA is touring. They are having success touring overseas. I get the TV product hasn't changed all that much other than a 4 sided ring. I mean just the Brooke Hogan leg tweet was more mainstream press than anybody in TNA has ever had. They were still running free shows in an amusement park with Hogan. The departure from the Impact Zone was inevitable thanks to natural growth as TNA was showing signs of finding it's feet running live shows before Hogan arrived, it had run successful tours and PPVs outside of the impact zone so it was never a matter of if TNA went on the road full time, but when. As for the publicity Hogan brings, you mean like the times he's done interviews and TNA have been treated like an afterthought, the sextape, the lawsuits, the bringing in Bubba the love sponge thing, the creepy pictures with his daughter... Is anyone going to watch a report that mentions Hogan rubbing his daughter and say 'Hey, I'm going to watch TNA now!'? People have been fired from wrestling companies for far less than the bad publicity Hogan has brought upon himself and TNA in recent years. Still missing the point. If you can't see the stark difference in the business model then I can't help you. Running a wrestling promotion isn't just how the Internet feels about the TV show. Hogan has done a ton for TNAs credibility and exposure. Hogan isn't just on Howard Stern. Pretty much all he does is plug TNA. I told you he was on radio up around here to promote TNA in NY. He was on a sports talk radio. Forget about AJ Styles doing that, nobody knows who he is. Prior run Hogan TNA tried to run up here and it was a disaster. So the thread is about why Hogan doesn't get any credit and you're basically saying he's done nothing. Definitely not the case.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 11, 2013 5:56:46 GMT -5
Still missing the point. If you can't see the stark difference in the business model then I can't help you. Running a wrestling promotion isn't just how the Internet feels about the TV show. Hogan has done a ton for TNAs credibility and exposure. Hogan isn't just on Howard Stern. Pretty much all he does is plug TNA. I told you he was on radio up around here to promote TNA in NY. He was on a sports talk radio. Forget about AJ Styles doing that, nobody knows who he is. Prior run Hogan TNA tried to run up here and it was a disaster. So the thread is about why Hogan doesn't get any credit and you're basically saying he's done nothing. Definitely not the case. This is about TV, in order to be a national promotion you need TV exposure and since Hogan has arrived the audience for TNA's show has shrunk. People can go 'ratings don't matter!' all they want, but with declining ratings, they'll get a worse deal come time to renew their contract with Spike, assuming they wanted to renew at all. Without Spike, TNA would be in a -lot- of trouble. I wasn't aware that Hogan is the one in sole charge of booking and promotion of live events, of getting TNA guys interviews in local media. I thought that was people like Mike Weber, who was signed the year before Hogan for his years of experience in marketing a wrestling company, having worked for WCW and the WWF. TNA was showing signs of growth, signs that it was finally getting the right people backstage and getting it's act together... But yes, all Hogan's doing. All the publicity Hogan brings means squat if he's seen as a creepy old guy, you can't say he's getting attention for negative things and paint that as a positive for the company... Controversy doesn't always create cash, no matter what Bischoff thinks. As for interviews on local sports radio goes, can you honestly say they wouldn't give Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting that same airtime if the TNA of today offered them to a station? While they probably won't get on the Howard Stern Show, if reports are to be believed, that program gets an audience of 1,225,000 in total over the course of a week... Not for a show once a week like TNA, total over the course of a week, so Hogan's appearances on 'big name' shows aren't exactly reaching a huge audience. As for no-one wanting AJ... Is there any wonder considering the way he's been booked in recent years? Nothing says building a marquee name for the company like having him be Christian's minion, Flair's minion, the Claire Lynch storyline... The fact he's even as over as he is astounds me. Like most people in this thread, I'm not saying Hogan has done nothing, I'm saying he has done little positive for the company as he has taken more out of TNA than he has put in and brought a lot of bad press. At least with Eric Bischoff, for all his flaws, you can point at the improvement in production and say 'That's his handiwork and it has improved TNA'.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 8:40:09 GMT -5
Still missing the point. If you can't see the stark difference in the business model then I can't help you. Running a wrestling promotion isn't just how the Internet feels about the TV show. Hogan has done a ton for TNAs credibility and exposure. Hogan isn't just on Howard Stern. Pretty much all he does is plug TNA. I told you he was on radio up around here to promote TNA in NY. He was on a sports talk radio. Forget about AJ Styles doing that, nobody knows who he is. Prior run Hogan TNA tried to run up here and it was a disaster. So the thread is about why Hogan doesn't get any credit and you're basically saying he's done nothing. Definitely not the case. This is about TV, in order to be a national promotion you need TV exposure and since Hogan has arrived the audience for TNA's show has shrunk. People can go 'ratings don't matter!' all they want, but with declining ratings, they'll get a worse deal come time to renew their contract with Spike, assuming they wanted to renew at all. Without Spike, TNA would be in a -lot- of trouble. I wasn't aware that Hogan is the one in sole charge of booking and promotion of live events, of getting TNA guys interviews in local media. I thought that was people like Mike Weber, who was signed the year before Hogan for his years of experience in marketing a wrestling company, having worked for WCW and the WWF. TNA was showing signs of growth, signs that it was finally getting the right people backstage and getting it's act together... But yes, all Hogan's doing. All the publicity Hogan brings means squat if he's seen as a creepy old guy, you can't say he's getting attention for negative things and paint that as a positive for the company... Controversy doesn't always create cash, no matter what Bischoff thinks. As for interviews on local sports radio goes, can you honestly say they wouldn't give Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting that same airtime if the TNA of today offered them to a station? While they probably won't get on the Howard Stern Show, if reports are to be believed, that program gets an audience of 1,225,000 in total over the course of a week... Not for a show once a week like TNA, total over the course of a week, so Hogan's appearances on 'big name' shows aren't exactly reaching a huge audience. As for no-one wanting AJ... Is there any wonder considering the way he's been booked in recent years? Nothing says building a marquee name for the company like having him be Christian's minion, Flair's minion, the Claire Lynch storyline... The fact he's even as over as he is astounds me. Like most people in this thread, I'm not saying Hogan has done nothing, I'm saying he has done little positive for the company as he has taken more out of TNA than he has put in and brought a lot of bad press. At least with Eric Bischoff, for all his flaws, you can point at the improvement in production and say 'That's his handiwork and it has improved TNA'. The larger issue is, in regards to Hogan promoting TNA, is that while he may be trying his best, the end result is a few more people at house shows and less viewers for iMPACT. It's not even about how the "internet feels," it's about measurable differences in growth and success, of which Hogan has attributed to, at best, a zero sum gain. TNA's foreign market and touring has been growing steadily since 2008. What's more disturbing is that people are claiming, "If TNA could just promote Hogan better - TNA would be a bigger success." This statement is disturbing because Hogan's entire presence was supposed to be one big promotional gimmick unto itself that flopped early on (as evidenced by shrinking the audience on average) and now they're trying to salvage it.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jul 11, 2013 13:16:41 GMT -5
Still missing the point. If you can't see the stark difference in the business model then I can't help you. Running a wrestling promotion isn't just how the Internet feels about the TV show. Hogan has done a ton for TNAs credibility and exposure. Hogan isn't just on Howard Stern. Pretty much all he does is plug TNA. I told you he was on radio up around here to promote TNA in NY. He was on a sports talk radio. Forget about AJ Styles doing that, nobody knows who he is. Prior run Hogan TNA tried to run up here and it was a disaster. So the thread is about why Hogan doesn't get any credit and you're basically saying he's done nothing. Definitely not the case. All the publicity Hogan brings means squat if he's seen as a creepy old guy, you can't say he's getting attention for negative things and paint that as a positive for the company... Controversy doesn't always create cash, no matter what Bischoff thinks. As for interviews on local sports radio goes, can you honestly say they wouldn't give Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting that same airtime if the TNA of today offered them to a station? While they probably won't get on the Howard Stern Show, if reports are to be believed, that program gets an audience of 1,225,000 in total over the course of a week... Not for a show once a week like TNA, total over the course of a week, so Hogan's appearances on 'big name' shows aren't exactly reaching a huge audience. As for no-one wanting AJ... Is there any wonder considering the way he's been booked in recent years? Nothing says building a marquee name for the company like having him be Christian's minion, Flair's minion, the Claire Lynch storyline... The fact he's even as over as he is astounds me. . I read another article recently stating that the Stern show got 12 million per week and your article seems particularly negative. I don't think his show is getting 12 million a week but I think 5-6 million per week wouldn't be that crazy. That's 2 million a day (He only does 3 shows a week now) whilst not great it's definitely decent. Out of those 2 million I'd say less than 1% are existing TNA fans so when Hulk goes on he's reaching people who may not know TNA. Here's the link to the Howard article: www.trefis.com/stock/siri/articles/194848/sirius-xm-is-cruising-as-u-s-vehicle-sales-boom/2013-07-09#identifier_0_194848As for Angle, Hardy and Sting. Whilst big wrestling names the only one a sports program is probably going to want is Angle. General radio shows and news show would want none of them. Why? Because they are big names in wrestling but not in general media. In general media Hulk is a name and is one of very few wrestlers with legitimate cross over appeal. As a matter of fact I think only Rock, Cena and Stone Cold could be in the same league as Hulk where people are going to immediately know he's a wrestler and what he's all about. As for the AJ comments, he's been pushed as THE TNA guy for years now. He just hasn't caught on and TNA doesn't have the exposure to build him into something special like WWE did with Cena. A radio show isn't going to care about a few bad story lines if a performer is going to equal ratings for their show. Fact of the matter is nobody outside the TNA fanbase cares about AJ. This is about TV, in order to be a national promotion you need TV exposure and since Hogan has arrived the audience for TNA's show has shrunk. People can go 'ratings don't matter!' all they want, but with declining ratings, they'll get a worse deal come time to renew their contract with Spike, assuming they wanted to renew at all. Without Spike, TNA would be in a -lot- of trouble. I wasn't aware that Hogan is the one in sole charge of booking and promotion of live events, of getting TNA guys interviews in local media. I thought that was people like Mike Weber, who was signed the year before Hogan for his years of experience in marketing a wrestling company, having worked for WCW and the WWF. TNA was showing signs of growth, signs that it was finally getting the right people backstage and getting it's act together... But yes, all Hogan's doing. All the publicity Hogan brings means squat if he's seen as a creepy old guy, you can't say he's getting attention for negative things and paint that as a positive for the company... Controversy doesn't always create cash, no matter what Bischoff thinks. As for interviews on local sports radio goes, can you honestly say they wouldn't give Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting that same airtime if the TNA of today offered them to a station? While they probably won't get on the Howard Stern Show, if reports are to be believed, that program gets an audience of 1,225,000 in total over the course of a week... Not for a show once a week like TNA, total over the course of a week, so Hogan's appearances on 'big name' shows aren't exactly reaching a huge audience. As for no-one wanting AJ... Is there any wonder considering the way he's been booked in recent years? Nothing says building a marquee name for the company like having him be Christian's minion, Flair's minion, the Claire Lynch storyline... The fact he's even as over as he is astounds me. Like most people in this thread, I'm not saying Hogan has done nothing, I'm saying he has done little positive for the company as he has taken more out of TNA than he has put in and brought a lot of bad press. At least with Eric Bischoff, for all his flaws, you can point at the improvement in production and say 'That's his handiwork and it has improved TNA'. The larger issue is, in regards to Hogan promoting TNA, is that while he may be trying his best, the end result is a few more people at house shows and less viewers for iMPACT. It's not even about how the "internet feels," it's about measurable differences in growth and success, of which Hogan has attributed to, at best, a zero sum gain. TNA's foreign market and touring has been growing steadily since 2008. What's more disturbing is that people are claiming, "If TNA could just promote Hogan better - TNA would be a bigger success." This statement is disturbing because Hogan's entire presence was supposed to be one big promotional gimmick unto itself that flopped early on (as evidenced by shrinking the audience on average) and now they're trying to salvage it. How is Hogan promoting the show less viewers for Impact? Impact has been doing the same rating for years now and whilst Hogan hasn't particularly added to the rating I don't think he's taken away from it at all. He's helped TNA leave Florida though and he's helped them sell tickets. Without Hulk, TNA would still be running the odd Pay Per View out of the Impact Zone but they'd generally remain there. Hulk is still a draw, people still care about him and for as long as they do TNA is probably going to keep him hired. He as a promotional tool for TNA never flopped he just hasn't added TV ratings and that could be for ANY number of reasons (Such as people watching it online which is incredibly common these days)
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jul 11, 2013 13:46:57 GMT -5
Hogan's all over radio is a big deal? In 2013? Hey kids gather round the Hulksters going to be on that show with the guy who makes porn stars ride the sybian!!!
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jul 11, 2013 13:50:47 GMT -5
it aint 1997 anymore. most important reason
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 14:44:03 GMT -5
What can I do guys? If you don't get it you don't get it. It's not about useless TV numbers or attendance numbers for towns they are running for the FIRST time. Also I don't see how TNA attendance can be going down since they didn't start touring all the time until Hogan joined... Am I remembering history wrong? Hogan started working with TNA in 2009. Since then TNA went full time on the road. TNA started touring internationally. TNA has sustained ratings and gained TONS of exposure. As for AJ nobody cares about AJ because he's not very interesting as a character. He never was. I don't know TNA has done with him, but he is the same bland guy he was in ROH. Hogan IS wrestling to many people. He has helped legitimize TNA much more than he's being given credit for by the previous posters. Also, he had a long segment on the top rated NYC sports morning show on Wrestlemania weekend to promote the TNA events in the area. You guys can crap on the radio but it's still a lot of exposure if it's on a good station and highly rated show, which for Hogan it usually is.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 15:08:37 GMT -5
Here is something from Wiki
House shows and touring
Main article: Impact Wrestling Zone TNA started running house shows on March 17, 2006.[43] In August 2007, live-events coordinator Craig Jenkins stated that TNA intended to stage eight pay-per-views and 96 house shows outside Orlando, Florida in 2008.[44] In 2008, TNA conducted its first tour of the UK, with most shows selling out. 2009 saw the promotion tour Germany for the first time. On July 2, 2010, MCU Park hosted a live Total Nonstop Action Wrestling house show, which also broke the current TNA attendance record and is currently the most attended live TNA house show in the USA, with a capacity crowd of 5,550.[45]
To me, pulling your largest house show attendance ever it a pretty significant milestone. Going mainstream and dumping the 6 sided ring was important. Leaving theImpact Zone and touring full time in important.
I think TNA stinks, but Hogan has helped TNA. Non wrestling fans have been introduced to TNA. Very few people recognize any TNA wrestlers. Hogan's star power is HUGE. He's not just a wrestler he's a mainstream personality. He is TNAs credibility. They NEED him. They would be better off losing AJ Styles and Samoa Joe together than Hogan.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 15:12:25 GMT -5
I also think if they book his FINAL match properly it could be the most attention they've ever had.
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Post by kamero00 on Jul 11, 2013 15:17:05 GMT -5
Hogan Pro - He's Hogan Con - He's too old to work. Bischoff Pro - He's Bischoff Con - Nobody really cares anymore. Like WCW, Bischoff upgraded TNA's production value and even got their lead show on the road. Their attendance for iMPACT! is about the same as what their PPV's used to draw. Outside of Hogan bringing in his friends when he first came in (Bubba, Nasty Boyz, etc), the product is no better or worse with him there. In fact since Hogan came in, guys like: Storm, Roode,Ray and Aries all got legit runs on top. Prior to him, it was really just Angle and Sting who were on top. In saying all that, TNA is still kind of uninteresting. Only difference between A's and 8's, and Immortal is that one had a title with Hardy's face on it, and the other wear vests
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 15:17:58 GMT -5
- Here are some recent TNA attendance figures…
-6/27 in Ottumwa, Iowa: 500 fans -6/28 in St. Joseph, Missouri: 550 fans -6/29 in Las Vegas, Nevada (Impact Wrestling TV tapings): 3,800 fans June 6th Impact Wrestling tapings in Duluth, Georgia: 2,300 fans June 7th in Rome, Georgia: 1,000 fans
From March 2013 The record breaking crowd filled San Antonio’s Alamodome for Lockdown, making it not only the most attended TNA live event in history, but also their most attended event in the United States. The company’s previous attendance record was set in the UK at Wembley Arena. Over 11,000 people were in attendance, which had broken the record fans set in the UK a few years prior. While TNA Wrestling has always been a hit in the UK, live attendance numbers in the United States have never been considered great. The previous record set for TNA in the US was around 6,000 people.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 11, 2013 15:20:13 GMT -5
Hogan Pro - He's Hogan Con - He's too old to work. Bischoff Pro - He's Bischoff Con - Nobody really cares anymore. Like WCW, Bischoff upgraded TNA's production value and even got their lead show on the road. Their attendance for iMPACT! is about the same as what their PPV's used to draw. Outside of Hogan bringing in his friends when he first came in (Bubba, Nasty Boyz, etc), the product is no better or worse with him there. In fact since Hogan came in, guys like: Storm, Roode,Ray and Aries all got legit runs on top. Prior to him, it was really just Angle and Sting who were on top. In saying all that, TNA is still kind of uninteresting. Only difference between A's and 8's, and Immortal is that one had a title with Hardy's face on it, and the other wear vests I'm with you!! I was just explaining why they don't get credit.
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