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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 9, 2013 16:13:29 GMT -5
I don't see it as them undermining WCW or its title. The entire time, Flair was running around saying he was the REAL World's Champion. In essence, he was saying that he, the WCW Title and WCW as a whole were better than WWF. He was negating the importance of WWF and its titles, saying that where he came from had superior wrestlers and such. And THEN, he backed it the f*** up by winning THEIR title. So no...I don't see how they were trashing WCW in this instance. And as for Bret and the Screwjob...f*** him. He refused to lose in Montreal. That'd be like Daniel Bryan refusing to lose in Tampa. f*** that. REAL world's champion, as opposed to Lex Luger, the current holder of the WCW title who didn't beat Flair for it and was having trouble winning over WCW crowds at that time. Given Vince's attitude to other companies, I have a hard time believing the hyping of the fact Flair had the WCW belt was done purely to build up Flair without any thought toward WCW and Luger. WCW saw no benefit from this supposed building up of their title, how could they while Flair was under WWF contract?
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 9, 2013 21:44:15 GMT -5
Both were done with the intention of undermining the opposition and devaluing one of their belts, in the case of Medusa, it was the (then largely defunct) women's belt, and in the case of the WCW belt, while they didn't crap on the belt Flair was holding, they certainly were trying to undermine WCW and their current champion, Lex Luger. Still amuses me that people give Ric Flair a pass because Jim Herd was mean to him, while Bret deserved everything he got because... reasons. I don't see it as them undermining WCW or its title. The entire time, Flair was running around saying he was the REAL World's Champion. In essence, he was saying that he, the WCW Title and WCW as a whole were better than WWF. He was negating the importance of WWF and its titles, saying that where he came from had superior wrestlers and such. And THEN, he backed it the f*** up by winning THEIR title. So no...I don't see how they were trashing WCW in this instance. And as for Bret and the Screwjob...f*** him. He refused to lose in Montreal. That'd be like Daniel Bryan refusing to lose in Tampa. f*** that. Or it would be like HBK refusing to job to anyone, ever. Oh yeah....
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Post by Mrs. Potato Dick on Oct 9, 2013 22:17:27 GMT -5
I don't see it as them undermining WCW or its title. The entire time, Flair was running around saying he was the REAL World's Champion. In essence, he was saying that he, the WCW Title and WCW as a whole were better than WWF. He was negating the importance of WWF and its titles, saying that where he came from had superior wrestlers and such. And THEN, he backed it the f*** up by winning THEIR title. So no...I don't see how they were trashing WCW in this instance. And as for Bret and the Screwjob...f*** him. He refused to lose in Montreal. That'd be like Daniel Bryan refusing to lose in Tampa. f*** that. Or it would be like HBK refusing to job to anyone, ever. Oh yeah.... Hey, I'm not defending Shawn at all. Don't read me wrong. I'm just saying that, at least in this one case, Bret wasn't any different.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 9, 2013 22:28:18 GMT -5
Or it would be like HBK refusing to job to anyone, ever. Oh yeah.... Hey, I'm not defending Shawn at all. Don't read me wrong. I'm just saying that, at least in this one case, Bret wasn't any different. Well, on the surface, I agree, but the detailsreally make me disagree. 1. If Bret wasn't leaving, really think he'd lose that match? I can't be in Bret's head, but I think, right up until the bell, he was thinking of the match as though he wasn't leaving. The angle made the most sense for him to win in Montreal and lose elsewhere. I think by refusing to lose that match, for storyline purposes and because he was pissed at Shawn as well, really was the best for the storyline. It's not like he didn't propose outs. He offered to lose to Mankind, Shamrock, Rock, Brawler at MSG, he just wanted to protect that one storyline. The Canadian hero, coming into Canada to defend what he said. The dynamic was different here because he was a face at home and a heel in the US. By using real life borders to define the heel and the face, it makes it different than any other storyline that's really been. 2. Had that clause stating he got to decide how to go out. Now, they fought over what that meant, but Bret certainly felt him having the reasonable decision to go out of Montreal was champion was reasonable. He was still offering to drop the belt in Canada, the next night, by handing it over, while lame, but by then everyone knew. Normally, yeah, it seems unreasonable, but I can justify it, I think.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 11, 2013 7:46:14 GMT -5
The Flair thing is cool as well. Must of been really weird for fans of both companies at the time. It was surreal. And Flair actually holds the distinction of being the only WWF/NWA Champion simultaneously in pro wrestling history at Royal Rumble'92, since the NWA did not formally strip Naitch of the title until June of the same year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 8:47:30 GMT -5
The Alundra "Medusa" Blayze/Women's title trashing (from 1995) in current terms would be like if ODB came out on WWE TV and trashed the Knockouts title. When you have relatively NO women's division to speak of, does it really make a difference?
I personally think Eric Bischoff sold it as more that it actually was, which sounds like something Eric would do. (That promo with Sid basically "forcing us to remember" that he had the scissors incident with Arn Anderson, then retelling the joke like a bad stand-up comedian whose top punchline went no-sold.)
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Oct 12, 2013 20:07:22 GMT -5
The Flair thing is cool as well. Must of been really weird for fans of both companies at the time. It was surreal. And Flair actually holds the distinction of being the only WWF/NWA Champion simultaneously in pro wrestling history at Royal Rumble'92, since the NWA did not formally strip Naitch of the title until June of the same year. Wow, somehow, despite the massive pit of wrestling knowledge taking up valuable brain real estate, I didn't actually realise Flair was technically dual champ. That's really freakin' cool to learn, despite the fact that I only know 2 people in real life who that would impress
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 20:21:44 GMT -5
It was surreal. And Flair actually holds the distinction of being the only WWF/NWA Champion simultaneously in pro wrestling history at Royal Rumble'92, since the NWA did not formally strip Naitch of the title until June of the same year. Wow, somehow, despite the massive pit of wrestling knowledge taking up valuable brain real estate, I didn't actually realise Flair was technically dual champ. That's really freakin' cool to learn, despite the fact that I only know 2 people in real life who that would impress Is that actually correct, though? From what I can tell, the NWA officially stripped Flair of the title on September 8th 1991.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Oct 12, 2013 23:40:18 GMT -5
Wow, somehow, despite the massive pit of wrestling knowledge taking up valuable brain real estate, I didn't actually realise Flair was technically dual champ. That's really freakin' cool to learn, despite the fact that I only know 2 people in real life who that would impress Is that actually correct, though? From what I can tell, the NWA officially stripped Flair of the title on September 8th 1991. Jim Herd stripped him of the NWA title in September of 1991, although it's questionable whether he actually had the authority to do so. While he was in charge of WCW and WCW essentially controlled the title, technically it was the NWA Board of Directors call on whether or not someone should be recognized as an NWA Champion or stripped of the title, which they did not officially do until June of 92. While this is mostly retcons and fan theories, what's largely accepted kayfabe wise is that after Turner bought out Crockett and created WCW, Ric Flair was technically a dual World Champion, both the WCW World Champion and NWA World Champion, and that both Championships were represented by the same title belt, the Big Gold Belt. When Flair left WCW, Herd stripped him of the WCW portion of the Championship, then had a match to determine a new WCW World Champion between Lex Luger and Barry Windham, with a new belt created to represent the WCW World Championship. Flair remained the NWA World Champion even though neither he nor anyone else at the time called him that and the Big Gold Belt continued to represent the NWA World Champion. He was officially stripped of the NWA side of the Championship in June and the title remained vacant until Chono won it in a tournament in Japan in August.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 0:01:18 GMT -5
I see. I was under the impression that he was stripped of the WCW title right when he left the company and stripped of the NWA title a few months later when he actually started wrestling for the WWF. I thought it took the NWA board of directors a while to settle on crowning a new champion at the G1 Climax but the decision to strip Flair happened much sooner, guess not.
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