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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 16, 2013 14:58:09 GMT -5
This sounds like something Vince has all his newly rehired ex-TNA employees say in press interviews. Didn't Christian (Cage) also say something like this after he came back to the WWE as well? at least with Christian it was common knowledge for a long time that he was unhappy in TNA for a myriad of reasons, long before he left. plus even with not being happy, he still gave 100%, as opposed to Rob, who was pretty much the definition of "just make sure the cheque clears".
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 16, 2013 15:16:29 GMT -5
RVD is right. His match quality is the result of who he works with. There is a difference working with good talent in the WWE versus the bush league guys in TNA. Most TNA wrestlers are not even up NXT level let alone WWE standards. Not sure if serious... It's harsh, but I think arrx kinda has a point. The guys in the WWE that RVD has worked with. Guys like Cena, Jericho, HHH, Edge, Kane etc...they're all veterans of the industry that are used to working on the big stage. These guys have been trained to not only wrestle matches, but to take into account things like production, crowd psychology, crowd interaction, getting the right camera angles, working under extreme pressure etc. A lot of TNA talent, as good as they are, haven't really experienced the big leagues and the "WWE style" which, although mocked, is a tried and tested formula. You can argue that Christopher Daniels is a better wrestler than HHH, and honestly, I'd agree. You can't however claim that he's as experienced as HHH when it comes to the big stage, and I think that *may* be what RVD really means. I'd be more motivated wrestling Chris Jericho infront of a hot sell-out crowd than I would wrestling for a company that's stuck in 1.1 purgatory, too.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 16, 2013 15:39:46 GMT -5
It's harsh, but I think arrx kinda has a point. The guys in the WWE that RVD has worked with. Guys like Cena, Jericho, HHH, Edge, Kane etc...they're all veterans of the industry that are used to working on the big stage. These guys have been trained to not only wrestle matches, but to take into account things like production, crowd psychology, crowd interaction, getting the right camera angles, working under extreme pressure etc. A lot of TNA talent, as good as they are, haven't really experienced the big leagues and the "WWE style" which, although mocked, is a tried and tested formula. You can argue that Christopher Daniels is a better wrestler than HHH, and honestly, I'd agree. You can't however claim that he's as experienced as HHH when it comes to the big stage, and I think that *may* be what RVD really means. I'd be more motivated wrestling Chris Jericho infront of a hot sell-out crowd than I would wrestling for a company that's stuck in 1.1 purgatory, too. This is what I assumed RVD meant as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's mind went here rather than the extreme reaction some others have had to Van Dam's words. I love a lot of guys on the TNA roster, but its pretty clear from watching WWE matches and TNA matches the difference in things like professionalism, production, psychology, camera angles and such who has the upper hand. TNA may have better workers when it comes to other categories, but I can see how Van Dam would rather work in WWE for these reasons.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 16, 2013 15:50:55 GMT -5
RVD was perfectly fine with the quality of his opponents and the size of the audience when he was in the main event scene, but when he was expected to give something back and, gasp, get people over he miraculously realised these people aren't at his level. Hmm, I wonder why...
Seriously, he was put in there with guys with more in ring experience than some of the guys he worked with in the WWE, people who can work his style, who could move at the speed he was once famous for, but since they weren't former WWE names and he was expected to make them look good, he didn't care and he's blaming them for that.
I wonder if any of the people saying he has a point will excuse him when he decides he doesn't fancy helping guys brought up from developmental get over... They don't have the experience in the big time to deserve RVD's A-game, you see.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 16, 2013 16:00:49 GMT -5
RVD should have said "sub par?....what are you talking about?....my work has always been consistently good.....how dare you insult me!"
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 16, 2013 17:47:21 GMT -5
Here's the thing though...when was RVD put in a storyline in TNA to get anything or anyone over? The EV 2.0 mole angle? How would that get anyone over? Or the depressing way he blew it 2 years in a row in the BFG Series when it came down to him vs. whoever (Gunner in 2011, Bully in 2012)? The only chance of something like this happening was with maybe Kenny King, but that was the very tail end of RVD's TNA run. Ironically I would say he did get Robert Roode over as a singles threat by jobbing to him on a house show (TNA showed the finish on TV), complete with a post match interview where RVD complimented him. With that win I started taking Roode seriously.
Most of RVD's TNA woes are because after BFG 2010 TNA had absolutely nothing for him to do. Take a look at his PPV results from post BFG 2010: Dreamer, Rhino, Matt Hardy (who was out of shape big time), then the dreary Anderson and Sting stuff, a match with Crimson (more of an angle to start his goofy Lynn feud), then Lynn.
I do recall an angle where Gunner laid him out and RVD did a stretcher job, but Gunner did nothing of note after that.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
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Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Aug 17, 2013 2:03:13 GMT -5
Randy Orton isn't in TNA. Randy Orton is in WWE. I hope that clears things up. just what I was thinking. oh and just what Rob was thinking too!
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Rave
El Dandy
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Post by Rave on Aug 19, 2013 16:01:55 GMT -5
He's at it again!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 16:07:39 GMT -5
Nice explanation.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
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Post by amaron on Aug 19, 2013 16:16:21 GMT -5
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm tired of the wrestlers looking down at the fans by continuously referring to them as marks.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 19, 2013 17:00:48 GMT -5
"SO, my opinion is just my right opinion, but the opinion of everyone else is just a dumb mark"
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 19, 2013 17:40:45 GMT -5
RVD, the question originally was why were YOUR work in TNA in my own words "lackadaisical". It wasn't whose competition was better or anything like that. It was a question as to why your work was at the end, bad. No matter what YOU meant, you basically have said that it wasn't my fault that I was lazy at the end of my TNA run.
The only person who can control your effort is YOU so RVD, as one of those so called marks you have dissed, I would like to extend once again my middle finger towards you.
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Post by Larryhausen on Aug 19, 2013 18:06:43 GMT -5
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm tired of the wrestlers looking down at the fans by continuously referring to them as marks. Not to flame or anything, but a lot of wrestlers are tired of fans thinking they know more about how things work than they do.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
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Post by amaron on Aug 19, 2013 18:14:43 GMT -5
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm tired of the wrestlers looking down at the fans by continuously referring to them as marks. Not to flame or anything, but a lot of wrestlers are tired of fans thinking they know more about how things work than they do. Absolutely. They both should just stop.
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Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on Aug 19, 2013 18:33:21 GMT -5
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm tired of the wrestlers looking down at the fans by continuously referring to them as marks. Not to flame or anything, but a lot of wrestlers are tired of fans thinking they know more about how things work than they do. It's like any industry where people are given a glimpse of backstage. They think because they know a few terms and how a couple of things work they know how the industry as a whole works. Doesn't matter if it's wrestling, film, theatre, comic books etc. a lot of fans confuse some knowledge with understanding of the whole industry. That's not saying people aren't allowed to have opinions unless they've worked in the industry but that you should judge on what you see rather than what you think you know.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 19, 2013 19:26:01 GMT -5
Say what you like about Kurt Angle or the Dudleys, they'll work with anyone they're asked to and do their best to get a passable match from them. TNA had the Dudleys work with a 20 years past their prime Nasty Boys and they did so without any complaint, then got into the best shape of their careers to show the company they deserved better while RVD decided putting people was beneath him and shortchanged the audience. Maybe guys like Kenny King and Zema Ion would be even better after a stint in WWE developmental, but that wouldn't have made much difference to the quality of their matches against RVD, who simply didn't want to help them look good. I would love to know where RVD, talent purist was when he was working in ECW with the likes of the Rottens and Balls Mahoney, or when he was working with bland/green OVW/DSW/FCW guys in the 2000's WWE. Not saying he's wrong, but I'm tired of the wrestlers looking down at the fans by continuously referring to them as marks. Not to flame or anything, but a lot of wrestlers are tired of fans thinking they know more about how things work than they do. They can blame ECW and the attitude era for that, guys like RVD made a lot of money in the era where the curtain was peeled back so they forfeited their rights to complain about smart marks critiquing their work as though they're insiders. It wasn't the fanbase who decided they needed to know the insider lingo and how things are worked, we weren't the ones who stripped away the illusion that it was a sporting contest rather than a performance art, it was the wrestlers, bookers and promoters.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 20, 2013 1:32:56 GMT -5
While I completely understand the "from a wrestlers perspective versus from a fan's perspective" thing in that I think he's referring to how the WWE has a more safe style and more professionalism probably and such things that a wrestler cares about...
He totally loses me when he insults the fans and calls them marks. How is it that wrestlers think its OK to put down their own fanbase. Wrestling personalities need to think about dropping the word mark from their vocabulary completely because looking down on your own fans like that is just gross.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
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This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 20, 2013 1:35:52 GMT -5
Not to flame or anything, but a lot of wrestlers are tired of fans thinking they know more about how things work than they do. It's like any industry where people are given a glimpse of backstage. They think because they know a few terms and how a couple of things work they know how the industry as a whole works. Doesn't matter if it's wrestling, film, theatre, comic books etc. a lot of fans confuse some knowledge with understanding of the whole industry. That's not saying people aren't allowed to have opinions unless they've worked in the industry but that you should judge on what you see rather than what you think you know. While I undestand how that can be frustrating putting down your own fanbase like that is not a very mature response to it.
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Post by jimmyjames on Aug 20, 2013 1:49:37 GMT -5
Because he's actually motivated unlike in TNA where they didn't expect him to put in any effort and instead go through the motions. I also wonder if it's because he knew he could get away with half-assing it in TNA, and still be a top contender and title holder, whereas in the WWE, if he doesn't put in at least 110%, they'd future endeavor him a second.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 20, 2013 3:24:23 GMT -5
Because he's actually motivated unlike in TNA where they didn't expect him to put in any effort and instead go through the motions. I also wonder if it's because he knew he could get away with half-assing it in TNA, and still be a top contender and title holder, whereas in the WWE, if he doesn't put in at least 110%, they'd future endeavor him a second. Bingo. Dixie is too much of a mark to call out someone popular on half-assing it.
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