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Post by Chuckie Finster on Dec 28, 2006 15:41:44 GMT -5
Before Nash (and Russo,) we had D'Amore giving us Joe/Styles/Daniels over and over so that we didn't care about the rest of the X-D. I hated how the World X Cup was made to look so secondary. This gives me intrest i the X-D without the title, and that's how an undercard is supposed to be like.
I think this only really works in the end if TNA gets that two hours and they are able to take what they have in one hour (which always feels rushed) and expand on it (mostly to the matches) so the matches are longer and there are more of them.
Also, for the record, I find the PP skits the most entertaining thing I've seen on TV in quite some time that I'm never going to be sick of.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 15:43:14 GMT -5
I am getting it. I have no problem with people thinking Nash is in the long run bad for the division..hey its an opinion. The fact is though you cant ignore the fact that people on this very forunm have said that he has increased their intrest in the division. Looking at the love that people have for Joe, Danielson, Sabin, Williams and Styles there already was a lot of interest for the division. Making Lethal and Dutt look interesting is just giving the jobbers some personality. That's ok, but different then actually making them future superstars which looks to be the opinion of people. The true talent of the X-Division are the guys I've just mentioned and they got over fine on their own. Nobody said they are being made future superstars. They are saying they are least letting casual fans know the differences between each other and half a reason to care when they see them wrestle.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 28, 2006 15:43:20 GMT -5
I just think that people are way too forgiving of Nash, a guy with a history of self promotion, just because he's funny. You are correct, sir!
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Dec 28, 2006 15:44:08 GMT -5
Personally I thought the X-Division died when Christopher Daniels, Sonjay Dutt, Chris Sabin, A.J. Styles and the rest were destroyed by one Samoa Joe. Then I thought the nail in the coffin was Christopher Daniels and A.J. Styles leaving to form a tag team because they were too big for it. Then there were no fueds, and we were left with random playground King of the Mountain games. All I saw was a bunch of Vanilla Midgets. Could Jay Lethal go up against Senshi and put on a five star match? The answer is no because there was no emotional connection. Russo could have walked in and said that Jay Lethal and Senshi were going to be stars and start getting into big matches and he was going to let them go all out. He could say that the X-Division was going to be the center piece of TNA.
Then the ratings would plummet because no one would care. They have no personalities. Hogan had a personality, the Rock had a personality, Chris Jericho had a personality, Jay Lethal... didn't. So why would I want to see them wrestle? Oh so that guy is kicking I really like that, oh and that other guy did a thumb to the eye BOO! The PCS is helping us establish an emotional connection. Yes they are going through dumb skits, dumb skits that make for great TV viewing. Will they have another match come PPV? I don't know, but if they do I can tell you I will care more about them now seeing them wrestle.
To think that this is all we are going to see for now on is stupid. Kevin Nash isn't going to sit around and bury the X-Division, and right now i don't see how this is burying them. Before a wrestler came in the 90's we had vignettes giving us aspects of their character in short skits. Aside from Senshi and Austin Starr these guys just kinda appeared without warning. We need to see their character and why we need to care, that's what these pieces are doing.
I'm just glad D'more isn't around so we have Kevin Nash actually wrestling. And we don't have Styles and Daniels in a tag team, and we don't have Samoa Joe killing off what is left, and we don't have random pile up clusterhug matches.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 15:46:03 GMT -5
I just think that people are way too forgiving of Nash, a guy with a history of self promotion, just because he's funny. You are correct, sir! If he were doing something along those lines..I'd criticise him just like I always have. However..I'm not going to refuse to give someone their due because they did things before I didnt like.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Dec 28, 2006 15:53:17 GMT -5
Looking at the love that people have for Joe, Danielson, Sabin, Williams and Styles there already was a lot of interest for the division. Making Lethal and Dutt look interesting is just giving the jobbers some personality. That's ok, but different then actually making them future superstars which looks to be the opinion of people. The true talent of the X-Division are the guys I've just mentioned and they got over fine on their own. Nobody said they are being made future superstars. They are saying they are least letting casual fans know the differences between each other and half a reason to care when they see them wrestle. Why would you want that if you're not making them future superstars? If you don't want to benefit from a wrestler and make him look good, then he doesn't need a personality. Why would you give a jobber a personality? So it's all about making them future superstars. Give them a personality now and you are saying 'we want to build you'.
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 16:01:58 GMT -5
Nobody said they are being made future superstars. They are saying they are least letting casual fans know the differences between each other and half a reason to care when they see them wrestle. Why would you want that if you're not making them future superstars? If you don't want to benefit from a wrestler and make him look good, then he doesn't need a personality. Why would you give a jobber a personality? So it's all about making them future superstars. Give them a personality now and you are saying 'we want to build you'. These skits arent going to be making anyone a superstar. They are going to be giving these guys the oppertunity to have a better chance of succeeding in getting over if TNA pushes them in the future. These skits are like a foundation to these mens careers in TNA..TNA can decide to build on them or not. Sure..you WANT everyone involved to be a superstar..but reality and history shows that not everyone becomes one. Still...if you give them a personality and set them apart you can lay a foundation for that to happen easier.
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Post by gabou142 on Dec 28, 2006 16:08:05 GMT -5
I used not to care about the X-division, or TNA at all...and now, I must be one of the biggest Shelley mark, juste because they gave him a personnality in those skits!!
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 16:13:32 GMT -5
I used not to care about the X-division, or TNA at all...and now, I must be one of the biggest Shelley mark, juste because they gave him a personnality in those skits!! So..you're saying that Kevin Nash's personality was a positive rub for the x division..at least as far as you're concerned?
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Dec 28, 2006 16:19:39 GMT -5
Why would you want that if you're not making them future superstars? If you don't want to benefit from a wrestler and make him look good, then he doesn't need a personality. Why would you give a jobber a personality? So it's all about making them future superstars. Give them a personality now and you are saying 'we want to build you'. These skits arent going to be making anyone a superstar. They are going to be giving these guys the oppertunity to have a better chance of succeeding in getting over if TNA pushes them in the future. These skits are like a foundation to these mens careers in TNA..TNA can decide to build on them or not. Sure..you WANT everyone involved to be a superstar..but reality and history shows that not everyone becomes one. Still...if you give them a personality and set them apart you can lay a foundation for that to happen easier. But even with a personality they don't have a gimmick and having a gimmick is different then having an angle. With the X-Division the foundation has always been the wrestling. Styles got over for his wrestling, same with Sabin. Daniels however also had a personality and very good mic skills, which is every promoters dream What it all comes down to are the quality of the angles. Right now Dutt and Lethal are without an angle. They are just players in the skits, which are carried by Nash and Shelly. So is Kevin Nash making the X-Division like the title of the topic says? No, he is simply being entertaining and using some X-Division wrestlers to have fun with.
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Post by gabou142 on Dec 28, 2006 16:20:00 GMT -5
I used not to care about the X-division, or TNA at all...and now, I must be one of the biggest Shelley mark, juste because they gave him a personnality in those skits!! So..you're saying that Kevin Nash's personality was a positive rub for the x division..at least as far as you're concerned? No, but the fact that Nash is getting thos guys to show is their personnalities, that's a great thing...even if I don't know how much Nash himself is involved in those skits apart from his on screen presence!
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 16:22:39 GMT -5
No..I wouldnt go as far as the thread title either.
My only contention is Nash is having a positive impact..but if TNA doesnt add to it and pick up the ball concerning these guys all the skits are going to be are harmless, entertaining skits for people to laugh at.
As I said..he isnt making anyone..just giving them more of a chance to be made.
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Post by xsonicassassinx on Dec 28, 2006 16:32:26 GMT -5
i love how they are all legitmately terrified of low ki. even nash.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Dec 28, 2006 16:34:01 GMT -5
i love how they are all legitmately terrified of low ki. even nash. Yeah, he's brilliant as the straight man. Nash, Shelley and Starr are the wacky trio, Lethal and Dutt are trading jokes with them, and Senshi's just looking at them like they're all idiots.
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Post by xsonicassassinx on Dec 28, 2006 16:46:17 GMT -5
i love how they are all legitmately terrified of low ki. even nash. Yeah, he's brilliant as the straight man. Nash, Shelley and Starr are the wacky trio, Lethal and Dutt are trading jokes with them, and Senshi's just looking at them like they're all idiots. i saw him break character once in some ROH match. he's normally solemn.. but he yelled "ah f***"
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 28, 2006 17:41:20 GMT -5
No, it isn't material, because the show you're talking about doesn't exist anymore.
During the weekly PPV days, TNA did not have the exposure it has now, it didn't have the fanbase it has now, and it didn't have to appeal to the same segment of fans it now finds itself having to woo over. TNA could afford to be a completely different company in those days.
Not to mention, even the "smark community" was entirely different back in those days, as well. As late as 2003, it wasn't a stretch to say that the majority out there were still more concerned with highspots/American strong style than they were with developed psychology and flesh-out characters. ROH, "Smark Mecca" that it is, has even been the one leading towards that.
That's not to say I don't want to see more from TNA in the "give me good matches" department, but, again, what you're discussing is a product from what might as well be another era.
Anyway, on the subject at hand, I'm curious why it's bad that Nash is the "heart" of these skits. Guys like Lethal and Sonjay aren't quite ready yet to stand on their own two feet, figuratively speaking, when it comes to presenting their personalities to the viewing public, so Nash is there to give them the platform. What's wrong with that?
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Post by gabou142 on Dec 28, 2006 17:46:02 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong....except if you hate Nash because of what he did before, which is the point most people who are against PCS are coming up with
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Post by tommyvercetti on Dec 28, 2006 17:48:19 GMT -5
I can understand people questioning the amount of positive rub..or the long term effects of said rub if TNA doesnt follow up on it.
I dont understand how people can totally blow off the fact that Nash has had a positive impact on the division.
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Ace Diamond
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Post by Ace Diamond on Dec 28, 2006 17:55:36 GMT -5
All right here's my views. I hated what Nash did to the X-Division his first time around and I felt it helped contribute to the Downfall Samoa Joe's Division Destruction Tour had begun. So when they said he was coming back I'm like "Oh f*** no." When he did the video segments announcing the Battle Royal at BFG I thought they were f***ing stupid. I thought the battle royal was pretty stupid too (A1 and Sirelda?). I thought the Wrestler's Court segment in the bathroom was stupid and went out of the way to do a male ass joke.
So I was wary of the PCS. But I watched it, and I saw Kevin Nash do something he hadn't done ever. He took a bunch of "vanilla midgets" and made people see otherwise. He helped give Lethal and Sonjay a voice, he's not the only one talking and acting in these, he's helping. And this PCS thing ends at Final Resolution anyway, and we don't know where it goes from here, maybe it doesn't involve Nash. But I think he's helped the X-Division wrestlers slowly find indentites, something that they needed badly.
So there, I didn't change my opinion cause Kevin Nash was funny. I changed my opinion because Kevin Nash and EVERYONE ELSE was funny.
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Mista T
Unicron
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Posts: 2,597
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Post by Mista T on Dec 28, 2006 18:21:29 GMT -5
Yeah it's true, it's damn true.
Nash is the only reason I care about what the X-division guys do out of the ring.
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