Does Orton need to win clean at NoC?

[Red Impact]

They don't need to make Orton look like a force to be reckoned with, his 9 previous world title reigns do that. It'd be like saying Cena needs a clean win over Bryan to show that Cena is a threat. The guy getting elevated to a new position needs to be established, not the guy who has been there multiple times.

[Hit Girl]

He's a heel who benefits from corporate abuse. He doesn't need to win clean. In fact, it would be pointless for him to do so.

[The Ichi]

The point of this angle is to get sympathy for Bryan, that's not really going to happen if he loses fair and square since he wont have much of an argument anymore.

[cabbageboy]

I think people are misunderstanding the point of this angle (and really, why it is stupid). HHH's commentary on Bryan is meta criticism that doesn't extend into the actual match. He feels the guy isn't a draw or an ideal guy to build the company around. Bryan getting some wins over Orton is meaningless to HHH because at the end of the day Orton is still the guy he wants to have on top and Bryan isn't. Therein lies the severe problem with this angle. No matter what Bryan does there's no reason why he can convince HHH he is a top guy. Winning a match vs. Orton doesn't really resolve that.

[AdamAFL was sooooo wrong]

Sept 13, 2013 17:26:37 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

I think people are misunderstanding the point of this angle (and really, why it is stupid). HHH's commentary on Bryan is meta criticism that doesn't extend into the actual match. He feels the guy isn't a draw or an ideal guy to build the company around. Bryan getting some wins over Orton is meaningless to HHH because at the end of the day Orton is still the guy he wants to have on top and Bryan isn't. Therein lies the severe problem with this angle. No matter what Bryan does there's no reason why he can convince HHH he is a top guy. Winning a match vs. Orton doesn't really resolve that.

No but Bryan's goal isn't to change HHH's mind. Bryan has said since the start that he's not bothered what's best for business he just wants to be WWE Champion because it's what he's dreamed of since he was a kid. So Bryan winning the title might not make HHH change his mind but Bryan will be happy having achieved his dream and Hunter will be upset that his chosen "face of the WWE" lost the title and ergo isn't technically the face of the company any more (in kayfabe terms the Champ is obviously the face of the company).

[Deleted]

Doesn't really matter at this point.

HHH's logic in this story line would basically be, "People want to see Orton win, lose or pose. Bryan could put on eleventy-hundred 10 star matches and that would be as good for business."

Which is why the story does indeed suck. Its not that Bryan's getting squashed or anything like that, its that they're writing themselves into a corner.

Bryan wins - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan makes the fans cheer like crazy - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan sells tons of t-shirts - Doesn't matter. He's not best for business.

All because of this vague "best for business" thing which is never really explained.

I mean is, "tall and beardless" the only criteria for "best for business"?

[rnrk supports BLM]

"Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat."

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 17:39:46 GMT -5 @personman01 said:

Doesn't really matter at this point.

HHH's logic in this story line would basically be, "People want to see Orton win, lose or pose. Bryan could put on eleventy-hundred 10 star matches and that would be as good for business."

Which is why the story does indeed suck. Its not that Bryan's getting squashed or anything like that, its that they're writing themselves into a corner.

Bryan wins - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan makes the fans cheer like crazy - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan sells tons of t-shirts - Doesn't matter. He's not best for business.

All because of this vague "best for business" thing which is never really explained.

I mean is, "tall and beardless" the only criteria for "best for business"?

You are very, very right about that. It does put quite the damper on an angle when getting a big win in the end doesn't mean squat.

On a related note, they haven't gotten nearly enough mileage out of Daniel Bryan pinning John Cena clean. It's barely been mentioned.

[fart]

I'm callin a screwy last minute dq blizzard finishe on this one, one which alludes to bryan's eventual unforseen obstacle climbed and title recaptured.

[Deleted]

This needs to be a Jeff Jarrett TNA Title Match absolute overbooked mess. Seriously.

I want Bryan to get repeated, believable nearfalls only for the Shield or HHH to interfere in some way over and over again. I want them to beat the daylights of Bryan but just have him keep fighting back over and over until eventually everyone swarms him and even he can't overcome it. I want this because I want them to call back to it down the road and for THAT to finally be the moment where the roster rebels and goes to war with Bryan.

[avenger]

Orton beating Bryan clean kills the angle stone dead (and kills Bryan as a main eventer). This is too big an angle to end it after four weeks.

This angle ends in the main event of Wrestlemania, and Bryan doesn't win the title until then.

They can keep Bryan at the top without facing Orton by having Bryan get his hands on HHH (or whoever turns on him at Night of Champions) at Battleground, then having Orton and Bryan in the same Survivor Series match. Maybe have Orton drop the title at TLC to someone like Big Show, only for the real Face of the Company to return (yes, I'm suggesting turning Cena heel, if only short term) and beat him for the title. Bryan then wins the Royal Rumble, going on to beat Cena at Mania.

If Cena doesn't turn heel, you can have HHH beat Big Show for the title.

[Straight Edge Scrotum]

I honestly think it won't change anything either way. Bryan fans would complain, threaten to quit watching, then tune in for RAW the next night like nothing ever happened. The only difference is in the amount of online hilarity.

[mrbananagrabber]

Orton's been a top card guy for years, people don't need to know how good he is.

Bryan's been "told" he's a b-list guy that should be feuding for the Cruiserweight belt. He should be murdering Orton before losing to some form of shenanigans so Orton can steal a victory.

Y'know, so we can boo him and stuff.

["American Nightmare" B.B. Bart]

Sept 13, 2013 17:39:46 GMT -5 @personman01 said:

Doesn't really matter at this point.

HHH's logic in this story line would basically be, "People want to see Orton win, lose or pose. Bryan could put on eleventy-hundred 10 star matches and that would be as good for business."

Which is why the story does indeed suck. Its not that Bryan's getting squashed or anything like that, its that they're writing themselves into a corner.

Bryan wins - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan makes the fans cheer like crazy - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan sells tons of t-shirts - Doesn't matter. He's not best for business.

All because of this vague "best for business" thing which is never really explained.

I mean is, "tall and beardless" the only criteria for "best for business"?

Best for business = H feeding his own ego and picking someone he can mould into his own "Corporate Champion" to be the face of the company.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 17:39:46 GMT -5 @personman01 said:

Doesn't really matter at this point.

HHH's logic in this story line would basically be, "People want to see Orton win, lose or pose. Bryan could put on eleventy-hundred 10 star matches and that would be as good for business."

Which is why the story does indeed suck. Its not that Bryan's getting squashed or anything like that, its that they're writing themselves into a corner.

Bryan wins - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan makes the fans cheer like crazy - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan sells tons of t-shirts - Doesn't matter. He's not best for business.

All because of this vague "best for business" thing which is never really explained.

I mean is, "tall and beardless" the only criteria for "best for business"?

...Or Triple H is just full of crap.

Seriously, you're overthinking this.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 20:22:00 GMT -5 @rrnew said:

Sept 13, 2013 17:39:46 GMT -5 @personman01 said:

Doesn't really matter at this point.

HHH's logic in this story line would basically be, "People want to see Orton win, lose or pose. Bryan could put on eleventy-hundred 10 star matches and that would be as good for business."

Which is why the story does indeed suck. Its not that Bryan's getting squashed or anything like that, its that they're writing themselves into a corner.

Bryan wins - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan makes the fans cheer like crazy - doesn't matter. He's not best for business.
Bryan sells tons of t-shirts - Doesn't matter. He's not best for business.

All because of this vague "best for business" thing which is never really explained.

I mean is, "tall and beardless" the only criteria for "best for business"?

...Or Triple H is just full of crap.

Seriously, you're overthinking this.

Haha, I can assure you I put the minimal amount of thought into that.

I get that HHH is full of it, but the only endgame is HHH getting fired now - making the REAL story about HHH and whoever fires him, not about Orton v Bryan

[SEAN CARLESS]

Sept 13, 2013 19:18:57 GMT -5 Straight Edge Scrotum said:

I honestly think it won't change anything either way. Bryan fans would complain, threaten to quit watching, then tune in for RAW the next night like nothing ever happened. The only difference is in the amount of online hilarity.

Doesn't negate the fact that they would still be right in their criticisms.

Wait.


Doesn't negate the fact that they would still be right in their criticisms.


That's better.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Triple H isn't that stupid.

[sunnytaker]

how about a Dusty finish (as making fun of the Rhodes is a secondary objective of the Corperation 2.0)? Bryan about to win, ref kod/distracted by shield member #1. shield #2 hold Bryan for shield #3 to hit, Bryan ducks, shield #3 hits orton, bryan rolls him up for the pin (or uses "that same move that he beat John Cena with!"). crowd goes wild for the new champ.

HHH's music hits and declares Orton the winner via DQ as he was struck by a member of the Shield (shows replay to official) meaning Bryan is disqualified before the pinfall could take place so as COO he's reversing the decision. steph nods in agreement behind him.

and no one comments on how replay gets it's one match a year where the replay "counts" and changes a ref's "official" decsion

[ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul]

Sept 13, 2013 14:03:33 GMT -5 JTH said:

Yeah, let's have our current top babyface get his ass kicked 3-1, 4-1, 5-1 spanning 7 straight shows, then we'll top it off having him lose fair and square at the PPV.

GENIUS!

From a logical standpoint it can work.

As someone else pointed out, have him him beat himself. There is a difference between a clean win, and a clean win after you just dominated the person the whole time. I.e. Bryan will be fine provided he isn't squashed. And the numbers game doesn't count. And it helps that Orton has a 'sudden' finisher, and he has been in the WWE long enough for there to be an aura around the RKO.

So, yes, it could be done in a fashion that doesn't harm D-Bry. Use it to help paint him into a corner. The tipping point of this feud is when he calls out the rest of the roster, calls them cowards.

Remember realistically, even if one where Bryan is getting dominated, now he has a 'sudden' finisher with his knee. This levels the playing field quite a bit in terms of 'at any moment a victory can happen.'

So the feud's natural progression if there is a no interference match, a stipulation that MUST come from Randy, as he feels his pride/ego threaten by HHH and Corporate's lack of faith in his ability to 'get the job done' on his own, and Bryan goading him on over and over should definitely be a theme. In the pay off play up the fact that either can win at any point with their finishers, focus on that point. Even push Bryan as kind of forsaking the more technical stuff due to his anger/frustration.

Have him kick out of an RKO, in the 'wont lay down mode.' Build the tension up in the match, and then do a finishing sequence of Knee, counter to go for RKO, then counter to YES!Lock.