WCW Lightheavyweight Division in 1992

[Madagascar Fred]

if f'n Bill Watts didn't appear back then, I think WCW could have built an awesome Lightheavyweight Division (assuming the weight limit wouldn't have been too low):
they already had
Brian Pillman
Jushin Thunder Liger (after the Superbrawl 2 loss to Pillman, he only appeared in the NWA Tag title tournament with Pillman, and at Starrcade in December in that stupid match involving Erik Watts)
Brad Armstrong
Scott Flamingo (introduced a bit later on, I think in May)
Ricky Morton

and they could have gotten
Jerry Lynn
Lightning Kid
El Samurai (they had that NJPW connection)
Dean Malenko (appeared on June's Clash Of The Champions)
Scorpio (who only debuted in late 92, when the LHW title disappeared already)
Chris Benoit (see Malenko)

I will always hate Watts for this! not that I believe Dusty or Flair would have given the LHW division any kind of significance

[Deleted]

Liger blew my mind when I first saw him in WCW as a kid.

One of the funnier things from that era was that Watts came in and banned top rope moves etc. and then about a month later WCW aired a Liger hype video which mostly consisted of him doing all manner of crazy top rope moves.

[Vice honcho room temperature]

When Watts banned top rope moves did they announce it on air or was it just something that just happened

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2013 14:39:08 GMT -5 Vice honcho room temperature said:

When Watts banned top rope moves did they announce it on air or was it just something that just happened

I think that it was announced on air, I definitely remember reading about in a WCW magazine interview with Watts.

[cabbageboy]

Watching old Global shows made me wonder why WCW signed Scotty Flamingo in 1992 but didn't bother with Lynn or Lightning Kid. Scotty was a solid wrestler but does he really strike anyone as a guy you'd put a cruiser belt on?

The whole top rope ban really showed how out of touch Watts was in 1992. Even then a wild light heavy division could have really differentiated the WCW product from the WWF. The wrestling under Watts was actually good for the most part, but it's kinda dull ground based stuff. I still don't get why coming off the top rope is supposed to be bad. Oddly enough in the WWF I'd notice remnants of this mentality when Earl Hebner would use a 5 count just for a guy being on the top rope. Huh?

[Clawley Race]

Counting on the top rope makes sense to me. The ropes are outside of the ring...or at least not inside of it. Thats why touching the rope constitutes a break from a submission hold.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Aug 31, 2013 14:39:08 GMT -5 Vice honcho room temperature said:

When Watts banned top rope moves did they announce it on air or was it just something that just happened

Not sure how it was introduced, but I definitely knew of the rule and I was super, super casual WCW fan.

I loved the Pillman vs. Flamingo match, want to see it was at Beach Blast?

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

It's not like there wasn't an easy fix, only ban them in heavyweight matches.

That rule wasn't outdated in 1992, it was outdated in 1986, with guys like Superfly and Randy Savage out there, hell one of Ric Flair's spots was going to the top rope to be thrown off, which becomes really stupid with that rule.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Sept 1, 2013 2:09:34 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

It's not like there wasn't an easy fix, only ban them in heavyweight matches.

That rule wasn't outdated in 1992, it was outdated in 1986, with guys like Superfly and Randy Savage out there, hell one of Ric Flair's spots was going to the top rope to be thrown off, which becomes really stupid with that rule.

To be fair, it's always illegal to be on the top rope, you just normally get a 5 count.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Sept 1, 2013 3:19:07 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Sept 1, 2013 2:09:34 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

It's not like there wasn't an easy fix, only ban them in heavyweight matches.

That rule wasn't outdated in 1992, it was outdated in 1986, with guys like Superfly and Randy Savage out there, hell one of Ric Flair's spots was going to the top rope to be thrown off, which becomes really stupid with that rule.

To be fair, it's always illegal to be on the top rope, you just normally get a 5 count.

Yeah but that's a rule in the 'closed fists are illegal' way, no one cares.

[Deleted]

I recall a couple of instances when the Barbarian was DQed for going off of the top rope. Once, he did his old finisher of the flying headbutt. Another time, he did a flying shoulder tackle. The announcers explained that maybe the Barbarian forgot about the rule.

[mrjl]

Sept 1, 2013 7:54:43 GMT -5 @sandman said:

I recall a couple of instances when the Barbarian was DQed for going off of the top rope. Once, he did his old finisher of the flying headbutt. Another time, he did a flying shoulder tackle. The announcers explained that maybe the Barbarian forgot about the rule.

that was a common thing

Hell, they once did a six man tag with Brian Pillman where he hit a flying crossbody and it was basically against the smaller job guys so it seems likely that wasn't the intended end

[Sam Punk]

Sept 1, 2013 2:09:34 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

It's not like there wasn't an easy fix, only ban them in heavyweight matches.

This would have made a lot of sense. By limiting the high-flying action to the cruisers, their matches would really stand out more.

[Slingshot Suplay]

I loved the Lightheavyweight belt.

[buttersock]

How the hell did they explain the belt's demise? One second, I see Scotty Flamingo winning the belt from Pillman from Beach Blast, the next, I see the belt is not there in the second half of 1992. Did it just fade way without explanation? I never got my cable back until Halloween Havok, so I had to follow everything at video rental stores.

[BlackoutCreature]

Sept 2, 2013 5:49:26 GMT -5 buttersock said:

How the hell did they explain the belt's demise? One second, I see Scotty Flamingo winning the belt from Pillman from Beach Blast, the next, I see the belt is not there in the second half of 1992. Did it just fade way without explanation? I never got my cable back until Halloween Havok, so I had to follow everything at video rental stores.

If I remember correctly Brad Armstrong was the final champ and he had to vacate the title due to an injury. WCW said they were gonna have a tournament for the vacant title and then just kinda forgot about it.

[mrjl]

Sept 2, 2013 7:25:55 GMT -5 BlackoutCreature said:

Sept 2, 2013 5:49:26 GMT -5 buttersock said:

How the hell did they explain the belt's demise? One second, I see Scotty Flamingo winning the belt from Pillman from Beach Blast, the next, I see the belt is not there in the second half of 1992. Did it just fade way without explanation? I never got my cable back until Halloween Havok, so I had to follow everything at video rental stores.

If I remember correctly Brad Armstrong was the final champ and he had to vacate the title due to an injury. WCW said they were gonna have a tournament for the vacant title and then just kinda forgot about it.

that's how it went down, and it also led to Pillman's heel turn, the use of the clip as a finisher and the formation of the Hollywood Blondes.

Armstrong was supposed to defend the belt against Pillman, got hurt and was stripped of it and Pillman was pissed. There might have been an assault. Then Pillman comes out on crutches on a show and calls out Armstrong. Says he got hurt, apologizes saying he now realizes how injuries can happen and it wasn't Armstrong's fault. Then he clips him and attacks him with the crutch he was using.

Austin and Pillman were teamed up against Armstrong and a partner

[bitteroldman]

Banning top rope maneuvers was like the AWA banning the piledriver. Wrestlers still used it (notably Nick Bockwinkel) but now you had to figure out a way to distract the ref or you'd be DQ'ed. Watts said the idea was to give anything off the top rope more of an impact (literally and figuratively) and I think he was right. Piledrivers were sold as death incarnate when they were banned and a simple top rope splash or cross-body could have been done the same way. Amateur wrestling has holds that are banned, such a s the full nelson and joint locks such as an arm bar or double wrist lock so why not have illegal moves in pro wrestling? It keeps kayfabe alive, which is something that's sorely missing in today's pro wrestling where guys take one top rope move after another and a minute later are returning the favor; there's just no realism to it any more

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Sept 2, 2013 10:14:18 GMT -5 bitteroldman said:

Banning top rope maneuvers was like the AWA banning the piledriver. Wrestlers still used it (notably Nick Bockwinkel) but now you had to figure out a way to distract the ref or you'd be DQ'ed. Watts said the idea was to give anything off the top rope more of an impact (literally and figuratively) and I think he was right. Piledrivers were sold as death incarnate when they were banned and a simple top rope splash or cross-body could have been done the same way. Amateur wrestling has holds that are banned, such a s the full nelson and joint locks such as an arm bar or double wrist lock so why not have illegal moves in pro wrestling? It keeps kayfabe alive, which is something that's sorely missing in today's pro wrestling where guys take one top rope move after another and a minute later are returning the favor; there's just no realism to it any more

I'd say it's a little different than a Piledriver ban.

A Piledriver ban is one move, a top rope move ban is removing a whole field of play. It's banning a situation, it might as well be 'no contact outside the ring' or 'no moves when an opponant is on the ground'.

Off the top rope, you can do moves to a standing or grounded opponant, it can be a striking move or one that leads to a pin, a transition or finisher. It's more than taking a move, it's taking away a whole style of wrestling.

[Digital Witness]

Aug 31, 2013 14:05:08 GMT -5 Madagascar Fred said:

if f'n Bill Watts didn't appear back then, I think WCW could have built an awesome Lightheavyweight Division (assuming the weight limit wouldn't have been too low):
they already had
Brian Pillman
Jushin Thunder Liger (after the Superbrawl 2 loss to Pillman, he only appeared in the NWA Tag title tournament with Pillman, and at Starrcade in December in that stupid match involving Erik Watts)
Brad Armstrong
Scott Flamingo (introduced a bit later on, I think in May)
Ricky Morton

and they could have gotten
Jerry Lynn
Lightning Kid
El Samurai (they had that NJPW connection)
Dean Malenko (appeared on June's Clash Of The Champions)
Scorpio (who only debuted in late 92, when the LHW title disappeared already)
Chris Benoit (see Malenko)

I will always hate Watts for this! not that I believe Dusty or Flair would have given the LHW division any kind of significance

Was 2 Cold Scorpio a Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight? He always seemed a tad beefy for a division like that despite being able to fly.

With that said, a division built around a stealth healthy Brian Pillman, Brad Armstrong, Scotty Flamingo, Jerry Lynn, Lightning Kid, Malenko and Benoit would have been amazing. Also, Owen Hart and the soon to be Rob Van Dam were in WCW in 93 for a cup of coffee and could have contributed to that as well which would have been off the charts. Also, with the New Japan connection, you would have had Liger, El Samurai, Kanemoto in the Tiger Mask gimmick, Eddie Guerrero as either himself or Black Tiger, Jericho could have came in earlier, Shinjiro Otani, Jado and Gedo. I believe Negro Casas was also working New Japan around that time.

They could have also got crusierweights outside of Japan that were involved in the Super J cup around that time. Hayabusa, Taka Michinoku, Great Sasuke, and Super Delfin could have all contributed. Art Barr could have come in with Guerrero as Los Gringos Locos. I'm sure we would have got Ultimo Dragon sooner.

Just imagine WCW being the ones to bring that style to the U.S. before ECW was able to. Would ECW have been able to say they brought lucha to the states first if that had happened or would Konnan and company arrived in WCW earlier?

Man, the possibilities could have made for an even better cruiserweight division than we got.