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Post by #Classic Hi-Definition X on Dec 28, 2006 13:06:59 GMT -5
I'm still not sure what to think of this whole PCS thing. Yes, the wrestlers are at least showing some character, but if they don't keep it up AFTER the segments are done (and they will have to end at some point), then what have the segments really accomplished?
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Dec 28, 2006 13:09:46 GMT -5
Take out Nash and they are left with nothing.
Nash is a funny man and he is doing funny skits.
But what are the others doing? They are just material for Nash to use to get over. It's Nash who is putting the comedy in it. And I've said that before, the only thing that will be good for the X-division if the wrestlers learn from Nash and will learn how to cut promos.
I have nothing against the skits. They are funny, but saying that they are helping the X-division is not true, because everything revolves around Nash. You can not have those promos without Nash. If Nash leaves, then what he has build up will collapse.
So that doesn't help the X-division at all.
But we also need to be realistic. The X-division is the place for those awesome spots that people love to see. Sonjay Dutt will never be the number 1 guy. And guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels proved you don't need Kevin Nash to get over in the X-Division. The reason so many wrestlers don't have personalities is not because they are not given the time, but simply because they don't have any personality.
The X-Division is full of guys who simply have a place that is nothing more then doing cool stuff. They don't need to be built, because they don't have 'it'. And if they do have 'it'. They can make it on their own. Daniels did it, Styles did it, Joe did it and Sabin seems to be doing it.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Dec 28, 2006 13:16:24 GMT -5
All I know about it is this. I care more about Lethal and Dutt now than I did before the PCS stuff started. Therefore, they must be doing something right.
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Post by The Portable Stove on Dec 28, 2006 13:24:47 GMT -5
This isn't the X-Division from LAST year. They lost AJ Styles and Samoa Joe in one fell swoop, and they sent Daniels back to the X-Division just to give HIM something to do.
So even though everyone else is doing this PCS thing, it's better than collecting dust on the sidelines.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 13:27:53 GMT -5
Take out Nash and they are left with nothing. But what are the others doing? They are just material for Nash to use to get over. It's Nash who is putting the comedy in it. I have nothing against the skits. They are funny, but saying that they are helping the X-division is not true, because everything revolves around Nash. You can not have those promos without Nash. If Nash leaves, then what he has build up will collapse. So that doesn't help the X-division at all. Exactly. This was all that needed to be said. I'll leave the "Big Daddy Cool" smarks to their circle jerk.
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Post by rrm15 on Dec 28, 2006 13:32:07 GMT -5
Something that no one has mentioned is the fact that the Kevin Nash skits aren't even taking up the whole X-Division. Outside of the skits, Sabin, Daniels, and Jerry Lynn are having a pretty good feud over the TITLE. The PPC is more like Kevin Nash acting like a "mentor" to guys who kay-fabe wise are on the way up. Its not the whole X-Division doing this. And I agree with the sentiment that this is better than the Jackass angle or anything else TNA was doing with these guys before.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 13:33:31 GMT -5
TNA pre-2005 is immaterial here. I totally disagree. It's completely material. Without it, there would be no argument that Big Daddy no-sell's hogging of a spot, payday and push time is a pro or a con within the context of the X-Division. The point is this: TNA's X-Division was its money-maker. It put asses in front of television to buy their PPVs every week, then every month, and to support it even when it was without television in the U. S. for that short period of time before SPIKE picked them up. I'd bet Double J wasn't the draw. Now the X-Division is meaningless fodder for Kevin Nash to use to prop himself up. TNA pre 2005 is totally relevant. Why else would they pull back on proposed A. J. Styles and Chris Daniels main event single's pushes after a successful (but breif) tag team run, only to have them come in and try to catch lighting in the X-Division bottle for a second time? Because they kileld the division and are doing further damage with Nash. Hell, it's not an "X disvision," anymore. It's a "Nash Division," population: ONE, and a bunch of other guys as the guests....
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Post by The Portable Stove on Dec 28, 2006 13:36:49 GMT -5
If Kevin Nash wasn't there, then Sonjay Dutt and Jay Lethal probably wouldn't even be in the X-Division. They'd be facing LAX for the tag titles.
Starr and Shelley would be feuding.
Senshi would leave, cause HE'D have nothing to do.
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Post by rrm15 on Dec 28, 2006 13:37:21 GMT -5
TNA pre-2005 is immaterial here. I totally disagree. It's completely material. Without it, there would be no argument that Big Daddy no-sell's hogging of a spot, payday and push time is a pro or a con within the context of the X-Division. The point is this: TNA's X-Division was its money-maker. It put asses in front of television to buy their PPVs every week, then every month, and to support it even when it was without television in the U. S. for that short period of time before SPIKE picked them up. I'd bet Double J wasn't the draw. Now the X-Division is meaningless fodder for Kevin Nash to use to prop himself up. TNA pre 2005 is totally relevant. Why else would they pull back on proposed A. J. Styles and Chris Daniels main event single's pushes after a successful (but breif) tag team run, only to have them come in and try to catch lighting in the X-Division bottle for a second time? Because they kileld the division and are doing further damage with Nash. Hell, it's not an "X disvision," anymore. It's a "Nash Division," population: ONE, and a bunch of other guys as the guests.... It was putting asses in seats, but TNA wasn't exactly spreading like wild fire in the weekly PPV days. The only thing thats kept TNA going this long is Dixie Carters huge wad of money. And again, Kevin Nash doesn't affect the quality of the in-ring product. Senshi and Lethal can still go in there and have a 5-star match. Kevin Nash being funny won't change that.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 13:42:32 GMT -5
And I agree with the sentiment that this is better than the Jackass angle or anything else TNA was doing with these guys before. No. This IS: MUCH better.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 13:45:42 GMT -5
It's funny..but when I watch the segments it's getting those guys over with me.
My wife couldnt care less about the x division or tell them apart untill these segments..now she can and watches the matches.
I never liked Kevin Nash as a wrestler..but why not use his talent to put a positive rub on the other wrestlers?
Just my opinion..but I'm sure I'll be insulted for not having the right one.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 13:48:23 GMT -5
It was putting asses in seats, but TNA wasn't exactly spreading like wild fire in the weekly PPV days. The only thing thats kept TNA going this long is Dixie Carters huge wad of money. I think you mean her pop. She's got the big say on the project, but I believe it's her father's empire (Panda Energy) and cash. She definitely was the one who liked he idea and got her pop to pony up when Health South bailed, though. Unless he's in it - or refusing to job. And it'd be just as pointless, so why have NASH there? And, it's worth repeating the pic for a lame joke (and because it's a thing of beauty): Here's an ass that I'd definitely like to put in a seat....
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 13:51:12 GMT -5
It's funny..but when I watch the segments it's getting those guys over with me. My wife couldnt care less about the x division or tell them apart untill these segments..now she can and watches the matches. Does she talk about how she's a fan of "Sonjay Lethal," and "Jay Dutt?";P They tried. With Chris Sabin. Nash no-showed the event with anotehr lame, bogus health excuse and it killed Sabin's thunder. Now he's working to get it back. Jerry Lynn had to make the save.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 13:56:07 GMT -5
It's funny..but when I watch the segments it's getting those guys over with me. My wife couldnt care less about the x division or tell them apart untill these segments..now she can and watches the matches. Does she talk about how she's a fan of "Sonjay Lethal," and "Jay Dutt?";P They tried. With Chris Sabin. Nash no-showed the event with anotehr lame, bogus health excuse and it killed Sabin's thunder. Now he's working to get it back. Jerry Lynn had to make the save. No..my wife isnt stupid because she disagrees with your opinion, grow up. And if I remember correctly Nash had a heart condition to keep him out of the ring..which seeing as how he hasnt been back in one wrestling since then might actually be true. And unless you're his physician you wouldnt know either way. The fact is there are people in this very thread saying they pay more attention and appreciate the x division more because of the skits..but people are so blinded by Nash hate they cant give any credit.
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Post by Kevwhatshisname on Dec 28, 2006 14:03:07 GMT -5
Although a couple people have made valid points on how after the PCS is not helping Dutt, Lethal and the rest, I believe that if they all keep their personalities, it would had been worth it. We already know they are great wrestlers, but people here have said that they are paying more attention to them and this could lead to interesting feuds and storylines down the line.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 14:06:38 GMT -5
I honestly felt that if the exact same angle were taking place the exact same way WITHOUT Kevin Nash involved people would be giving them more credit.
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Post by Danimal on Dec 28, 2006 14:25:02 GMT -5
So Joe, a heel, mowing through the x-division cleanly was good for it but this is bad? In what in-ring action Nash has had he hasn't gone-over clean once, except over that dwarf. The skits are getting x-division guys out there in bits that take-up very little air-time in actuality. If you want to blame anyone it is Russo for writing too much material so that not-enough matches are presented.
The PCS isn't replacing ringtime other angle/filler stuff is. Nash hasn't made the x-division guys look weak once in a match and the PP-skits are getting guys out for something other than quickie spotfests. The skits are a good thing.
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Post by Larryhausen on Dec 28, 2006 14:27:57 GMT -5
Here's how I see it.
Before the PCS, I didn't even know Sonjay or Lethal had voices. Now, i know that Sonjay's a bit of a joker, and Jay Lethal is a sarcastic sonofabitch. Now, those are personalities. Not necessarily gimmicks, but at least they have thee foundation to build a gimmick instead of being Generic X-Division Wrestler #735.
And again, Nash hasn't stepped in the ring at all since coming back. He's not squashing anyone, and not "faking" any injuries to get out of jobbing. I still fail to see how he's hurting the X-Division here. He's not in the ring, and is using his talents, mainly being f'in hilarious, to help build up some of the mid-card X guys.
Am I a "fan" of Nash? You bet your ass I am.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 14:40:49 GMT -5
[ No..my wife isnt stupid because she disagrees with your opinion, grow up. I didn't call your wife, "stupid." You just did. I made a joke of what I thought a "casual" viewer might say about the Nash division bit players. I am not a physician, this is true. However, I remember him taking a few bumps after he came back, and there has been no actual proof he has any "heart condition," just reports from TNA. Unless you are his physician you wouldn't know either way... Oh yes, Wrestlecrap is "the world." I base this on interaction with fans and with my own eyes and ears. Now, if a bear farts on wrestlecrap, does the world hear it? Does the world care? I like the w. crap forum and the main site, but it's not the universe, pal. It's a pebble in the brook.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 14:43:12 GMT -5
I honestly felt that if the exact same angle were taking place the exact same way WITHOUT Kevin Nash involved people would be giving them more credit. EXACTLY, so Kevin Nash ISN'T making the X-Division and is simply taking a spot, a check and TV time away from someone relevant! Thank you for agreeing with me!
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