Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Dec 29, 2006 21:34:21 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOsr6tOQjoHere's an intergender match where the female team goes over. I know with fat chicks like Mickie Knuckles or a chick like LuFisto who is bigger than those indie guys. We see men and women in matches I don't know about how to really feel about that. I watched Knuckles and LuFisto vs. women and those just meshed better. Seeing guys just brutalize women or (in LuFisto's case) men being brutalized by women. it's just weird to me.
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Post by Vice Squad: Strong Style on Dec 29, 2006 21:39:09 GMT -5
i don't care for it. i don't mind GOOD women's wrestling.... but to me, wrestling should try to blur the lines of belief/disbelief. no sanctioning body, involved with a serious bout, would sanction that kind of match. in the interest of fairness, the joey butafouco/tonya harding celbrity boxing was hardly respectable fare.
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Post by ghettooverlord on Dec 29, 2006 21:50:14 GMT -5
Isn't this basically like every fighting game ever made where the girls are on an equal level with the guys and different attributes are emphasized? I don't see the big deal as long as both parties can give the impression they're on each other's levels.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 29, 2006 22:01:29 GMT -5
It just goes against what wrestling is. Wrestling is like some super macho exaggeration show. The least macho think a man can do is beat up a woman, no matter how tough she is.
While there may be a way to make these matches work, generally i don't care for them.
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therob
Hank Scorpio
Mcginley to Slim's O'neil
Posts: 7,257
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Post by therob on Dec 29, 2006 22:03:21 GMT -5
I like it because it is honsetly the next step to equality. Why should women cometing get treated differently then guys. They go in there kick ass and get more respect because of it.
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Post by odanobunaga on Dec 29, 2006 22:52:52 GMT -5
You guys need to watch more Hustle, Intergender matches aren´t nothing special, they happen all the time. And frankly, when you got Ayako Hamada, why wouldn´t it work?
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nisi
Vegeta
Da Bears
Posts: 9,868
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Post by nisi on Dec 29, 2006 22:53:05 GMT -5
Just hearing the word "intergender" freaks me out a little bit. I don't like the matches for the reasons mentioned--the women end up looking like freaks, and the men look like brutes. One exception I can think of is when it is done with good ringwork but also for comedy. Erik Andretti in the indies has done some hilarious intergender matches this way.
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Dec 29, 2006 23:03:15 GMT -5
It just makes me feel weird to see a guy throwing around a woman
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Post by Vice Squad: Strong Style on Dec 29, 2006 23:30:01 GMT -5
ANDY KAUFMAN
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Post by samachine on Dec 29, 2006 23:34:43 GMT -5
Other than Jazz and Molly Holly I don't believe women are too great at wrestling, sorry. Though they may know the moves, most of them other than the two I mentioned, look nervous when they do them. It's kind of like the WNBA
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Post by odanobunaga on Dec 29, 2006 23:34:55 GMT -5
Why guys look like brutes for fighting womem? Why womem look weird by fighting men?
I don´t get this.
"Other than Jazz and Molly Holly I don't believe women are too great at wrestling, sorry. Though they may know the moves, most of them other than the two I mentioned, look nervous when they do them. It's kind of like the WNBA "
. . .
You don´t watch a whole lot of women wrestling right? I recomend you to do. Search mexico, and Japan, there you will find great female wrestlers, and great intergender matches.
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Post by samachine on Dec 29, 2006 23:38:44 GMT -5
Why guys look like brutes for fighting womem? Why womem look weird by fighting men? I don´t get this. "Other than Jazz and Molly Holly I don't believe women are too great at wrestling, sorry. Though they may know the moves, most of them other than the two I mentioned, look nervous when they do them. It's kind of like the WNBA " . . . You don´t watch a whole lot of women wrestling right? I recomend you to do. Search mexico, and Japan, there you will find great female wrestlers, and great intergender matches. People wrestle in Japan? Wow, you're blowing my mind guy. Joshis aren't women wrestlers, they're big scary women, plus, if you do watch them, rarely do they fight male wrestlers, other than students and the lower indie guys who want some kind of spotlight.
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Post by Vice Squad: Strong Style on Dec 29, 2006 23:39:50 GMT -5
i just don't like intergender matches. it just makes the federation seem like a circus. i love watching old megumi kudo matches from FMW, but most girls these days can't bring it. i liked the trish/lita feud, because they legitimized contemporary mainstream women's wrestling... but the women's money feuds seem few and far between.
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Post by samachine on Dec 29, 2006 23:41:50 GMT -5
i just don't like intergender matches. it just makes the federation seem like a circus. i love watching old megumi kudo matches from FMW, but most girls these days can't bring it. i liked the trish/lita feud, because they legitimized contemporary mainstream women's wrestling... but the women's money feuds seem few and far between. I'm also a fan of Kudo, but once again, she rarely fought men, FMW knew there was plenty of women to wrestle each other and they didn't want to mix their ranks, they felt it was like a junior heavyweight fighting an ultra heavyweight. And a lot of guys wouldn't want to do the job, it's embarassing to them, sorry I wish I could tell you we live in a world where we feel we're on equal ground with one another, but we don't.
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Post by odanobunaga on Dec 29, 2006 23:43:51 GMT -5
"People wrestle in Japan? Wow, you're blowing my mind guy. Joshis aren't women wrestlers, they're big scary women"
...This is a misconception. But I understand were are you coming from, most Joshi legends from the 80 WERE big and scary women. But not all Joshis were, in fact, the most famous wasn´t a big and scary woman at all.(Megumi Kudo.)
"if you do watch them, rarely do they fight male wrestlers,"
this depends of the promotion. In HUSTLE, all the shows have at least one intergender match.
"it just makes the federation seem like a circus."
I agree with you but...Why is this a problem?
" other than students and the lower indie guys who want some kind of spotlight. "
Kikutaro is playing a face perv who tries to score with the evil Joshi from hustle, and he is always wrestling then. Yes, the same Kikutaro from FMW, the same hardcore legend.
"world where we feel we're on equal ground with one another, but we don't. "
Again, I agree with you. But the world can only change if the human race accept that, in the end, we, women and men, are equals. I know I do.
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nisi
Vegeta
Da Bears
Posts: 9,868
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Post by nisi on Dec 29, 2006 23:45:37 GMT -5
Why guys look like brutes for fighting womem? Why womem look weird by fighting men? I don´t get this. Well, men are bigger and stronger than women, and doggone it, people don't like the domestic violence image that comes to mind. Women who are abnormally big tend to look weird, period, even when they aren't throwing around men in a wrestling ring. If pro wrestling were more like a video game, where the female fighters were supernaturally strong and had special powers, it might work as an angle and be really neat to watch. But intergender matches don't tend to be booked this way. Yes, it's all a work, but it still tends to look like the neighbor beating his girlfriend.
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Post by odanobunaga on Dec 29, 2006 23:48:01 GMT -5
"If pro wrestling were more like a video game, where the female fighters were supernaturally strong and had special powers, it might work as an angle and be really neat to watch. But intergender matches don't tend to be booked this way.," Some federations do stuff like this(HUSTLE comes to my mind, and they have intergender matches, so your point is very correct ) "Yes, it's all a work, but it still tends to look like the neighbor beating his girlfriend" In my opinion, it will only look this way, if booked this way.
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Post by Vice Squad: Strong Style on Dec 29, 2006 23:49:57 GMT -5
"People wrestle in Japan? Wow, you're blowing my mind guy. Joshis aren't women wrestlers, they're big scary women" ...This is a misconception. But I understand were are you coming from, most Joshi legends from the 80 WERE big and scary women. But not all Joshis were, in fact, the most famous wasn´t a big and scary woman at all.(Megumi Kudo.) "if you do watch them, rarely do they fight male wrestlers," this depends of the promotion. In HUSTLE, all the shows have at least one intergender match. "it just makes the federation seem like a circus." I agree with you but...Why is this a problem? " other than students and the lower indie guys who want some kind of spotlight. " Kikutaro is playing a face perv who tries to score with the evil Joshi from hustle, and he is always wrestling then. Yes, the same Kikutaro from FMW, the same hardcore legend. "world where we feel we're on equal ground with one another, but we don't. " Again, I agree with you. But the world can only change if the human race accept that, in the end, we, women and men, are equals. I know I do. Why is it a problem? well, to most people it might not be. But I like to feel like a Fed that I am watching has some semblance of legitimacy. If it is merely a circus, why bother with titles? Women's divisions are fine to me... As long as the women wrestling are competent. Although, I'll admit, I'd probably get a kick out of watching the Kikutaro scenario.
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Post by samachine on Dec 29, 2006 23:50:02 GMT -5
I've seen some of the intergender matches in HUSTLE, but the ones I've seem it still makes it where it's like comedy, such as Brother Yasshi fighting one, where he would occasionally get surprised by her moves but generally was overall more powerful. And even the Kongs team isn't the normal Kongs, they also use the sneaking moves in and.. lunch boxes.
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Post by odanobunaga on Dec 29, 2006 23:58:03 GMT -5
I've seen some of the intergender matches in HUSTLE, but the ones I've seem it still makes it where it's like comedy, such as Brother Yasshi fighting one, where he would occasionally get surprised by her moves but generally was overall more powerful. And even the Kongs team isn't the normal Kongs, they also use the sneaking moves in and.. lunch boxes. Don´t forget Ayako´s Moonsault-with-a-chair. Yes, they are booked like comedy matches but hey, all the others have this feeling too, it´s the HUSTLE charm, you got to see guys like Satoshi Kojima doing comedy spots. And this is my point: Does this look like a "neighbor hiting his female friend"? Of course not, because it´s isn´t booked like that.
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