KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 25, 2006 15:06:07 GMT -5
I get it. Its kind of funny.
If I was in the mood to see something funny, I would watch a comedy.
Granted, its ok to keep it light-hearted once in a while. But I honestly think these skits are doing NOTHING.
I hear people say its giving alot of the X-division guys some personality. No its not. Its them having the same personality they always have had, just Nash playing off of it.
You know the only ones who have strong personalities in these skits besides Nash? Starr, Shelly, and Senshi.
Guess what? They already had those to begin with.
The X-Division is what MADE TNA. Why? Because it was the best in ring wrestling going in the mainstream.
All these skits are accomplishing, is putting Nash over.
Just because its funny, does not mean its good booking.
Sonjay, Sabin, Lethal, Low-Ki, Starr.....what are these guys strengths??
WRESTLING.
A good booker plays to the strenghts, hides the weakness. If they gave these guys actual time to showcase what they are capable of in the ring, they will get over.
Just ask Rey Mysterio, Malenko, Benoit, Psycosis. Guys in WCW, with no charisma what so ever. But, they were over with the crowd because they were putting on exciting high flying matches everynight. They were putting on technical exhibitions the likes of which were not available anywhere else on tv.
These X-Divsion guys can do just that.
Get them out of the backstage, and get them in the ring please.
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Post by rrm15 on Dec 25, 2006 15:28:03 GMT -5
While I agree with you assesment that some of the guys already had personality, the thing is a lot of them don't really get the chance to show that they're more than just flippy guys. A casual fan might tune into Impact upon hearing that they've got guys like Angle, Sting, and Christian, than see someone like Jay Lethal and say "well, why should I care about this guy?"
Another thing is that I honestly don't see how the PCS is hurting any of the guys' credibility. Sure, its funny but its not like Kevin Nash is in the ring squashing them (which is most definately the alternative.) Nash is giving all these guys more of a rub then he gave any of the WCW cruiserweights so far.
You mentioned that a good booker "hides weaknesses". Well, most of the X-Division guys' weaknesses is a lack of personality, which is being fixed.
And lastly, the PCS is just f***ing hilarious.
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 25, 2006 15:36:21 GMT -5
The casual fan is going to care about these guys, because they are going to be putting on the most exciting, and memorable matches on the show. Just like when TNA first started. Casual fans were tuning in to see Styles, Low Ki, Amazing Red, and Jerry Lynn. Not Shamrock, The Wall, and Jarrett.
I didnt say it was hurting their credibility. I just think that they would become more credible through their in ring work. If you can honestly say Nash isnt the one getting the biggest rub off this, then you must be watching something else.
I have seen no improvement in the personalities of Sonjay, or Lethal. Sabins become more diversified through his stuff outside of the PCS. Starr, Shelly, and Senshi already had their personalities before the PCS.
I watch wrestling, to watch wrestling. There are a thousand other shows, and movies, a lot more funny that the PCS.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 25, 2006 16:10:23 GMT -5
Not on any Impact in the last half-year or so, they haven't.
There's nothing memorable about seeing some grab-bag of Petey, Lethal, Sonjay, Sabin, and Shelley in a two or three man match every week, going at it with no storyline, feud, or character-development whatsoever. You see a match like that once, you really don't need to see it again.
If nothing else, the PCS is giving them a chance to at least develop characters that, if nothing else, they might at least be able to play off of down the line.
Exhibitions now and then are cool, but that doesn't mean the guys in them shouldn't have distinct personalities, even if their match has no storyline going into it. The PCS is at LEAST an effort to go in that direction, which is more than anyone put into the X-Division since AJ, Daniels, and Joe initially left it.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 25, 2006 16:17:08 GMT -5
The problem is wrestling and wrestlers become successful through emotional connections.
You talk about how casual fans watched TNA for the X-Division. There's a problem with that assessment. I don't think too many casual fans of wrestling were paying $9.99 to watch wrestling. If they were casual, they would just catch it every now and then on Tv, and if something interested them, they would watch.
TNA, while it is increasing its audience, still has a long way to go, and is far from being a mainstream company.
The problem with guys in the X-Division pre-Russo were all the same. They were regular babyfaces. There was a heel here and there, but they didn't really do anything to make people hate them. With Russo now in the driver's seat, guys are starting to actually get characters.
Jay Lethal and Sonjay Dutt just went in and wrestled, and because of that, became jobbers. Even look at Generation Next coming in. Alex Shelly became successful when he picked up a camera and started stalking Sting and Christian. Austin Starr became successful when he got the boas, the pink and black, and the big earrings. Roderick Strong was a jobber and never came back to TNA. The reason Strong didn't stay was because he lacked character, and didn't have any potential to get one.
Before the Paparazzi, Alex Shelly and Austin Aries in TNA were jobbers. But once they became more then just regular wrestlers, they got a chance.
The Paparazzi segments give people a chance to see Jay Lethal the personality instead of Jay Lethal the wrestler, and from that, people can relate to him. When he's just a flippidy flopper in TNA as Raven would put it, there's no reason to care for him.
Wrestling is important, but I think wrestling is only 50% of the package. The personality is the other 50%. There of course are going to be execeptions, but those exceptions are normally extremely good in either category. And while Jay Lethal is a good wrestler, he's no where near the level of a Benoit, who gets over just by wrestling. Not everyone can be, or will be a good wrestler like Benoit.
Guys like Dutt and Lethal are great wrestlers, but aren't very good workers. That is a skill that needs to be developped overtime, and they certainly have the potential to develop that. Jay Lethal should work on a character more then just "Generic Wrestler who wears Orange".
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Dec 25, 2006 17:01:37 GMT -5
Raven once said that you need personality to get over. You can't use Benoit, Mysterio, etc as examples because they are the EXCEPTION, not the rule.
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 25, 2006 17:07:30 GMT -5
Where in all of this are you seeing Lethal and Sonjat getting personality bosts? They are the same they always were. Now Nash is just there to make fun of them in a round about way.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 25, 2006 17:19:49 GMT -5
Because they didn't have personalities before. Now, they get the chance to talk more. They actually have segments and it's something that's generally consistent.
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 25, 2006 17:21:51 GMT -5
Because they didn't have personalities before. Now, they get the chance to talk more. They actually have segments and it's something that's generally consistent. They talked before. Talking does not equal personality. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Dec 25, 2006 17:23:04 GMT -5
Because they didn't have personalities before. Now, they get the chance to talk more. They actually have segments and it's something that's generally consistent. They talked before. Talking does not equal personality. Yeah, but this time they're actually getting a chance to say something other than "I'm gonna win such and such match and beat this guy and that guy". They're giving they're material substance and showing charisma that they've never shown before, especially Lethal. |
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 25, 2006 17:25:41 GMT -5
You guys are bringing up some good points. I guess I just dont like how they dont split this all up a lil bit. You know? Wrestle one week, skit the next. These guys are great wrestlers. They can get over from doing both too. See Homicide and LAX for referance.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 25, 2006 17:29:23 GMT -5
Because they didn't have personalities before. Now, they get the chance to talk more. They actually have segments and it's something that's generally consistent. They talked before. Talking does not equal personality. That's true, but they weren't really in any interesting situations. With the PCS, they can have different reactions to different things, and it shows different sides of characters. With Jay Lethal, I feel he could come off as a smarmy and sarcastic type of character, but still be a babyface, and Sonjay Dutt could lack self confidence, and always be wanting to impress people, and with that can play the sympathy card to get some good reactions when a heel is getting heat on them. Through the PCS, I just thought of two characters for Lethal and Dutt, and from there, you can run with that. Before, you couldn't. |
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Post by -Lithium- on Dec 25, 2006 17:31:12 GMT -5
This guy knows. The PCS is really funny and I like it being on TNA, but its not really gonna make anyone care about Jay Lethal after its over, and it aint gonna add anything to his matches...
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 25, 2006 17:32:42 GMT -5
It is going to make them care. Because through their skits, they know have relatable personalities. People are now able to relate to them because they see them in different situations.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Dec 25, 2006 17:34:57 GMT -5
It is going to make them care. Because through their skits, they know have relatable personalities. People are now able to relate to them because they see them in different situations. Exactly. Lethal's gained more from the PCS than anyone, especially. He was a great wrestler, but had the personality of a stump. Now he's going blow for blow verbally with Kevin Nash, one of the better promo guys in the business. That's gonna do wonders for his character. |
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Post by MGH on Dec 25, 2006 17:45:09 GMT -5
And without even pointing out what everyone else has, I like this because it shows that TNA wants to do more with the X guys than they did before. The 6 way matches every PPV were fun, but no one got anywhere with them. Unless these guys show some sort of character it's going to be hard to get the fans to support them. They might cheer them or boo them, but they won't care.
I'd love to believe that this 1.1 rating is all ROH fans who have seen that Jay Lethal can be a very good heel. Or people that all saw Death Before Dishonor IV and saw what an unbelievably good job Sonjay Dutt did playing to the fans wanting him to die against Danielson. But sadly it isn't. They have no idea what these guys are capable of, and I'm hoping that in the end this brings that to the forefront.
I will say this though. If this doesn't end up going anywhere, and just kind of gets blown off and we are back to 4 and 6 way X matches every show, then I'll have a problem with it. But for now at least it shows they are trying to do something with these guys.
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Post by dorf on Dec 25, 2006 17:48:33 GMT -5
Where in all of this are you seeing Lethal and Sonjat getting personality bosts? They are the same they always were. Now Nash is just there to make fun of them in a round about way. More character development...both Sonjay and Lethal are faces, but Nash caters to the heels more, since he has been one for most of the year. The reason they are the same as they always were because they were over and its a good thing for a booker to keep them as themselves with more knowledge about the character. Nash...make fun of them? That's his job, because he fears nothing in the X-Division...because SIZE MATTERS. |
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Post by kickassforumguyme on Dec 25, 2006 18:09:14 GMT -5
I think its doing a lot of good for TNA. People like it and its good to put out something that people like.  |
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Post by Danimal on Dec 25, 2006 18:58:05 GMT -5
The PCS-skits are shorter than even many squash-matches, the time they eat-up pales compared to extended promos seen regularly from both companies, especially the E. They aren't taking away from x-division ring-time in any siginificant way. Plus you can't say Nash hasn't given anyone a rub, Shelley wasn't hitting with the videos til Nash came-along. Their chemistry together made the videos something unique. Plus I'd say the other guys involved have become more interesting since the videos. The big question is whether they can carry this over into a more all-around entertaining x-division that can get the higher profile their work deserves.
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Post by Timmy8271 on Dec 25, 2006 19:14:06 GMT -5
I for one like the PCS. It gives Kevin Nash to shine at what he really does great, comedy. And lets be honest, Jay lethal has no personality. I watched some of his "heel" stuff on the JAPW you tube videos and he was horrible. He can't cut a promo to save his life. Sonjay has some personality and is probably the best at these vingettes but he won't get over.
And the most important thing, Vince Russo and kevin nash do not know how to book wrestling so they have to resort to comedy.
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helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
